Page 3 of 4

PETA's Stance on Hermit Crabs as Pets

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:44 pm
by NewCrabber
quote:No one on this forum supports PETA, clearly. However, PETA is not “happy” about homeless pets, they don’t want to kill off everyone’s dogs and cats, that’s all I wanted people to acknowledge. The only place to go in order to find out what PETA’s positions are is their position statements. It’s not fair or accurate to report what you’ve heard about PETA from Joe’s home page, or to take from the quotes from a random member and claim they represent the entire organization. It’s true that all we have are the available facts, but let’s stick to them. Just so you know the facts, Laura, I have perused PeTA literature, their site and other sources of information about them and did not report anything or draw my conclusions from Joe's home page or other similar sites. As a result of the info I have read, I conclude the ultimate goal of this organization is the end of pet ownership. You may not agree with that, you may not be able to see it, but that doesn't mean the facts as you see them, make those who disagree with you wrong and what isn't fair is to say those who do are stretching the truth. As well, my first posts begins with, Just some things I found interesting and want to share. It's true, I later state, after the post of quotes, I (and in my opinion) personally believe when Ingrid Newkirk is being interviewed as the president of PeTA, what she says is representative of the groups goals, beliefs, etc. Whether that is judged as right or wrong is a matter of opinion. But nowhere in my first or subsequent posts do I make the "claim" that they represent the entire organization.I think people deserve more credit. Not everyone who reads a bunch of quotes from some random member will take it as gospel. Some people, if interested, will look into the issue further on their own so they are able to draw their own conclusions.That's true, PeTA says and demonstrates that they are not happy about homeless pets. They also make it abundantly clear (to some) that they are not happy about pet ownership. Some of us hear and see actions that loudly proclaim that their wish is to stop pet ownership and make free all animals.quote:Why not just focus on the issues of concern? Hermit crabs can live happy lives in captivity. The problems with pet stores and misinformed buyers can be solved by education. It seems to me the elimination of pet ownership is a concern. And I, as I'm sure many would agree, change through education can resolve the problems that plague the pet trade and pet ownership. As clear as it is that no one involved in this discussion is a PeTA supporter, it is equally clear there is difference of opinion here. You want people to acknowledge that this organization doesn't want to kill off everyone's dogs and cats. I was going to say in my last post that I don't recall anyone saying that, but Gertie already mentioned it so no need. However, I do not think that is what people are saying. You seek acknowledgment of something that I think is not being debated. I also do not think anyone agrees that they actually want to kill off all of our dogs and cats, but they do want to eliminate pet ownership.I personally believe PeTA speaks with two tongues. The facts, as I see them. Who is to say I am wrong? SOmetimes even cold, hard facts are open to interpretation.For that reason, considering the direction this discussion is taking, it is at this point that I am requesting that we all agree to disagree on this one point of contention. If anyone has anything further to add regarding this one point, PM is always an option, but feel free to continue discussing other aspects of PeTA in the thread.

PETA's Stance on Hermit Crabs as Pets

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:49 pm
by Jenn
Ariel put it perfectly. I do believe their KFC boycott is right,but the dog show thing is overboard. If any of them ever showed up at a show where I was,I'd probably send at least 3 of them to the hospital I personally think peta should be sued for those dogs that were killed. Also,more proof they are just plain fanatical: The aspca pays no attention to them whatsoever,as my uncle has told us. Hoddy,that was hilarious! people eating tasty animals...ROTFLAnd animals were put here to be eaten mainly. I wonder if any of those peta members are christians or such religions? *AM NOT MEANING TO OFFEND ANYONE WITH THAT COMMENT*

PETA's Stance on Hermit Crabs as Pets

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:21 pm
by Ariel
quote:Originally posted by Jenn:And animals were put here to be eaten mainly. I wonder if any of those peta members are christians or such religions? *AM NOT MEANING TO OFFEND ANYONE WITH THAT COMMENT* I am confused.. not meaning to take this discussion an entire different direction, but I'm a strong conservative Christian and disagree with that comment. From a biblical standpoint, mankind has dominion over animals, but that isn't license to tyrany. Just as a gardener is responsible for his garden. It takes digging through mud and planting little insects here and there to keep everything in balance, but it's all worth it

