I've already covered the reasons why other people haven't done it; unless you wanna be a shady business person and treat the crabs badly it's got a VERY expensive startup cost. I can bet that is the number one reason no one else has yet.lessthansign3 wrote: Exactly. I imagine this business takes a lot of space, time, and skills and comes with very little reward ( i.e. doesn't pay well) else somebody here would have started doing it years ago.
If someone wants to step up, be my guest. I would gladly buy from you.
LiveHermitCrabs.com
Re: LiveHermitCrabs.com
Sach's All Natural Crab Food & Supply Store!
http://sachscrabpagestore.com/
http://sachscrabpagestore.com/
Re: LiveHermitCrabs.com
We know why people don't do it, but you said a new business would never get off the ground because we let her get away with it, and I pointed out that that is incorrect. We would support someone else doing it, despite how tough it may be.
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wodesorel
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Re: LiveHermitCrabs.com
Personally, it would take a business that could guarantee a safe harvest and humane transport and housing before I would ever put money towards buying another hermit crab. I just can't see supporting an industry that is all about the money and not about the welfare of the hermits. I keep my husband apprised of HCA events, and when he heard about all this he looked at me with $$$ signs in his eyes and asked if we could import and sell hermit crabs ourselves. I'm sure I looked at him with abject terror when I replied that of course we could, if he was okay with the idea of collecting thousands of crabs from the wild and being directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of those just so we could make a profit. (Which is the same reason why I can't bring myself to buy exotics or even more PPs - the fact that several if not dozens of hermits died just so I could have one of them would be devastating for me to live with.) He dropped that idea fast.
It wouldn't be so hard on this end (USA), but it's finding suppliers on that end (where the hermits come from) that is difficult part. We're talking third world countries that don't have animal abuse laws and don't care about anything except being able to put food on the table for their families. You can't fault them for that, but at the same time it's horrific to have to deal with because there is no thought to the animals being harvested and transported past getting them to their destination and getting paid for it.
It wouldn't be so hard on this end (USA), but it's finding suppliers on that end (where the hermits come from) that is difficult part. We're talking third world countries that don't have animal abuse laws and don't care about anything except being able to put food on the table for their families. You can't fault them for that, but at the same time it's horrific to have to deal with because there is no thought to the animals being harvested and transported past getting them to their destination and getting paid for it.
Want to see all my crazy pets? @waywardwaifs on Instagram
Re: LiveHermitCrabs.com
It's a vicious cycle, you can't really win either way, and no one will be happy with the result because people feel so differently and so strongly about each side of the story. Generally speaking, we're talking about lives, not dollar signs, so our emotions get invested in our opinions.
We're not asked to do great things, we're asked to do all things with great care.
Rocky's Reptile Rescue: https://www.facebook.com/RockysReptileRescue
Stop the demand. End the trade.
Rocky's Reptile Rescue: https://www.facebook.com/RockysReptileRescue
Stop the demand. End the trade.
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crabbienewb
- Posts: 86
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Re: LiveHermitCrabs.com
Do people actually think buying pp's results in less deaths than exotics?
If you took the total number of pp's that come into the US, and were able to figure out the % that died within the first year, and then took the number of (any exotic species) that came into the US, figured out the % still alive at the end of the year, I would put money on it that it's the pp's dying more. Simply because their cheap, in every store, and go into crappy conditions in little cages.
Yeah the exotics would have a greater loss in shipment, they have further to go, they have more extreme adjustments to make, but no one is buying an exotic species to shove it in a kk. Those exotics to us, are overcrowded petstore crabs going to live in kks in their home countries, treated the way pp's and e's are here.
My honest opinion, if you took all the species available here. E's would be the ones with the lowest survival rate, from arrival to the US, to 1 year out, with DOA's included. Because they sell for the same price as pp's, get mixed in with pp's, and need more care and space than pp's.
