BIG problem with plants for the 'tat CHITIN EATING BACTERIA

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:11 pm

So, I was at my organic nursery today, and was looking at some plants to add to the 'tat, and they very proudly told me that they had just gotten in some new fertilizer that they were going to start next week using on ALL their plants. They are getting crab meal, because of the high calcium, and because, GET THIS...

IT CONTAINS LOTS OF CHITIN EATING BACTERIA

Apparently, this is the hot new thing in organic gardening. These bacteria spread throughout the plants in which this fertilizer is used, and when we plant, or feed our crabs anything that was grown with it, we are introducing chitin eating bacteria. VERY VERY VERY BAD!!!!!!!!!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:42 pm

Okay, I have done my research, rather than just reacting, and the claims that it spreads to the plants is utter hogwash. Most forms of chitin eating bacteria are fairly anaerobic, and thus, will stay down in the soil, and if any has gotten on your food, a simple clean with a vegetable wash should be fine, as they'll be mostly dead already. Root vegetables may still be problematic, as may eathworms/castings from soil "amended" with the stuff.

BAB · Post by **BAB** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:07 am

Scared me there... glad that someone is doing research on these obscure things that I don't even have the mind to think of!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:56 pm

If it is in the soil... could we then transfer it to our tanks?

I wonder if the worm casting being sold for hermits has any of that in it... and how would we know?

What kind of problems would we start seeing in our crabs if they get some on them?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:22 pm

Okay, if it is in soil, then YES it can transfer. Most varieties of chitin eating bacteria are harmless, most live in digestive systems, allowing organisms to break down chitin. That's what allows crabs to eat their exos, as well as bugs and shrimp and such. The problem is that this Neptune's Harvest brand is marketing as AGGRESSIVELY killing insects, so I'm worried about these being the self-motile "gliding" form of the bacteria. Those are bad. Chitin eating bacteria are what cause the "black spots" shell disease, shell rot, etc etc. The other problem is that once a hole in the exo has gotten to the point where it has spread into the soft tissue below, the crab CANNOT molt. The exo sticks, and the crab dies. It affects females more heavily than males, and egg-heavy females most, or at least that is the case with lobsters. These are nasty pernicious bacteria that cannot be killed by baking or boiling, you have to be able to hold your temps at between 500 and 750 F for at least an hour to kill them. (Most actually harmful bacteria can't be killed by baking and boiling, by the way.) If they transfer to the crabs, you'll start having mass deaths, open infections on the crabs so forth and so on. One guy has a patent for controlling insects using worm castings that contain these bacteria, so I would say that worm casting transfer is a very real possiblity.
We need to be fairly careful. Chitin eating bacteria are what causes infections like Kathy's Indo has, and once they open the door, a host of parasites and bacteria move in, and then you're in a really bad way.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:14 pm

Thanks!

You always have great information.

I think I will just use plastic plants and skip the worm castings... well maybe a mangrove plant but they are grown in water.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:42 pm

That's pretty scary. I have been feeding my hermies fresh baby carrots daily on top of narnar's and HCA's staple foods/shrimps, etc. But thankfully I haven't seen black spots or anything. I also occasionally put in a shellfull of Tammy's organic worm casings, think I should stop giving it to them (along with the carrots)?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:21 pm

Boo for plastic plants!!! The benefits of live plants I think really outweigh the possible complications. Check out my blog for pics of my new planted 55

I like plants, and I think that providing a balanced ecosystem is going to in the long run help keep down the populations of bad bacteria

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:50 pm

chicagohermiemom wrote: I also occasionally put in a shellfull of Tammy's organic worm casings, think I should stop giving it to them (along with the carrots)?

yikes, now I am wondering the same thing. Any input anyone.....?

HERMEZ · Post by **HERMEZ** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:02 pm

FYI Tammy said I could post this when I told her about this thread

Luckily my supplier doesn't use anything like this...I called her today just to double check. One of the things that makes her castings so unique is that the worms are fed a special "volcanic ash" which contains over 70 different trace minerals and elements in addition to compost

Feel free to copy and paste any of this on the forums if you feel it might be beneficial. Our castings are in no way amended with any thing like this...they are purely organic worm castings and hermit crabs devour them over any other food we've tried!

Thanks and I sure hope people don't misinterpret this for their crabs sake!
Tammy

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:11 pm

Thanks Herm-ez! My crabbies sure do love that stuff!! They would have been really upset if I took it away from them

HERMEZ · Post by **HERMEZ** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:11 am

no problem--mine like it too

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:29 am

cisnegra wrote:Boo for plastic plants!!! The benefits of live plants I think really outweigh the possible complications. Check out my blog for pics of my new planted 55 I like plants, and I think that providing a balanced ecosystem is going to in the long run help keep down the populations of bad bacteria

Live plants in my tank wasn't something I ever thought was realistic... I always worried about root mold and the crabs being to ruff and killing plants. I have started reading your Crabbing Philosophy's and will read it all as I think it is VERY interesting and I am very curious about your Open System of crab keeping that eliminates the deep clean.

**apologies if that is not a correct representation of your article... I just started it and wanted to finish this post so I can go and read the rest... thought I was just going to look at some pics and was drawn in by the text.

Sorry a bit off topic:
The part about moving their food has the wheels turning... if it is addressed in your article I apoloize but wanted to ask... My crabs seem to prefer the fresh water bowl... I made the salt water bowl the bigger bowl and I hardly see them in it. I wanted to switch the water bowls so the fresh is in the bigger bowl but worried that it would cause some sort of problem... is it the same with food? Or since the Ocean doesn't move would it be confusing to suddenly have salt where there was once fresh and vice versa?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:08 am

It is good to know that Tammy's castings are safe. Those are the ones that I use, and I emailed her too, you just beat me to posting

Feathers- Honestly, I think that changing water bowls would be a source of novelty, not really a big stressor. My guys tend to like the salt better, so it's the bigger one, plus, the larger size accomodated live sand, detrivores, macroalage, and mangrove. My fresh side just has to accomodate some plants. I say, by all means, make the larger water dish whatever type the crabs like better