Heating and lighting...Too much conflicting information!!!

[starmaiden]

I also posted this topic on the Crab Street Journal forums, but I would like HCA folks input as well:

Someone please help me! [smilie=crybaby.gif] I've been working so hard to get things right for my little guys since I got back from Texas and found one dead!

I'm trying to switch to lights as a heat source since my UTH is too big and I want to create a day/night cycle for my hermies. I got some clamp lamps and 150 watt bulbs for my 30 gallon tank, and temps ran around 72 degrees in the middle of the tank all afternoon. I'm not sure what the substrate temps are because the probe thermometer I bought was broken and I will have to take it back and exchange it, but the sand feels cool to the touch. Humidity has been stable at 80% all day.

The problem is the weather varies so much in the summer here in the NW. Today was only 63F, but highs several days ago were in the low 90s. I was looking into getting a UTH and side mounting it as an additional heat source to raise temps a little more for winter, but read that some feel it's useless on the side. I thought of hanging a florecent plant type light over the length of the tat and putting some sort of heat glo bulb as an ambient heat source for winter temps when needed and started doing some research on wattages when I came across the disheartening opinion that lamps of over 40 watts burned hermies!

Now I'm so confused I don't know what to do! [smilie=confused.gif]

This is just a sample of the conflicting info that I've gotten about heating and lighting from my research today...

* Crabs like temps from 70F to 75F
AND
Crabs like temps from 80F-85F and you shouldn't let your temps fall below 80F.

* UTHs are good when mounted underneith, bad when mounted on the side because they don't warm the substrate
AND
UTHs are bad when mounted underneith, good when mounted on the side because crabs dig to get cool, not the other way 'round.

* Thermostats on UTHs are good because they help maintain constant tank temps
AND
Thermostats are bad because they turn the UTH on and off and what if a hermie buries itself by the UTH when its turned off and gets overheated when the thermostat turns the UTH back on?

* You should never use lights because it lowers humidity, crabs are nocturnal and don't like bright lights
AND
Crabs like to bask in sun lamps and need day/night cycles.

* 150 watt bulbs are fine for large tanks
AND
You should only use a 10-15 watt bulb. Anything over 40 watts for the largest of tanks will burn your hermies.

Someone Help Me. [smilie=pull_hair.gif]

[starmaiden]

I just figured out part of my problems! Whew! My Flukers temperature guage was busted! I just knew there had to be a problem when I kept getting higher and higher wattages of bulbs yet my temps were still staying too low! I put a 60 watt bulb in my 30 gallon tank and voila! a perfect 77F directly under the light! Now I can get some sleep!

[Guest]

I still would be interested in the answers though starmaiden since I have been thinking about heating sources for winter also.

Sorry to hear about your hermie's passing

[BAB]

Awww... So sorry to hear about your crabby friend! That's always a hard thing to come back to.

As for your confusion... questions... been there, done that! HAHA... some of it is personal preference, but I'll give you my take on it.


* Crabs like temps from 70F to 75F
AND
Crabs like temps from 80F-85F and you shouldn't let your temps fall below 80F.

I say keep temps between 72-80 for a good range. Lower can cause some crabs to shiver... but not much and higher can always try and cook. They get ALL these temps (and a lot more) in the wild though so don't panic unless one temp becomes a long term thing in your tank... and then check your gauges before panicing.

* UTHs are good when mounted underneith, bad when mounted on the side because they don't warm the substrate
AND
UTHs are bad when mounted underneith, good when mounted on the side because crabs dig to get cool, not the other way 'round.

I do not like UTH's. I found them difficult to work with. Sand is NOT heated in the wild from underneath usually. They DO have a tendenacy to crack tanks (over time and sometimes it's only an older tank). I just didn't care for them. They really don't hear anything on the side of a tank except that side of the tank too. I've tested that.

* Thermostats on UTHs are good because they help maintain constant tank temps
AND
Thermostats are bad because they turn the UTH on and off and what if a hermie buries itself by the UTH when its turned off and gets overheated when the thermostat turns the UTH back on?

It depends on the person here... personal preference is everything... what's tried, true and tested by you may not hold up in court with someone else. Once again, I do not like UTH's. I don't like the thermostat idea on a UTH either because of the second statement. I have cooked a crab before and it was not a pleasant thing... or pleasant feeling from me knowing I'd done it. sigh... that was a long time ago... still upsets me though.

