Molting near heater and substrate issues

lyrem591 · Post by **lyrem591** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:56 pm

Hi all,

I'm not sure if this is an emergency, but since it may be...

Almost a month ago, I adopted two hermit crabs (a small E and a medium PP) that had been used for a simple experiment at my former college and needed homes. I am new to crab care, and tried to set up their home as best I could with the instructions I first encountered. Their substrate is a little more than three inches deep, and the day after I got them Mona Lisa, the PP, burrowed presumably to molt. She is near, but not directly above (I think) the under tank heater. right by the edge I'm pretty sure, but hard to check and don't want to disturb her by messingn with tank.

Since getting them I have been reading more and more about hermit crabs and trying to upgrade their crabitat as best I can. I recently encountered the information that an undertank heater can "cook" a molting crab. I know that Mona Lisa is okay and not cooked, because (unfortunately) she is so shallowly buried that I can see her shell when I lift her log to sprtiz the substrate occasionally (I only do this when it is dark, and use the light of their warming moon bulb to see). I don't know if she will be more vulnerable to "cooking" when she goes through the squishy phase of molting.

So here is my main question: should I turn off and leave off the under tank heater til she finishes molting and I can move it? Or is changing her environment suddenly a bad call? They do have a warming lamp, so she and Jean ralphio shouldn't freeze, but I assume she chose Her location because she liked it and I'm just not sure what to do.

Also, I am becoming worried about my E. He seems a little sluggish, and I am worried he is either lonely or putting off molting because he wants deeper/better substrate. Is there a way I can carefully add substrate to half the tank? I was thinking I could use a temporary retaining wall of cardboard next to Mona Lisa so that I can clear out and pile up some new sand and EE, but it seems really risky. The alternative is to wait til Mona Lisa comes up and move them both into a bigger tank that better allows for taller substrate and other crabby improvements, or make a new tank and move Jean Ralphio ASAP (and find him an E Buddy). My only objection to moving Jean Ralphio now is I would need to get some duplicate supplies, like a heating lamp etc, and I'm hoping to save money if possible. But I also want him to be okay

Any advice would be really appreciated, and sorry if most of this isn't emergency level. I'm just worried and want to make sure I'm taking care of them as best I can.

YYWW · Post by **YYWW** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:07 pm

Crabs bury because they need to be in a safe and dark place to molt, not because they need to be warm. Relocate the UTH asap.
You can sprinkle handfuls of sub at a time until you're deepened up. Rushing to set up a dup CAN get expensive. Sprinkle first, then see if you can catch something on Craigslist or Kijiji. That way you can either land a good deal, or take your time upgrading

Crabbers unite!!!

lyrem591 · Post by **lyrem591** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:23 pm

YYWW wrote:Crabs bury because they need to be in a safe and dark place to molt, not because they need to be warm. Relocate the UTH asap.
You can sprinkle handfuls of sub at a time until you're deepened up. Rushing to set up a dup CAN get expensive. Sprinkle first, then see if you can catch something on Craigslist or Kijiji. That way you can either land a good deal, or take your time upgrading

Crabbers unite!!!

Thanks YYWW. I've turned off the under tank heater since they have a heat lamp as a secondary source of warmth. I think I could maybe get it out from under there if I slid the tank gently to the edge of the table they are on, and peeled it off, but I'd be worried about jostling her too much. Petco has their $1 per gallon sale going on, so I may just cave and set a new tank up and the 10 gallon Mona Lisa is in can be ISO for the future/until she comes out. Thank you for Kijiji as a resource, never heard of it til now!

As far as the substrate goes, I guess my concern with that method is that Mona Lisa is partially exposed and not in a proper cave. I could sprinkle substrate on top of the half log she is being protected by I suppose, and just assume she'll find her way out when she is ready? Not sure if that's okay.

YYWW · Post by **YYWW** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:26 pm

Kijiji is Canadian or something

Don't bury any crab, ever. Can you put a hide over her? You can just put a plastic cup over her if needed.
Can we double check your conditions? Answer all the Help Request Template questions and we can get the whole picture at one time

viewtopic.php?t=46102

Crabbers unite!!!

ETA: if your sub is sandcastle consistency, you won't be able to jostle her unless you dropped the tank, which would probably break the tank before any jostling would be enough to matter.

lyrem591 · Post by **lyrem591** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:55 am

YYWW wrote:Kijiji is Canadian or something
Don't bury any crab, ever. Can you put a hide over her? You can just put a plastic cup over her if needed.
Can we double check your conditions? Answer all the Help Request Template questions and we can get the whole picture at one time

viewtopic.php?t=46102

Crabbers unite!!!

ETA: if your sub is sandcastle consistency, you won't be able to jostle her unless you dropped the tank, which would probably break the tank before any jostling would be enough to matter.

Hope this helps. Mona Lisa has a half log over her, but it's a really shallow one so it covers her cave. I realized I can get a higher wattage bulb, which I should be able to use to heat the new and old tank at the same time, so I'm getting a tank ready with better substrate for the E and some new friends to move into soon, which will leave the molting crab in the old tank for now. The below questions are answered for that 10g tank, I mixed much better substrate for the new tank set up than what's described below.

