Hypothetical Questions about Breeding

This area is dedicated to the pioneers who have captive bred crabs, and for those who wish to learn more or attempt it themselves. Also for inquiring about the gender of your crabs.
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DreaminginBlue_2
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Hypothetical Questions about Breeding

Post by DreaminginBlue_2 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:52 am

Though currently I don't have the have the time or funds to join the incredibly dedicated and wonderful people who have worked on advancing our knowledge of captive breeding, I had some hypothetical questions (just in case someday I am in a place where I can help.)
1) I know most have used Kreisel tanks and jars, but these are small and need frequent water changes. I wondered, what if one was to get a very large aquarium and set it up in a way to mimic the ocean? It'd be cycled with filtration, and the large volume would mean fewer water changes. I imagine it'd have sand on the bottom and there'd have to be some way to mimic the current. Perhaps if it was set up just right, a culture of live plankton could be used to feed the crabs. Then they'd be moved to a shore-like transition pool (as all the breeding attempts I've seen have used) when they're ready to move to land.
2) Is there any large organization or museum or something that might be interested in helping us research/learn about captive breeding? I know of many very wealthy intistutions (like, the California Academy of Sciences) that have the funding and the resources to conduct research. A team of biologists and scientists might be able to figure out a more reliable method to raise zoeae. Many such places value conservation and the furthering of knowledge, so maybe writing them a letter might be worth a try?
3) Has anyone ever bred/raised C. compressus? I know aussies have been raised and E's are similar to aussies, but I wondered if work with this particular species hasn't been done, someday I can try to get them to breed.
These are just ideas that came to me, they might be comepletely useless but I wondered.

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Re: Hypothetical Questions about Breeding

Post by wodesorel » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:19 pm

Kreisel tanks work because there is no mechanical filtration and the design keeps zoea from catching on anything. They are so tiny and they can only drift, so they will get sucked into any kind of filtration or pump system. This is also why large marine tanks don't have plankton colonies, because they are impossible to keep alive while still filtering and moving water for everything else.

They are not endangered so I doubt anyone would be interested in anything large scale yet. There have been several papers on lab rearing coenobita, however they have all been with wild gravid females.

There are a few of us who have had Es reproduce in captivity. The first lab reared zoea were Es since they have an abbreviated larval stage. To my knowledge no one has yet gotten captive bred Es to land though from start to finish.
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DreaminginBlue_2
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Re: Hypothetical Questions about Breeding

Post by DreaminginBlue_2 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:33 pm

Thanks wodesorel. :)
Maybe someday I can give E's a try.

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Renroc
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Re: Hypothetical Questions about Breeding

Post by Renroc » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:47 pm

wodesorel wrote:
There are a few of us who have had Es reproduce in captivity. The first lab reared zoea were Es since they have an abbreviated larval stage. To my knowledge no one has yet gotten captive bred Es to land though from start to finish.
Hi, you said that Es have an abbreviated larval stage. Is it as short as our Aussies? We have 10-12 days in 5 steps. I’m asking purely for interest as I will never get the opportunity to experiment with them. Image


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Re: Hypothetical Questions about Breeding

Post by wodesorel » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:06 pm

They take a bit longer at 21 to 33 days in four to five steps:
https://academic.oup.com/jcb/article/21/3/715/2679817
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Re: Hypothetical Questions about Breeding

Post by Renroc » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:32 pm

wodesorel wrote:They take a bit longer at 21 to 33 days in four to five steps:
https://academic.oup.com/jcb/article/21/3/715/2679817
So how long are the others? 40 days I seem to recall.


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Crazy crab lady with 2 babies raised in captivity. One female on male and one unknown. Also 2 adults living in a 4ft tank. Hope to get some girls soon to have another breeding attempt.


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Re: Hypothetical Questions about Breeding

Post by Galoxlos » Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:00 am

Is good information

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Re: Hypothetical Questions about Breeding

Post by Motörcrab » Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:21 pm

I thought there was someone from Germany on here a long time ago that had two huge tanks one that was set up like a forest and the other was like an ocean with plants wave maker, even fish? It was really impressive! I don't recall if they actually raised babies in that though.

