Attacked while molting-Full Circle 3/4

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Careyenz
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Attacked while molting-Full Circle 3/4

Post by Careyenz » Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:27 pm

I have had a whole lot of problems today.
Despite my better judgement, my gut told me I had a molter(s) in danger. My big E, Batman, has been digging like crazy. I've never worried before about his digging, but I had crabs that were just down too long. Glad I intervened. As it turns out, my rescued E, Fasty, was attacked mid molt. He's in pretty bad shape. He has two legs, and it looks like no pinchers. He looks really soft, so it must have been a recent attack. I have him iso'd in a small KK with honey, mashed up food, salt, and fresh water. In the process of searching, I dug up 4 molters, all which are now active and look good. I placed the KK in my 10 gallon ISO, gave everyone a bath, and moved them in. The worst of it is my molting teeny seems to have been devoured. I found his shell, but not a trace of the crab.
I've been following CrabbyMom's post about her straw, but I need some advice:

-Since he looks so soft, when can I start trying to feed him? I mashed up egg shells and cuttle bone into his food, but I don't want to over stress him.
-I am pretty sure the fox shell is heavy for him to hold up. Is it even worthwhile to try to get him to switch shells now? I don't even know if he would have the strength to switch.
-Do I need to worry about my fresh molters attacking each other? They have a lot of protein and calcium in their food.
-Has anyone used natural marine sand? It's very fine, and I want to make sure it's ok to use. My 10 gallon was out of use for awhile, and I didn't want to buy a 50 lb bag of sand. So in my desperation, I bought two bags of this. It packs well, but it sort of reminds me of mashed potatoes, if you can understand that analogy.
Please keep Fasty in your thoughts. He was rescued out of terrible conditions, so I have an extra soft spot for him. I feel awful this happened.


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Last edited by Careyenz on Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:23 pm, edited 10 times in total.
Careyenz, mom to Collin-7, Lily-4, 4 Straws, 5 Blues, 2 Violas, 2 E's, 2 PP's, and 3 cats.

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annopia
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Re: Attacked while molting and a bunch of other problems-hel

Post by annopia » Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:37 pm

so sorry you're going through this. i am in a similar situation right now-attacked molter, no pinchers, just one walking leg.

i would leave Fasty alone (no hand feeding or watering) for a day or two so he can harden. i would mince up some shrimp tail and egg shells and put them very near to him, then cover him up in an iso.

after he hardens, with just two legs he will probably need your help to get to water and food. you'll need to position him next to a small, shallow dish of water (both kinds, alternate) so he can drink. food should be mushed or diced (baby food can be good), with lots of calcium. a lot of it involves figuring out what works best for him (where to position him, how deep of water).

i am pulling for him.

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Careyenz
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Attacked while molting and a bunch of other problems-help!

Post by Careyenz » Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:48 pm

I just watched the most amazing thing. He's actually eating and drinking in there! I recorded it on my phone, but I can't figure out how to post videos on Tapatalk. He used his front left leg as a scoop and used his mouth parts to eat from his leg. The he turned around and drank salt water the same way. I want this guy to pull through so bad!
Image
It's hard to see here because it's through glass and a KK, but he's eating here and you an see some of the damage. He can pretty much just turn around in a circle, but that's all he needs to do to keep eating.


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Mamakins
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Attacked while molting and a bunch of other problems-help!

Post by Mamakins » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:54 pm

Good luck with him. Eating is a good sign. Hope he pulls through for you!
Laura: AKA MOM! Crabby since May 07
Mom to Evan 19, Trevor 16, Justin 14, Warren 12
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Careyenz
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Re: Attacked while molting and a bunch of other problems-hel

Post by Careyenz » Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:03 pm

Can someone tell me how often I should be bathing him? I remember Crabbymom saying she was doing it three times a day and someone recommended just one time. I cannot get over how much he is eating. I'm sure he knows what's best, but I'm really surprised. Even my husband is rooting for him, and he's pretty unexcited about the crabs in general. Also, should he be bathed in fresh then salt water? I'm really determined to see this guy recover! :cheer:
Careyenz, mom to Collin-7, Lily-4, 4 Straws, 5 Blues, 2 Violas, 2 E's, 2 PP's, and 3 cats.