And this is not at all me defending the exotics trade, or saying either one is better than the other. But when someone can buy pp's and E's for .25 a piece or less, they are going to be treated like the .25c they cost the store, and the $3-$5 souvenir easy kids pet they cost the person who happen to come upon them in the store.
No ones going to buy $20+ crabs thinking they can shove them into a little plastic box. Granted yeah if you put the price of pp's and E's on par with exotics, the pp's and E's would have a way higher survival rate since they are way closer to us and would go through much less stress in shipping, and probably wouldn't be treated like crap when they cost the seller more money, but that isn't happening, at least not in the US.
perfect example Japan pet store ruggies and blues 300 yen = $2.82. those crabs are going to be treated like pp's are here
straws from an indonesian petstore
Rp 10,000 IDR= $ 0.8478 USD 40000 Indonesia Rupiah = 3.3913 US Dollar
and to be clear, those are stores selling to locals, not exporters.
All hermit crabs are dying in every country they are available to buy at an extremely high rate.
If you took the total number of pp's that come into the US, and were able to figure out the % that died within the first year, and then took the number of (any exotic species) that came into the US, figured out the % still alive at the end of the year, I would put money on it that it's the pp's dying more. Simply because their cheap, in every store, and go into crappy conditions in little cages.
Yeah the exotics would have a greater loss in shipment, they have further to go, they have more extreme adjustments to make, but no one is buying an exotic species to shove it in a kk. Those exotics to us, are overcrowded petstore crabs going to live in kks in their home countries, treated the way pp's and e's are here.
My honest opinion, if you took all the species available here. E's would be the ones with the lowest survival rate, from arrival to the US, to 1 year out, with DOA's included. Because they sell for the same price as pp's, get mixed in with pp's, and need more care and space than pp's.
And this is not at all me defending the exotics trade, or saying either one is better than the other. But when someone can buy pp's and E's for .25 a piece or less, they are going to be treated like the .25c they cost the store, and the $3-$5 souvenir easy kids pet they cost the person who happen to come upon them in the store.
No ones going to buy $20+ crabs thinking they can shove them into a little plastic box. Granted yeah if you put the price of pp's and E's on par with exotics, the pp's and E's would have a way higher survival rate since they are way closer to us and would go through much less stress in shipping, and probably wouldn't be treated like crap when they cost the seller more money, but that isn't happening, at least not in the US.
perfect example Japan pet store ruggies and blues 300 yen = $2.82. those crabs are going to be treated like pp's are here
straws from an indonesian petstore
Rp 10,000 IDR= $ 0.8478 USD 40000 Indonesia Rupiah = 3.3913 US Dollar
and to be clear, those are stores selling to locals, not exporters.
All hermit crabs are dying in every country they are available to buy at an extremely high rate.
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wodesorel
- Tech Support
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Re: LiveHermitCrabs.com
Actually, yes. People were buying $20 crabs to shove into KKs. Look at the short lived Crabberies kiosk chain - Straws and Blues at high prices being sold in little critter keepers. I'm sure some of our members who frequent Big Al's and Jack's Aquarium can tell similar stories of exotics crabs in KKs being sold to little kids that come from families that have a disposable income. It's the fact that they're fancy that drives the high price, not because people want to do better with keeping them. Look at the high number of abused an abandoned pure breed cats and dogs in the shelters if you believe that people don't hrow away something because it's expensive. 
I also included PPs in my response. It's not just exotics but all hermit crabs. The HCA is supposed to be about reform and education. How is supporting any company that treats hermit crabs like that - no matter what the species - in line with our message of education? Just because everyone is doing it doesn't mean that we have to put up with it as well. Change has to start somewhere.
