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Re: Hi everyone, been a while

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:26 pm
by CrabMater
Hey GB, I misted her and wiped all that grit off w a moist tissue once I was sure she wasn't going to scuttle out of that shell. She soaked her abdomen before she put that shell on. I saw her in the dish.
She's pretty clean now, sitting next to a dish w both msw and fresh dechlorinated water.
Unfortunately she's not moving much. I have been misting and making sure her water is ok. She sits in the same spot all day. Not even sure she's able to move. I feel like this is it. What ever it was may have gotten the best of her.
Her antenna is still moving so I know she's alive. But I'm just keeping her safe. I feel she will pass soon.
I don't even know what happened to put her in this spot. I have been over the emergency template 100x and nothing stands out.
John is still topside. He was at the water dish and switched BACK into the tiny brown turbo he first put on almost a yr ago. He has been sleeping a lot but definitely is not as bad as Diana. He sleeps inside his shell and moves around at least 1x a day. Diana has been in the same spot for nearly 2 days. I am gently moving her so she doesn't get any mold from food or just moisture build up.
Right before bed I picked her up and she nearly tumbled out of her shell. I don't think she has the strength to hold it any more. I gently put her back in a bit and placed her by the water dish. I saw her antenna moving so I just misted gently and covered her tank for the night.
Funny how attached we get to these little ones.

Re: Hi everyone, been a while

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:26 am
by CrabMater
Emergency template

What kind of substrate is used in your tank and how deep is it?
Ecco earth. Hospital tank has 2" . Main tank has 6"

2. Do you have gauges in the tank to measure temperature and humidity? If so, where are they located and what temperature and humidity do they usually read?
Main tank is 27C +82-86% rH - hospital tank is not gauged but walls are misty. RH in NYC = 85%

3. Is a heat source used in the tank? If so, what?
MAIN TANK: BACK mounted . Runs 75% of tank- unplugged it is very hot in NYC right now.
Hospital tank not heated. Again, it's sweltering, she's in no danger of being cold.

4. What types of water are available (fresh or salt) and how is the water treated (what brands of dechlorinator or salt mix and what ratio is used to mix it)?

Both types. I use Ocean Prime for MSW & API delchloronator for FW

5. What kinds of food do you feed and how often is it replaced?
They get FD worms and larva. Plus fresh fruit , HB eggs w shell and veggies. All skins and leaves removed to prevent accidental pesticide poisoning.


6. How long have you had the crab and what species is it, if known?
PP since May 2016

7. Has your crab molted, and how long ago did it happen?
Over a dozen molts between them. Last molt was in June for John. May for Diana

8. What type of housing are the crabs kept in, what size is it and what kind of lid is on the housing?
40 G breeder (old glass Aquarium) w screen reinforced lid. Acetate over the holes to hold in humidity. Towel on top as extra layer of protection.

9. How many crabs are in the tank and about how large are they?
2 crabs wearing 1.2" turbos

10. How many extra shells are usually kept in the tank, if any? 15 extra shells in a range of sizes.

11. Have there been any fumes or chemicals near the crabitat recently?
No

12. How often do you clean the tank and how?
I spot clean. All food is on dishes off the sub. I do daily misting bc the tank is so big. I have not had any bacteria blooms.

13. Are sponges used in the water dish? If so, how are they cleaned? No sponges

14. Has anything new been added to your crabitat recently?
Nothing new.

15. Is there any other information you would like to share that might be helpful (anything that is regularly part of your crab care, playtime, bathing, etc.)?

I am hands off. I only go in there​ to add food/mist/ clean. I noticed Diana acting strangely after Dean went missing in April. I thought maybe he died during a molt and they ate him and got sick.

16. Please describe the emergency situation in detail.

On July 27 a PP that went down in May resurfaced w no shell on. It was drinking water. I managed to scoop it into a cup and place in a small tank w a variety of shells + water. After 36 hours she put a large shell on. Her strength seems to be leaving her now but she is definitely alive, reacts to slight breeze if I blow on her. I shined a light on her her legs retracted a bit but she is really hanging out of the shell.

Originally I thought she might be dying. Now I'm not sure if she is surface molting. Only because I know they go into a type of catonic state. And today I smelled the iodine smell of a molting crab. I will not pick her up anymore.