1. What kind of substrate is used in your tank and how deep is it? Sand and coconut fiber, mostly coconut fiber where the crab is buried. 3.5 inches.

2. Do you have gauges in the tank to measure temperature and humidity? If so, where are they located and what temperature and humidity do they usually read? Center, about an inch above the substrate. 75F, 75-80% humidity.

3. Is a heat source used in the tank? If so, what?
Mini halogen red "moon glow" bulb, 25 watt.

4. What types of water are available (fresh or salt) and how is the water treated (what brands of dechlorinator or salt mix and what ratio is used to mix it)? Zoo Med hermit crab water treatment, 2 drops per cup. Just switched to instant ocean, ran out of the zoo med salt water mix 1 tsp.

5. What kinds of food do you feed and how often is it replaced? Organic soil diet supplement from hermit crab patch and a variety of their powdered food mixes. Changed every few days. Occasionally adding peanut butter, and fresh produce cut into pieces.

6. How long have you had the crab and what species is it, if known? 1 month. Purple Pincer.

7. What type of housing are the crabs kept in, what size is it and what kind of lid is on the housing? 10 gallon tank, mesh lid with packing tape added to cover all but the heat lamp spot.

8. How many crabs are in the tank and about how large are they? 2, medium and small.

9. How many extra shells are usually kept in the tank, if any? 6 (need to get more with more appropriate opening shapes for the ecuadorian).

10. Have there been any fumes or chemicals near the crabitat recently? Shouldn't be. I use method cleaning supplies, but I've been trying to spray them on the rag far away from their crabitat.

11. How often do you clean the tank and how? I've scraped off the top layer a couple times, but the E doesn't seem to be pooping much. Not using any cleaners. Just hot water and paper towels for the bowls at this point.

12. Are sponges used in the water dish? If so, how are they cleaned? I did have one, but got rid of it when I read about bacterial growth.

13. Has anything new been added to your crabitat recently? Beaked moss, shower shelf, new shells, and a shelf stand with a coconut hut.

Post by **aussieJJDude** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:20 am

First off, welcome to HCA! I really hope you like it here.
I totally going to say the complete opposite to everyone else -

-, but you mentioned that you can see the top of the crab's shell in question. I would just dig her up - not like you're going to do much digging when you can see her shell- and get that UTH out from under the tank. I heard - and witnessed - to many horror stories of crabs becoming cooked/liquefied due to the heat put out from the heat mat.

Substrate is a good insulator, so it would be really hot down there! While taking out the UTH, it would be a good idea to increase the level of substrate so the crab can dig down safely. I personally believe that she is just destressing not moulting and wil be fine if you dig her up.
If she is in fact moulting she could become a victim to her tank mate so IMO; it better to dig her up now and ISO in a small container - like a take away container. Plus that way, you don't have to chance of your other crab digging down in a similar position - or right on top - and becoming liquid before you know it.
Just do what you feel most comfortable with. One thing that many crabbers learn over their time with there crabbies is to trust your gut. Sharing a personal story, many times I have dug up a moulter as I had a strong gut feeling that something was wrong - eg, my first moulter was moulting when the tank was flooded! - and to this day, believe I had save that crab.

Digging up moulters won't kill them, as long as they have a place to stay - preferably in the dark - some of their exoskeleton/cuttlefish bone they will do fine.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The answers to the questions look really good, the only things I can think of is adding some more variety to their diets (look here and here for some ideas), adding some more heat if possible or insulating. E's can be a little bit sensitive to "cooler" temperatures and do better when it is over 80F.

hermieluv1 · Post by **hermieluv1** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:02 am

I have to agree with AussieJjdude...if you can see the shell, she isn't molting, just destrssing.

lyrem591 · Post by **lyrem591** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:47 am

Oh! I thought maybe she could be molting in her shell. Or waiting to molt? Not clear on why her being on her shell means she isn't molting, though I appreciate the advice. 1 month seems like too long to be distressing from what I've read.

I've moved her tankmate to another tank I set up so she is on her own now, not at risk of being eaten. There is a heating lamp heating the area she is at but its at a good distance so surface temp is around 80 at the hottest part. Under tank Hester is off.

Thank you for the food recs! Given my current situation, are you saying it would be best to dig her up, give her better substrate, and then put her back into her ISO tank? I wasn't planning on isolating my crabs when molting, mostly because I am new to them and scared of messing with their molting mojo, but I've also read many horror stories :/

hermieluv1 · Post by **hermieluv1** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:01 am

When they go down to .log, all you will see is a mound of disturbed sub. When they dig to molt, they shovel the sand behind them to hide their location from predators.

When they dig to sleep or distress, they either leave the hole open, like a cave, or just since down I go the top layer.
That is how it goes in my tank anyway.

I just put 3 New ones in last night,and 2 dug down . There was no mound, they just snuggled I to the surface. They came out around mid night.

On the other hand, in my 55, I do I d a big ? oh d of sand by a plant, and I have 1 less crab, so I know someone is molting.

lyrem591 · Post by **lyrem591** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:43 am

Ah I see. The reason I have seen her shell is that she is in shallow substrate under a log. I didn't know how deep it needed to be when I set it up. She's pretty cozy in there, the log acts as the top of her little cave.

HCA: Hermit Crab Association