Also, after five years of watching and reading these boards, there is a much higher rate of exotics having shortened lifespans in captivity. From the adoptions we do, 99% of them are PPs. I've been surprised by how many of those have been with the same owner for 5 or 10 years. And the really sad thing is that some of those adoptions are former members that I remember and that I know had large colonies of various exotics at some point in time, but once their straws or blues or violas all died they lost interest in hermit crabs all together and then decided to rehome their original PPs because all of them were still thriving. The crabbers that manage to keep their exotics alive after 5 years are the minority. Heck, there's a large portion that lose most after only a year, but the problem is that once their crabs die they have no reason to come back to a forum about hermit crabs, so it doesn't get talked about much.
I also included PPs in my response. It's not just exotics but all hermit crabs. The HCA is supposed to be about reform and education. How is supporting any company that treats hermit crabs like that - no matter what the species - in line with our message of education? Just because everyone is doing it doesn't mean that we have to put up with it as well. Change has to start somewhere.
Also, after five years of watching and reading these boards, there is a much higher rate of exotics having shortened lifespans in captivity. From the adoptions we do, 99% of them are PPs. I've been surprised by how many of those have been with the same owner for 5 or 10 years. And the really sad thing is that some of those adoptions are former members that I remember and that I know had large colonies of various exotics at some point in time, but once their straws or blues or violas all died they lost interest in hermit crabs all together and then decided to rehome their original PPs because all of them were still thriving. The crabbers that manage to keep their exotics alive after 5 years are the minority. Heck, there's a large portion that lose most after only a year, but the problem is that once their crabs die they have no reason to come back to a forum about hermit crabs, so it doesn't get talked about much.
Want to see all my crazy pets? @waywardwaifs on Instagram
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crabbienewb
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 10:17 pm
Re: LiveHermitCrabs.com
I'm not saying that any of it is ok, but it's happening to all species, even the pp's and e's from the stores for every 1 we got, lots had to die. I live by the beach and there are a ton of vendors, TONS, and some of the conditions are the worst things I have ever seen, like it looks like a gumball machine with crabs in painted shells stacked on top of each other. Yet I NEVER see crabs for adoption in my area. I have no idea what people here do with the crabs, but being that I'm this close to several tourist areas, I am guessing a ton of them get dropped off at the beach or just let free into the wild, and i don't live anywhere that they could survive the winter.
I'm not talking about lifespans in captivity, im talking about the % that died. People not on the forum, the general population out there, who bought a hermit crab, would have bought a pp or E, because that is what is most often sold, and that's what died. Most people with exotics had to make at least some sort of effort to go find them. They are dying too. But either way exotic or not these crabs are dying at high rates, here and in other countries. You can't excuse the deaths we don't hear about because those people just didn't know, they still count, those crabs still died, maybe not from stress, or shipping, or not being able to adapt, the way exotics have died (which yes, would have been preventable if we never got them), but they died from people not knowing, stores not caring, and bad information being passed around (which is still preventable deaths).
If a high price wouldn't help save them I don't know what would. But all companies treat hermit crabs like that, and the fact they can get away with doing it to dogs, cats, getting any store to take better care of the crabs when they won't do it for dogs and cats is unlikely. But if we don't support stores, certainly we also shouldn't support members who are here who are blatantly ignoring recommendations on conditions to keep their crabs in.
I was going to bring up dogs myself, people buy from breeders, or even pet stores, when they always have the chance to get one from a shelter. There are always dogs and cats at the shelter, that are going to die, not might die, will die. All those unwanted puppies were 100% preventable, easily, and people didn't bother, still don't bother, and won't unless they are forced to. How is anything going to ever change with people out there like that? One of my dogs was 50% her ideal weight, and pregnant, with heartworm, and an obvious abuse case, and was owner surrendered, yet that owner wasn't charged. If people are able to openly get away with that kind of abuse, when the majority see that as wrong, how do things look for smaller animals who are seen as throw away's by the majority of people.
We are completely off topic on LHC now. But still, the % of crabs taken into captivity, that end up living, remains low when you include all sources they are going to, since the majority of them are not going to members on this forum.