I have been covering the tank with a pillow case but letting a bit of light in. I think I will find a coconut hut and cover her so she can have real dark.
I'm not giving up on her.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
CM

Re: Hi everyone, been a while

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:59 am
by CrabMater
Update: Diana is still alive. I noticed she moved around From where she was. I pulled her shell down around her (it seems she not holding onto it well) then I put a cocohut over her w a piece of coral to hold it up bc the doorway is small and I don't want her getting caught. It will be very dark in there now.
The odd smell was NOT her but the piece of hb egg I put in there. I topped her water off and put a new egg. I was happy to see her moving about. It's supposed to be hot and humid for the next 10 days or so, perfect weather for this rehab bc I have no way of heating the tiny tank.
John was set up by the water dish in the main tank. I put a plate of food and a cap of water right next to him so he doesn't have to climb to get any of these things.
I have 2 months till my Surgery so I hope in that time there will be some resolution one way or the other.
CM

Re: Hi everyone, been a while

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:43 pm
by GotButterflies
I'm sorry that it has taken me some time to respond. I've been busy. GB for got butterflies
CrabMater wrote:Emergency template

What kind of substrate is used in your tank and how deep is it?
Ecco earth. Hospital tank has 2" . Main tank has 6"

GB: Is it moistened with msw or fw to be sandcastle consistency?

2. Do you have gauges in the tank to measure temperature and humidity? If so, where are they located and what temperature and humidity do they usually read?
Main tank is 27C +82-86% rH - hospital tank is not gauged but walls are misty. RH in NYC = 85%

GB: Doesn't really matter what it is in NYC, you need to know what it is in the tank. :) You can purchase Acurite guage from Walmart or Amazon if you are interested ;) They are $8, digital, run on batteries, and tell you temp and humidity currently as well as low and high for last 24 hours. https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B004K8RF10/ ... rd_w=eDqaP

3. Is a heat source used in the tank? If so, what?
MAIN TANK: BACK mounted . Runs 75% of tank- unplugged it is very hot in NYC right now.
Hospital tank not heated. Again, it's sweltering, she's in no danger of being cold.

4. What types of water are available (fresh or salt) and how is the water treated (what brands of dechlorinator or salt mix and what ratio is used to mix it)?

Both types. I use Ocean Prime for MSW & API delchloronator for FW

GB: What kind of MSW are you using? It needs to be for making a saltwater tank. For example: Instant Ocean, Red Sea.

5. What kinds of food do you feed and how often is it replaced?
They get FD worms and larva. Plus fresh fruit , HB eggs w shell and veggies. All skins and leaves removed to prevent accidental pesticide poisoning.

GB: I think this is your main problem. They really need more protein and calcium in their diet. Eggs,Worms and larvae aren't enough. Please check the following lists:
Safe food list: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=92557
Unsafe food list: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=92556
Food pyramid: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=92554


6. How long have you had the crab and what species is it, if known?
PP since May 2016

7. Has your crab molted, and how long ago did it happen?
Over a dozen molts between them. Last molt was in June for John. May for Diana

8. What type of housing are the crabs kept in, what size is it and what kind of lid is on the housing?
40 G breeder (old glass Aquarium) w screen reinforced lid. Acetate over the holes to hold in humidity. Towel on top as extra layer of protection.

9. How many crabs are in the tank and about how large are they?
2 crabs wearing 1.2" turbos

10. How many extra shells are usually kept in the tank, if any? 15 extra shells in a range of sizes.

11. Have there been any fumes or chemicals near the crabitat recently?
No

12. How often do you clean the tank and how?
I spot clean. All food is on dishes off the sub. I do daily misting bc the tank is so big. I have not had any bacteria blooms.

13. Are sponges used in the water dish? If so, how are they cleaned? No sponges

14. Has anything new been added to your crabitat recently?
Nothing new.

15. Is there any other information you would like to share that might be helpful (anything that is regularly part of your crab care, playtime, bathing, etc.)?

I am hands off. I only go in there​ to add food/mist/ clean. I noticed Diana acting strangely after Dean went missing in April. I thought maybe he died during a molt and they ate him and got sick.

16. Please describe the emergency situation in detail.

On July 27 a PP that went down in May resurfaced w no shell on. It was drinking water. I managed to scoop it into a cup and place in a small tank w a variety of shells + water. After 36 hours she put a large shell on. Her strength seems to be leaving her now but she is definitely alive, reacts to slight breeze if I blow on her. I shined a light on her her legs retracted a bit but she is really hanging out of the shell.

Originally I thought she might be dying. Now I'm not sure if she is surface molting. Only because I know they go into a type of catonic state. And today I smelled the iodine smell of a molting crab. I will not pick her up anymore.