PETA's Stance on Hermit Crabs as Pets

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:55 pm
by Guest
All I can do is link, again, to PETA’s official position statements regarding companion animals. Any individual member who is quoted as disagreeing with these positions does not agree with the organization’s membership. I don’t understand why there’s a debate here, the positions are clear. I’ve provided the link to the site. I welcome people to read it and draw their own conclusions. I feel confident enough in the clarity of the positions. I just ask people to stick to what PETA says and not what other people say they’re saying.http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_companion.aspAgain, we can easily debate PETA based upon their official positions without even brining up things which they’ll refuse to acknowledge. Why make the debate harder? Why risk losing credibility when they can simply say: “we don’t believe that”? quote:Originally posted by NewCrabber:Often times this form of communication can be confusing. You just misunderstood Or perhaps you just weren’t very clear. When you say “another quote from that person” it seems to be implying that the quote is from the person you just quoted, which was me. I realize this wasn’t your intent, but I wanted to clarify that the second quote (“PETA lawyers…”) was not mine.quote:Originally posted by NewCrabber: You want people to acknowledge that this organization doesn't want to kill off everyone's dogs and cats. I was going to say in my last post that I don't recall anyone saying that, but Gertie already mentioned it so no need. However, I do not think that is what people are saying. You seek acknowledgment of something that I think is not being debated. …and what implication do you expect people to draw from quotes like this?quote:Originally posted by NewCrabber: PETA's goal is now the elimination of all dogs. Dogs are domestic animals, and PETA feels domestic animals should not exist. I oppose scare tactics, used by PETA or anyone else.

PETA's Stance on Hermit Crabs as Pets

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 3:31 am
by CrystalStone
I must be having a blonde moment ...It took me until now to understand what Laura is saying. She is correct that if you were to get into a debate with PETA, it would be pointless to mention anything contrary to what their "official position" on the matter is because it is written out and published as the entire organization's "official" position. No matter what the individual members say or do contrary to that position, you cannot attack the whole organization for it. Did that even make sense? LOLI do not like the fact that PETA recruits pre-teen and teenagers. I've been on the Peta2.com messageboards that is made up of mostly members under the age of 18 and I was angered to see how they encourage other children(yes, everyone under 18 is still a child) to disobey their parents and to become vegans without proper dietary knowledge on what to eat to replace meats and animal by-products. They also give points to kids for passing out brochures or protesting so that they can buy "cool" PETA gear. They reward vandalism and even pass out the tools to commit the crime by mailing the kids stacks of stickers to stick on everything. I even read a post where a kid was explaining to another how to make a pipe bomb to damage his neighbor's property because the neighbor was a hunter. To me, PETA is big group of animal rights terrorists.