I'm not talking about lifespans in captivity, im talking about the % that died. People not on the forum, the general population out there, who bought a hermit crab, would have bought a pp or E, because that is what is most often sold, and that's what died. Most people with exotics had to make at least some sort of effort to go find them. They are dying too. But either way exotic or not these crabs are dying at high rates, here and in other countries. You can't excuse the deaths we don't hear about because those people just didn't know, they still count, those crabs still died, maybe not from stress, or shipping, or not being able to adapt, the way exotics have died (which yes, would have been preventable if we never got them), but they died from people not knowing, stores not caring, and bad information being passed around (which is still preventable deaths).
If a high price wouldn't help save them I don't know what would. But all companies treat hermit crabs like that, and the fact they can get away with doing it to dogs, cats, getting any store to take better care of the crabs when they won't do it for dogs and cats is unlikely. But if we don't support stores, certainly we also shouldn't support members who are here who are blatantly ignoring recommendations on conditions to keep their crabs in.
I was going to bring up dogs myself, people buy from breeders, or even pet stores, when they always have the chance to get one from a shelter. There are always dogs and cats at the shelter, that are going to die, not might die, will die. All those unwanted puppies were 100% preventable, easily, and people didn't bother, still don't bother, and won't unless they are forced to. How is anything going to ever change with people out there like that? One of my dogs was 50% her ideal weight, and pregnant, with heartworm, and an obvious abuse case, and was owner surrendered, yet that owner wasn't charged. If people are able to openly get away with that kind of abuse, when the majority see that as wrong, how do things look for smaller animals who are seen as throw away's by the majority of people.
We are completely off topic on LHC now. But still, the % of crabs taken into captivity, that end up living, remains low when you include all sources they are going to, since the majority of them are not going to members on this forum.
Re: LiveHermitCrabs.com
I just want to say that while I base this solely on deductive reasoning & no concrete proof; I'm willing to bet that the death rates for PPs & Es is MUCH lower than the exotics. The reason? They are harvested closer to where they are sold. PPs are found in Southern Florida and Es can be found in Southern California so they are going through far less before getting to us than the exotics and at least the PPs are hardier.
That being said, I don't support buying PPs & Es any more than the exotics from LHC; I haven't bought crabs from anyone OTHER than LHC in almost 3 years (1 order of straws over 2 years ago); I adopt or have just stuck with what I have. I don't even step foot in a pet store because I don't want the temptation when I am already over capacity for PPs and refuse to give those stores even a dime of my money.
For the record, no; people don't necessarily have to make effort to find exotics; my first straws came from a Jack's pets here in town; $12 each and it made me so sad knowing there were straws being sold in my city that I wasn't hearing about here or on my forum/Fb group; meaning they likely weren't being properly cared for & dying like Wode said.
I agree with Wode too that if the purpose is reform & education then there should be NO support of bad practices; especially when like I said it's all because the people want exotics (that is really the same mentality that leads to over crowding; too many species being combined; conditions of convenience, etc).
I do also agree though that unfortunately change will not be forthcoming any time soon when even the "cute" animals can't get the advocacy they require.
That being said, I don't support buying PPs & Es any more than the exotics from LHC; I haven't bought crabs from anyone OTHER than LHC in almost 3 years (1 order of straws over 2 years ago); I adopt or have just stuck with what I have. I don't even step foot in a pet store because I don't want the temptation when I am already over capacity for PPs and refuse to give those stores even a dime of my money.
For the record, no; people don't necessarily have to make effort to find exotics; my first straws came from a Jack's pets here in town; $12 each and it made me so sad knowing there were straws being sold in my city that I wasn't hearing about here or on my forum/Fb group; meaning they likely weren't being properly cared for & dying like Wode said.
I agree with Wode too that if the purpose is reform & education then there should be NO support of bad practices; especially when like I said it's all because the people want exotics (that is really the same mentality that leads to over crowding; too many species being combined; conditions of convenience, etc).