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kuza
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Re: Attacked while molting and a bunch of other problems-hel

Post by kuza » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:54 pm

I'm not sure they need a lot of baths but more just time to drink. But I haven't dealt with this yet so I don't want to give bad advice. I hole he pulls through. :cry:

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Attacked while molting and a bunch of other problems-help!

Post by Careyenz » Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:19 am

I gave him a little bath this morning and put him in a shallow dish of fresh then salt water. He didn't drink much, but then he let me feed him honey from a Q tip. I checked on him first thing and got scared because he got flipped over in the night and I thought he had died. Sure enough, after I righted him, he popped out. He's definitely got some fight in him.
Did anyone happen to read my question about the natural marine sand? It's pretty because it's so white, but it's so fine that I'm worried about it. It reminds me of finely ground sugar.
I have a long day at work today, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a good return home!


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kuza
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Re: Attacked while molting and a bunch of other problems-hel

Post by kuza » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:20 am

I wouldn't know about the sand but he's not digging anyway so it's just to keep moisture for now anyway.

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Re: Attacked while molting and a bunch of other problems-hel

Post by Careyenz » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:29 pm

In trying to find Fasty and the teeny that didn't make it, I interrupted 4 molters. They are in my iso, but I'd like to get them back in my main tank to give Fasty the iso to himself. He's in a KK inside my ISo right now. The molters all had eaten their exo and appear healthy and active. I also bathed them. How long should I wait before I put them back in their home?
Careyenz, mom to Collin-7, Lily-4, 4 Straws, 5 Blues, 2 Violas, 2 E's, 2 PP's, and 3 cats.

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kuza
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Re: Attacked while molting and a bunch of other problems-hel

Post by kuza » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:38 pm

I don't wait if they are eating and moving around and can dig. They will go back down if they want too.

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Re: Attacked while molting and a bunch of other problems-hel

Post by CrabbyMom33 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:33 pm

Sorry, just starting to catch up after no power over the weekend. I sounds like you read my post on Sparky. I've been trying to document as much as I can in there to make it a reference post. Also look up wodesorel's post on Sunshine: http://www.hermitcrabassociation.com/ph ... ed#p755940

I agree that if he is still soft it is likely his exo was stolen and he needs to eat something similar. Annopia's recommendation of shrimp tails is a great alternative. The eggshells are good as well. If he is eating that well on his own I'd start doing regular feedings. I would try to aim for 2 or 3, whatever you can work into your schedule. Dealing with a disabled crab take a lot of time and patience. I fed Sparky 3 times a day for about 2 weeks, them went to once a day when I was able to move him to a 10 gallon tank and his gel limbs were starting to form. It's what I can handle and it seems to be working for him. Only time and a molt will tell.

As for the shell, it's very unlikely he's going to want to change shells. If he's in something that fits his back side I'd leave it alone. I had to grab a shell by guess for Sparky since he dug up with no shell. As long as they are protected that is what is important. With only 2 legs he's not going anywhere fast anyway.

On the molters, my guess is that in the 24 hours since your first post you have that figured out. If they are active and eating and drinking I'd move them to the main tank, but give them a bath first and do it at a time when you can keep an eye on things for a bit.

I can't help you on the sand because I'm not familiar with it.