PETA's Stance on Hermit Crabs as Pets

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:49 am
by GSnicklegrove
Again, if I were to get into a debate with PETA, I would use public documents. People and organizations can say anything. If a debate is limited to what is in a published pamphlet or website, then so be it, that would be the rule of the debate. My style of debating, which I picked up in college, was to simply cut to the chase on positions, when related to organizations that exist, using public documents/records.How in the world (I know it is possible in some teachers class room) would people take seriously a debate over propaganda? How would such a debate ensue without grounding facts? It would be nothing more than a big old round of Bull Gossip.Again. I must say, actions show clear intent, whether or not adverstising literature says to the contrary.I must say, going back and reading all these posts again, a real sticky point seems to be all the personal things said to others, like lack of integrity, stretching the truth, don't sink to their level, etc. I think this discussion would stay much more civil if we can keep personal attacks out of this discussion. After all, we're talking about an organization, not the members here. No one should feel they are on the defensive. Being on the offensive often betrays ones position in a debate, giving the defense an upper hand anyway.As far as a few of the past things I have said in this discussion, one came from PETA news, one came from The Associated Press (AP) and Norfolk News, and is a matter of public record, and one was my own comment about a case I am following in my own Washington, that may/may not affect me down the road. Real stuff. Sure, someone from PETA could deny these things, but if you can prove, without a shadow of a doubt, they are taking certain actions, yes, it qualifies as debate worthy and can trump the opponent in a debate. I have never heard of a debate excluding public records. I take that last sentence back, after elections...sheesh!Now, it would be an unfair team up, to have to debate a PETA person who is underage, or UNDEReducated, that would be an obvious trump.But, when I entered this discussion, I thought we were just discussing PETA back and forth. Now there are rules? While all points in this discussion, on any side, may be valid, there is no reason to need to attack any idea that one may feel PETA will refuse to acknowledge. Doesn't matter what they will refuse, like a court case. Facts and actions will sink to the bottom, and the coconut will rise to the top of the flan when heat is applied. What is and is not will make two distint layers. lolMaking a point is fine, but the only rules to this discussion, is to keep it civil, keep it plain insomuch no one is attributed to having a lack of integrity or such by expressing an opinion or position. Gertie

PETA's Stance on Hermit Crabs as Pets

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:56 am
by Jenn
A pipe bomb to destroy his neighbor's property??? That's a little bit too far. Ariel,I was simply meaning to say that many animals like cows were meant to be eaten,at least that's what my church teaches. PETA is strongly against it and says they are equal to us and not for food. I think I have confused myself again,lol

PETA's Stance on Hermit Crabs as Pets

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:02 am
by Guest
Hey Jenn, I understood what you were saying. It's like this. Jesus fed the 5000+ with fish. My idea is that it's ok to eat it, but it isn't ok to waste it, or "trophy hunt." Anyway, this discussion has gotten SO off topic. I don't think I've even heard anyone say anything about contacting PETA. I haven't read the posts THAT carefully though. I don't think anyone thinks it would make much of a difference to them anyway. Yes PETA is very zany in some of their views, but at least they are on that side of the argument than the side that sells crabs in kiosks and metal wire containers.I mean, it's pretty obvious (at least to me) that they will never get most people to agree with what they're saying, and little/none of what they do will ever effect us, so if all they do is encourage a few less kids to get a crab as a decoration pet, good for them. That's about as much as I can say for them though.

PETA's Stance on Hermit Crabs as Pets

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:10 am
by NewCrabber
Out of context......I do not think that is what people are saying. You seek acknowledgment of something that I think is not being debated. I also do not think anyone agrees that they actually want to kill off all of our dogs and cats, but they do want to eliminate pet ownership. "PETA's goal is now the elimination of all dogs. Dogs are domestic animals, and PETA feels domestic animals should not exist." quote:…and what implication do you expect people to draw from quotes like this? Whatever they choose. Perhaps you didn't notice, I include the URL to the site under the quote in my post. Anyone is perfectly free to go to the site and read the rest of what is said by the person who made that statement. quote:I welcome people to read it and draw their own conclusions. Maybe I'm wrong, (I'm growing tired of this discussion) you feel people should base what they think regarding this point, what conclusions are drawn, on what they, the organization as a whole, say on their web site. Not comments or statements or actions by individuals of the organization, not the president, etc.Anyone can set up a web site and print literature expressing their organization's views, beliefs, what their positions are, post a mission statement, have a Q & A section and make themselves look wonderful. If we look no further, perhaps they have many right where they want/need them. Sometimes there is more than meets the eye.quote:Again, we can easily debate PETA based upon their official positions without even brining up things which they'll refuse to acknowledge. Why make the debate harder? Why risk losing credibility when they can simply say: “we don't believe that"? As I believe was mentioned in the above post, I didn't realize anyone was in a debate with PeTA or contemplating one. As far as I know, this has been a discussion among fellow members of a crabbing community. If there was some discussion over getting into some kind of a debate with them where hermit crabs are concerned, I must have missed it and the thread has gone seriously off topic if that's the case.As I said, I've grown tired of going round and round on this point, it's useless. It seems we cannot agree to disagree. But I'm finished, I have nothing more to say. Since the discussion has gotten away from hermit crabs, I'm going to move it to the Addicts forum shortly.