I have been covering the tank with a pillow case but letting a bit of light in. I think I will find a coconut hut and cover her so she can have real dark.
I'm not giving up on her.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
CM

Re: Hi everyone, been a while

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:45 pm
by GotButterflies
CrabMater wrote:Update: Diana is still alive. I noticed she moved around From where she was. I pulled her shell down around her (it seems she not holding onto it well) then I put a cocohut over her w a piece of coral to hold it up bc the doorway is small and I don't want her getting caught. It will be very dark in there now.
The odd smell was NOT her but the piece of hb egg I put in there. I topped her water off and put a new egg. I was happy to see her moving about. It's supposed to be hot and humid for the next 10 days or so, perfect weather for this rehab bc I have no way of heating the tiny tank.
John was set up by the water dish in the main tank. I put a plate of food and a cap of water right next to him so he doesn't have to climb to get any of these things.
I have 2 months till my Surgery so I hope in that time there will be some resolution one way or the other.
CM
So what I would recommend is giving her more protein, more calcium and some raw honey to help her get some energy :) If you have any organic bee pollen, that would work too! :) Good luck!

Re: Hi everyone, been a while

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:35 pm
by CrabMater
Hey GB, thanks for responding. I also give them chicken, fish, and tofu. As a vegetarian meat doesn't cross my plate but my daughter is eating chicken. I always give them the rib section w meat, bone and gristle. I do eat fish and shrimp, so of course they get the tails with the little nib of meat.
I will get some honey and put a bit on a tiny feeding shell for both. And go over the list once again. Thank you for going over my ER template.

CM

Re: Hi everyone, been a while

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:12 am
by CrabMater
Well, I'm back with sad news. Both Diana and John are claw in claw in the Great Underground.
After about a week in hospital Diana succumbed to death. My entire living room smelled like death. I opened her tank and she was clearly deceased. I never smelled that before. I knew it was going to happen when she stopped moving but I was comforted that she died in peace and not ripped to pieces.
John who had been moving around and eating about a week ago shed his shell one night. I panicked but knew that was going to be the end. I dipped him in fresh water and put him in the Shell Shop. He scurried into a large cholla log. I keep the tank moist and kept his food / water fresh. He put his shell back on that night. But I saw him chuck it about 3 more times.
This morning Death Smell was back. I went in looking for him and I found him upside-down​ in the mouth of his burrow. Completely dessicated. So sad, I really believed he was going to pull through. But no. I really don't know what brought them ALL down. I'm scared to get more. And I won't for a while. I'm due to have surgery in late September so I won't have the time to devote to them while I'm healing. If any seasoned crabbers have opinions/ advice I'd love to hear it.
I've already filled out an ER template in an earlier post in this thread.
I'm gun-shy about repopulating my tank, I don't want to do the same thing again and lose them.
Thanks for reading.
CM

Re: Hi everyone, been a while

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:54 pm
by fandt94
Oh no! I have been following this thread and was praying for a good outcome! Very sorry for your loss....you have obviously been very dedicated to them and did all you could :(

Re: Hi everyone, been a while

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:39 pm
by CrabMater
Thank you for your kind words FandT. I too was hoping for the best. I did TRY but sometimes I think they are just past the point of No Return. I am grateful you read my story. I am hopeful some one with more experience than me can shed some light on the situation. I really enjoyed being a Crab Mater and would like to again. But I need some time and maybe more education on what these guys need for survival.
CM

Re: Hi everyone, been a while

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:51 pm
by aussieJJDude
Sorry to hear! GB did highlight some potential problems for long term success a few posts above, for me, I think its a dietary related issues, like deficient in a nutrient.

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Re: Hi everyone, been a while

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:54 pm
by CrabMater
Hey Aussie, I tried to vary their diets as much as possible. I am still devistated. I will DEFINITELY reread nutrition requirements for HCs. To think this was avoidable makes me cringe. Thank you for your input.

Re: Hi everyone, been a while

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:01 pm
by aussieJJDude
CrabMater wrote:Hey Aussie, I tried to vary their diets as much as possible. I am still devistated. I will DEFINITELY reread nutrition requirements for HCs. To think this was avoidable makes me cringe. Thank you for your input.
Im just saying what I think. ;) whether its right or not, I really dont know. Thats just my 2 cents.

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Re: Hi everyone, been a while

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:08 pm
by CrabMater
No, I appreciate your help. I really can't imagine any other reason than something that all 3 of them were exposed to. In the future I will be buying fish and meat to divide up and freeze. I can't do this again to any living creature. : (