It sounds like Fasty is making an effort and that is half the battle. Try to provide a variety of food and give it to him in a power if possible. A mortar and pestal gives you a lot more easy options since you can grind them up. You can get small ones pretty cheap on Amazon. Push the protein and minerals because that is what he needs the most. I've been using several items from HCP a lot - mineral supplement, surf 'n turf, a couple different cuttle mixes. Bee pollen is also very healthy and every time I've offered it Sparky eats it. I also very finely chop cooked shrimp with the exo, coconut, scrambled egg, egg shells, chicken, hamburger, and fruits (banana is easy).
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Re: Attacked while molting and a bunch of other problems-hel

Post by wodesorel » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:11 am

kuza wrote:I don't wait if they are eating and moving around and can dig. They will go back down if they want too.
I would give them 24 hours in an ISO even if they seem normal. In the past I've found buried Es that were extremely active and that I thought were okay, but were so close to actually molting that they either surface molted with no warning, or were attacked by the other crabs since they were extremely weak and smelled good. (I knew they were close to molting as their outer layer of exo flaked off where they had been attacked.) PPs turn into slugs before they molt, Es don't seem to be affected at all so it's harder to tell.



If he seems that perky and mobile, I would provide him with at least one other small lightweight shell that he could have the option of. Es tend to streak when they can't move around properly, so it would be good to at least give him the option in case he decides to go nakey at night.

I just found a crab last week in my main PP tank that had only two legs on one side and no other limbs. She had been wandering around for a while as I found her in the upper levels with gel limbs! Don't know how she managed to do it, but she was moving fast and could even climb. (Wouldn't have believed it but I watch her do it.) I moved her into an ISO for safety and she dug herself in overnight. So they aren't always helpless. :) You'll just have to wait and see how he does once he hardens up and hopefully gets a lighter, easier to move shell.

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Re: Attacked while molting and a bunch of other problems-hel

Post by kuza » Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:33 am

That's probably a good plan :)

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Attacked while molting and a bunch of other problems-help!

Post by Careyenz » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:40 pm

Thanks for all the great advice. I am kind of concerned that he might decide streaking is an easier way to get around. The fox shell he is in tends to roll-forward and back. I'm providing fresh and salt water in his KK in kid's medicine cups because I'm afraid might roll and get stuck. At least I know these are small enough in width that he can't drown in them (I hope).

Image
Image

He is definitely doing his best to hang on. No gel limbs yet. You can see from these pics the damage was pretty bad. I really appreciate both of you, Wode and Crabbymom, documenting what you went through with your little guys, because that helped so much with mine. I can already tell its going to be a ton of work, but I want to give him the best chance to survive. My husband is starting to think I'm nuts. He's calling our ISO the ICU. I am also surprised how well Fasty is eating. He is also drinking quite well when I have him out. Would you give him fresh then salt water or reverse? He seems to be drinking a lot of fresh then losing interest (or tiring out) when I put him in the salt water dish. I'm feeling more hopeful, but still a little overwhelmed. I really appreciate the help. I'm in this for the long haul!


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Re: Attacked while molting and a bunch of other problems-hel

Post by CrabbyMom33 » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:57 pm

It looks like the one leg I can see is a full leg. That is good! Is the other one the full leg? Having the tips will give him a better ability to slightly pull himself into position. When I first started with Sparky I had him in a KK inside another tank in between times I took him out for food and water. I basically wedged him in between 2 small water dishes (purchased at Petsmart for under $1 each) and a shell with food. Sparky is in a turbo, so he was better able to turn a bit, but you could probably arrange all 3 so Fasty can reach. I changed the food in the shell pretty much every time I took him out to eat. I'd feed messy stuff when he was out and dry, powered things in the shell in the KK. He did eat a lot from the shell.

Here's a picture so you know what I mean.
Image

As far as the hubby, he may come around. Mine said we were running an assisted living facility for hermit crabs. Mine had already determined I was nuts by the time the third tank was set up. He does come in and check on Sparky to see how he's doing and I even have him crab-sit sometimes when Sparky is out in the water container and I need to go do something.

Sounds like you are doing a good job so far! It is a lot of work, won't tell you otherwise. Once you get in a routine it will get easier. I tend to do the same routine every night. That makes it easier for me and Sparky knows exactly what to expect.
Owner of 8 PPs, 2 Compressus, 4 Straws

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