PETA's Stance on Hermit Crabs as Pets

Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:23 am
by Ariel
quote:Originally posted by Jenn:Ariel,I was simply meaning to say that many animals like cows were meant to be eaten,at least that's what my church teaches. PETA is strongly against it and says they are equal to us and not for food. I think I have confused myself again,lol Ok, understood! I agree. Cattle, while they do have their own distinct personalities and should be treated in such a way, are very well suited for the purpouse they are used. What a ..coincedince? LOL I think part of it is, animals often develop stronger personalities when they are interracted with from birth. My hen Brownie is very intelligent because that part of her brain has been stimulated & grown. That's not to say the chickens broilers are stupid and nothing but a blob, they of course deserve humane treatment, but my hen wouldn't cope as well because her brain has adjusted literally to a differant life.

PETA's Stance on Hermit Crabs as Pets

Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:26 am
by Ariel
Also, I think it's important that it's realized that what PETA stands for doesn't matter. They could be totally against hermt crab kiosks but that doesn't matter a BIT to me, beacause a) they're opposed to the owning of hermit crabs in the first place which shows they have no real grasp on the situation and reality of the pet trade, and b) they have no clue on how to get through to people make any changes! It's all harass, harass, harass.

PETA's Stance on Hermit Crabs as Pets

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:46 am
by CrystalStone
I just watched the video of them releasing Herman...I guess PETA is OK with littering in the crabs natural environment -they left the transport bucket on the beach. LOL Idiots.

PETA's Stance on Hermit Crabs as Pets

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:42 am
by Guest
quote:Originally posted by Laura_B:Regardless, I don’t really think it’s important or helpful to blame people for the direction of this thread, especially when your post added nothing to the discussion but to attack me. Thanks. I think this discussion is making us all a bit testy, being such a sensitive subject. There was no ill-will or attack intended here, Laura_B, and certainly no desire to blame anyone. Believe me, there's no fine line between honest discussion and attacks.This discussion has worn me out... I'm going to go fry up a nice steak and en-joy!

PETA's Stance on Hermit Crabs as Pets

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:20 am
by Guest
I'm surprised to come back to this thread and see that our members are in such turmoil! The topic of this thread (I thought) was how silly that video of PETA releasing "Herman" was & how the story was misleading. I come back a few days later & was shcoked to realize one of OUR members feels like she was being attacked by other members. We all love hermit crabs & are willing to fight for their rights & treatment. We should not be fighting with each other.Some people will agree with PETA, some won't. Each is entitled to their opinion. MY OPINION is that we lock this thread now and everyone agrees to disagree.

PETA's Stance on Hermit Crabs as Pets

Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:31 pm
by Guest
You know I would really piss PETA off I love meat, I carve/tool/work leather, I own horses dogs, hermies, ducks and used to own a rabbit untill a idot neighbors dog killed it. I think that PETA is a waste of time and most members should be shot speaking of shooting my dogs are all bird hunting dogs and it is one of my fav. sports to hunt but the thing is I shouldn't piss PETA off becuse all of my dogs are pampered spoiled brats that who we spend at least a 100 bucks a week on chew toys for them. We feed them the best foods and are loved greatly we also have a 1/4 acre fenced back yard for them to run around lke the crazed manics they are also they only have to go into crates when we leave the house so they don't get hurt (they seem to panic like were never comeing back. have no idea why) they also have the best beds... our beds they take up more room than you could imagine in fact they won't even eat unless theres hot water poured over there food and they all like it differint this one likes only a little water that one tons this one here perfers his food floating there driveing me crazy thats why my brain is mushPompusEraticTotalA$$ #*!&$ just had to put it again