* You should never use lights because it lowers humidity, crabs are nocturnal and don't like bright lights
AND
Crabs like to bask in sun lamps and need day/night cycles.

Personal preference... but also it's becoming the norm to use lighting with crabs anymore. I use an overhead lighting system. Yes, humidity is an issue so I've boosted that in my tank with other methods. Bubbler pools, DIY humidifiers, LARGER pools, susbstrate that holds humidity better, etc are all GREAT ways to over come the humidity issue. Plus with overhead lighting I feel like the environment is more natural. The crabs are heated by the sun in the wild and the sand is also heated by the sun in the wild.

* 150 watt bulbs are fine for large tanks
AND
You should only use a 10-15 watt bulb. Anything over 40 watts for the largest of tanks will burn your hermies.

I use the 1 watt per gallon idea... I think... I can't remember how it goes now? But basically I have a 20 gallon with 1 15watt moon glo and 1 15watt sun glo to heat it. Works like a charm. The sun glo is on a timer for day hours and the moon glo is just on 24/7.

You'll find your favorite way to do it and what works for you. I hope you have no more losses during the trying though. I know that's not fun.

[Guest]

Thank you for the info BAB!!!!

Now I am worried about using uth for my crabbies, how much did the lamp set up cost to get? Got to be cost conscious my hubby already thinks I am a nut for starting up with the crabs anyway but he was the first to express concern when the little guys weren't coming up

Will it work the same for a larger tank? I just got a tank off of craigs list they said was a 100 gal tank but I think its more of a 75 gal tank from its dimensions. Hopefully I can get that set up soon. Its not urgent right now since I have 3 crabs but I would like to expand my little crab family since I know they are social guys.

Starmaiden, I went to petpourri during one of the days it was like 90 degrees and the crabitat they had only had a humidity of 25!!!! I told one of the clerks there and was told it was ok since they bathe them daily and mist them down so they regulate humidity in their shell!!! I didn't want to argue and didn't know what else to say but I felt so bad for those crabbies!! I wanted to take em all home with me

[DustAndEchoes]

the only reason i have uth's (a small one on each side of my tank) is because the lights were not enough when it got really cold in the winter. I unplugged them in march and have not looked back lol.

[BAB]

Now I am worried about using uth for my crabbies, how much did the lamp set up cost to get? Got to be cost conscious my hubby already thinks I am a nut for starting up with the crabs anyway but he was the first to express concern when the little guys weren't coming up

Will it work the same for a larger tank?

Don't worry too much... if it's working for ya now then it'd working. I'm not out to make anyone panic and go buy a lighting system either. Just giving my perspective... cuz I remember how difficult it was to weed through all this myself.

As for cost... my ESU Bilight was 29.99 at PetSmart. (They honored the online pricing for me. All you do is print it off and take it to the store and they honor it.)

The ESU bilight only holds up to 80watts of lighting though so that may be too small for a 100g tank. It could be perfect though too... because lighting does heat further then UTH... so I've found... I dunno though, that would be something to test. I do intend to use it on my 55g tank. I might need something more as it's only 30 inches long or so and won't cover the whole tank. I would definately need to increase the bulb wattage for the 55g. I've not worked it all out yet. Each nightglo/moonglo and dayglo/sunglo bulb costs anywhere from $6-$10... depending on wattage size and stores.

Happy Crabbing!!

[Guest]

Well I haven't actually used the uth yet, I just got one since I knew I would need a heating source soon for them and right now I am using a 20 gal (estimating since got it at a 2nd hand shop) tank.

I have alot of work to do before I can use the large tank, I still need to get it out of my car!! lol its so big and heavy and I want to get a stand for it. It will be so nice though cause I can do so much for them with that type of space!! Hehehee

[Guest]

I copied this from the coenobita.org website. It is run by a HCA member Chestersmom who is working with proffessionals in researching Hermit Care. Vet(s) and Professor/biologist... I think.


"Temperature & Humidity:

You should have gauges for both heat and humidity in your tank. Please refer to the Essential Products List for further details on the equipment you can use to keep optimal heat and humidity ranges in your tank. Please keep in mind that temperature and humidity ranges are to fluctuate within the stated ranges below. The ranges are the exact temp/humidity levels that hermit crabs are known to have sustained life without stresses or death for a reasonable amount of time in captivity. Please refer to the Special Considerations FAQ relating to the handing exceptions for C. perlatus (Strawberry crabs) and C. brevimanus (Indonesian crabs)

Recommended Ranges:

Temperature: 72 - 84 degrees Fahrenheit
Relative humidity: 74 - 82%

Stagnant or still air is not good! We like to stay within +/- 2% of the stated ranges. Additionally, it is good to have more than one micro climate within the tank too. This will help individual crabs better meet their personal preferences for these environmental factors. They like to have a change, and sometimes prefer a cooler/warmer, moister/less humid space to meet their needs. They live in a "closed" environment in captivity. That means we have to provide the differences for them since they can't leave!"