When my strawberries had zoea last summer I used a ten gallon tank with several mason jars for the zoea. They only made it to around 10 days. I'm hoping to get another attempt this summer!

Mary Akers is the hermit crab whisperer! She is the most knowledgeable and successful captive breeder in the world. She would be able to answer just about anything breeding related. She has been streamlining her techniques to make it easier for everyone else.
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Re: Hypothetical Questions about Breeding

Post by Crabby7Crabber » Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:10 pm

Motörcrab wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:21 pm
I thought there was someone from Germany on here a long time ago that had two huge tanks one that was set up like a forest and the other was like an ocean with plants wave maker, even fish? It was really impressive! I don't recall if they actually raised babies in that though.

When my strawberries had zoea last summer I used a ten gallon tank with several mason jars for the zoea. They only made it to around 10 days. I'm hoping to get another attempt this summer!

Mary Akers is the hermit crab whisperer! She is the most knowledgeable and successful captive breeder in the world. She would be able to answer just about anything breeding related. She has been streamlining her techniques to make it easier for everyone else.
I'd really love a crabitat live the person from Germany! Also, congrats on getting zoea and keeping it alive 10 days! That's really cool! I don't intend to try to breed hermies unless I choose marine biology as a career and study it while in college. But I'm always keeping my hermies with me, no doubt about that!
I honestly really admire Mary Akers. She is so successful and knowledgeable when it comes to hermies and breeding them! She also just seems like a very kind, compassionate person! I want to be a hermit crab whisperer when I grow up, too! Does she give lessons? Do any of you guys? Or are hermit crabs magical and only certain intelligent people get them? :lol:
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Re: Hypothetical Questions about Breeding

Post by wodesorel » Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:29 pm

Motörcrab wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:21 pm
I thought there was someone from Germany on here a long time ago that had two huge tanks one that was set up like a forest and the other was like an ocean with plants wave maker, even fish? It was really impressive! I don't recall if they actually raised babies in that though.
We had two! Curlz and Naalide. And they got babies.
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Re: Hypothetical Questions about Breeding

Post by Motörcrab » Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:49 pm

Mary is awesome. She helped a lot me trying to raise the zoea. Last year I gave her one of my straws, Abby, that had eggs at the first Crab Con. Unfortunately at the time we didn't know that the males helped the females during the incubation and releasing of eggs into the saltwater. Without having the dad Abby didn't have that coach and dropped the eggs some place and they became crabby caviar.

A few weeks later I saw two of my straws in the saltwater pool. One was holding the other upside down in the water. When I looked closer I saw little white specks floating around in the water. It was zoea! The male was holding the female upside down so water would get into her shell to release the eggs! With talking to Mary and a member on another crab site they believe that may have been the first documentation of the male helping the female release eggs! I was totally unprepared because I had no idea I had two females with eggs to attempt crabby rearing so I made a makeshift set up for them.

There is so much involved. You need ideal tank conditions to where your crabs are comfortable enough to work their magic. Then they need to release the eggs into the saltwater pool. From there you need to siphon them all out and get them into a kreisel or something similar. Then its feeding several times a day, and nightly water changes that require siphoning the zoea into the new water. I spent about 3 hours a night with them doing that. Once they reach the megalopa stage they need to find shells then want to make the journey onto land and become tiny hermit crabs! It's something a lot of people try but only 6 people in the entire world that we know of have done. More and more people have been seeing mating and getting eggs. It's proof that all hermit crab sites have great care information. There is still a lot of unknowns with their care and especially breeding. The more we all work together as a community and share information the more successful we will be as keeping hermits as pets and captive breeding! :)
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Re: Hypothetical Questions about Breeding

Post by wodesorel » Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:54 pm

Are you positive he wasn't just enjoying the free meal? Hermit crabs love to eat baby hermits and eggs. Every time my females dropped, there was a giant crab rush to get to them first. I've even had females scooping their own eggs out and sample them as they went.
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Re: Hypothetical Questions about Breeding

Post by Motörcrab » Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:07 pm

It's hard to say. He was gently holding her with barely any movement. She wasn't trying to pinch. Here is the video I got of them in the water.
https://youtu.be/G_cZEgFlm5U
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