I do also agree though that unfortunately change will not be forthcoming any time soon when even the "cute" animals can't get the advocacy they require.
Sach's All Natural Crab Food & Supply Store!
http://sachscrabpagestore.com/
http://sachscrabpagestore.com/
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crabbienewb
- Posts: 86
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Re: LiveHermitCrabs.com
Well I guess you're right about them being easy enough to find, and sometimes cheap, called my local fish store (not pet store) who let me look through their suppliers stock listing, and they ordered me medium straws, picked them up today, small mediums/maybe just smalls, $8 each.
Re: LiveHermitCrabs.com
While I think this is an awesome and important conversation to have, it's a little out of place here 
(in this topic, specifically)
What I want to know right now is, the most recent crabs people got from LHC, how are they doing??? Ok? Any molts?
(in this topic, specifically)What I want to know right now is, the most recent crabs people got from LHC, how are they doing??? Ok? Any molts?
We're not asked to do great things, we're asked to do all things with great care.
Rocky's Reptile Rescue: https://www.facebook.com/RockysReptileRescue
Stop the demand. End the trade.
Rocky's Reptile Rescue: https://www.facebook.com/RockysReptileRescue
Stop the demand. End the trade.
Re: LiveHermitCrabs.com
I doubt anyone has even had any recent LHC crabs long enough yet for them to have completed molts but I'm hearing that some of them are coming in REALLY bad shape
Sach's All Natural Crab Food & Supply Store!
http://sachscrabpagestore.com/
http://sachscrabpagestore.com/
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crabbienewb
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 10:17 pm
Re: LiveHermitCrabs.com
out of 2 straws and 6 bluesRocky wrote:While I think this is an awesome and important conversation to have, it's a little out of place here
What I want to know right now is, the most recent crabs people got from LHC, how are they doing??? Ok? Any molts?
I have the smaller straw down for a molt, and the smaller blue is down. and the one i was worried about has been down the longest.
big straw is up and running around, and the 4 blues up are still running, 1 isn't eating so much lately and i think may go down soon, the one with eye damage. the rest are still eating a lot so I don't think they are even ready to go down.
Re: LiveHermitCrabs.com
I have only had mine for two weeks (five ruggies and four straws). I had them in ISO for five days and then put them in the main tank. One ruggie died about 2 days later. I see 3 straws and 2 ruggies all the time and they appear to be doing great. The other three are either molting or destressing or hiding when I look. So far I am very happy with them.
3 pps, 7 straws, 3 ruggies and 1 e
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FloridaSun
- Posts: 77
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Re: LiveHermitCrabs.com
Rocky wrote:While I think this is an awesome and important conversation to have, it's a little out of place here
What I want to know right now is, the most recent crabs people got from LHC, how are they doing??? Ok? Any molts?
I have 4 small ruggies. 1 recently came up from a molt and the other 3 have been down for almost 3 weeks. Looking for their arrival back up everyday.
4 PP, 4 Ruggies
“I don’t trust anyone who doesn’t laugh.” ― Maya Angelou.
“I don’t trust anyone who doesn’t laugh.” ― Maya Angelou.
Re: LiveHermitCrabs.com
I got the last of the blues and I took in the injured ones. (Let me say I KNEW I was taking in the injured ones). 1 passed right away. 2 in iso, 1 down and 1 up. The 1 up is missing his BP. He gets around ok in iso but probably wouldn't in my big tank so he'll stay there as long as he needs to. 1 blue molting in the 60 and 1 up and running. Straws, rugs, violas and cavipes all doing well so far. I got this super tiny straw who is to cute for words!!! This is him on day 1. He switched to a tiny fusi and now he's in a tiny cantharus. I'm happy to have someone make use of my tiny shells.
It's a full house now! 8 straws, 7 pp, 5 indos, 5 ruggies, 3 violas, 4 fish, 1 dog, 3 kids, 1 husband and me!