To read the rest check out the link below. She talks about different types of heating compaired to the tank size... I recommend you check it out.
http://www.coenobita.org/modules.php?na ... age&pid=16

[BAB]

Awesome stuff!! Great resource!!

Thanks for sharing that! I just kinda pull things from memory... nice to see it all researched and stated better.

[starmaiden]

I guess the trick is to keep making adjustments until you find something that works for you and your particular situation. On another forum, someone also mentioned when reviewing my crabitat conditions regarding Waynette's death that I wasn't providing a daytime/nighttime light cycle for my hermies, my temps and humidity were fluctuating too much, and my substrate was too wet.Thus I began my quest to fine tune my crabitat conditions.

[starmaiden]

Starmaiden, I went to petpourri during one of the days it was like 90 degrees and the crabitat they had only had a humidity of 25!!!! I told one of the clerks there and was told it was ok since they bathe them daily and mist them down so they regulate humidity in their shell!!! I didn't want to argue and didn't know what else to say but I felt so bad for those crabbies!! I wanted to take em all home with me

I know, Petpourri has the worst conditions I've ever seen. I got my first 3 crabs from Petpourri and rescued Cy from there as well. At first, I didn't know their conditions were so bad, but then when I learned more, I lectured them for an hour one day about how to keep their crabs and the importance of proper temp and humidity. That's when they started misting the tanks and bathing the crabs because at first they weren't even doing that! I don't shop there anymore because I've found that they are pricey and don't have a very large selection.

[Guest]

I just went there hoping to find some other species of crabs, although I am not sure I would recognize one if I saw one.

I am hoping one day to get some strawberry crabs they are so pretty!! I know I would have to get my crabitat all stable and all but I was hoping one of the stores here would have one. It was hot and I have never been in there so I thought I would check it out.

[starmaiden]

Here's the solution I came up with:

For the 30 gallon tank: 2 clamp lamps with 60 watt bulbs, one for day, one for night.

For the 15 gallon tank: 2 clamp lamps with 50 watt bulbs, one for day, one for night.

I'm turning the lights on and off by hand, but eventually want to get a timer. I used clamp lamps because those were cheapest and I could also play around with placement too. If eventually I chose to get the ESU lights, I can use the clamp lamps for my 3 ISO tanks. I also bought some lower wattage bulbs for when the temps rose again. My temps are 76 directly under the lights.

My humidity has been 80% all evening in both tanks. I added a layer of dry sand on top of the moist substrate in both tanks and that has really helped bring the humidity under control. I have left the lid off my 15 gallon tank all day to let it air out because the substrate was so damp, but the humidity is still holding at 80%. I imagine once the substrate dries and I put the lid back on, I will have to adjust my light wattages for that tank once again. I also purchased a few large natural sponges to place inside once the tanks dry out and humidity starts to drop.

Swtlygrace, I wouldn't worry too much about your UTH. The main reason I didn't want to use a UTH on my 30 gallon was that the tank was second hand and there was one rated too high stuck to the bottom already. It would be difficult for me to replace until the next deep clean unless I stuck one to the side.

When winter comes, I will probably have to make some more adjustments, but for now I am ready to quit worrying about all this already and just enjoy my hermies again. The past few days have not been very pleasant crabbing! I think if I were a crab I would be missing a few legs!

[starmaiden]

I just went there hoping to find some other species of crabs, although I am not sure I would recognize one if I saw one.

I searched for months for other species besides PPs in this area and the only place I found was the new PetSmart by Everett Mall carries ruggies. They all micros to teenys and are only $4.59 in the non-painted shell tank. However, I bought the last three rugs in the tank when I was there a few days ago because conditions were so sad and I'm not sure how often they get fresh shipments. You could call and ask when their next shipment of hermit crabs is coming. Maybe you'll even get lucky and find a cavi like crabber did!

As far as telling the rugs apart from the PPs in the same tank, its easy. Their BPs aren't purple! Here's a pic of what their BPs look like: