Artemis, Day 14 carrying eggs

[Renroc]

If I am here and it is possible I will. Better get the aquarium silicone out and finally get the Kriesel tank done


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[mlakers]

Day One, Attempt #2:

Guess I'll start this all over again. I believe the record of attempts is at least as important as the record of successes.

To recap, this morning at 8am I found a patch of weird bluish "sand" near where the brooding female had been adjusting her eggs and hanging out for several days, but no zoeae in the saltwater pool. I wasn't sure it was eggs, but I decided it wouldn't hurt to try scooping them up and dropping them in the saltwater. They had been discarded near my "garden" where I have chia and other sprouts and some of wolfnipplechips' moose poo, so the sand was pretty gnarly and a lot of other stuff got in there with the eggs.

The eggs were super flat looking and kind of dehydrated, and they sank right to the bottom of the mason jar in a clump along with all the detritus from the tank. I added an airstone and turned it up to a pretty vigorous bubble and then I saw a few of the eggs pop their casings but the zoeae that emerged were pale and sank without moving. It was not promising in any way, and I thought about dumping the jar out, but then I decided it wouldn't hurt to leave them bubbling for a bit. I decided to check again in an hour.

An hour later, the eggs that remained in the jar were less flat (meaning rounder) but all the hatched zoeae appeared to be dead. I waited a bit longer, and then took my turkey baster and sucked out a sample. I shined the flashlight on the mess and saw some movement. Holy cow, survivors!

The more I looked, the more movement I saw and before I knew it there were squiggles everywhere. So it appears I have another shot at babies. This time around, I am going to try to neglect them more, just feed and water on a schedule and NOT obsess over every little change and not try to feed them everything I can think of. As of now, I'm not adding anything to the bottom of the jars (no sand, plants, or shells), and I'm keeping it all as simple as I can.

I will have to be gone for a few days next weekend, and when I do that I will probably put them in the five gallon with a bunch of airstones, reasoning that I will likely lose fewer in there (with more water that is likely to stay fresher) than I would in a mason jar with no water changes for a few days. Then when I get home I'll retrieve what survivors I can find and go back to the jars for however much longer I can keep them alive. It's not ideal, but it's what I've got and last time I did that, I came home to six survivors and I had only put 12 in there, so I know they can survive in some percentage.

I also have the water temperature at 78-80 this time around. Just trying to see how that affects growth and survivability. Tonight I added a tiny bit of chlorella, a miniscule shake of brine shrimp eggs, and a dash of spirulina.

[Renroc]

Nat and I have found that warmer water speeds up the development of the Aussie zoea and mega. Ideal temp for us is 28-30c


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[Renroc]

We are also lucky in that ours dont eat anything for the first few days till stage 2 zoea.


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[Renroc]

this is what I have to sort my shells for babies. These start at 2mm and go up in mm each division. I've put little bits of paper in to let me know which size in each box. They really love these litoria shells to start. Now moving into Babylonia of 9-12mm after 10mths.

[Renroc]

First shells were the size of the one where my finger is (or smaller) but they progressed to the other end fairly quickly. Have stayed in 6-8mm shells for months and months. Now looking at Babylonian shells about 10mm.


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[mlakers]

So cool!! Thank you!! I have my baby shells in baggies, but I love your sorting bin. I think I need one of those!

Good news on the temps. I'll bump mine up a bit.

[GotButterflies]

Best wishes!!!! So happy for you!!!!


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[mlakers]

Day Two, Attempt #2:

Not much to report. Numbers are all still good. They are turning greenish so I think they are consuming the spirulina. I still have way too many in the jars, so as I do water changes I've been moving some of the stragglers to the one gallon tank that I have set up. I know anything with corners isn't good, but I'm honestly doing this to get the numbers down instead of pouring them down the sink. They'll still likely die, but at least I won't have had to physically throw them away alive. I just don't seem capable of doing that...not even when I know that smaller numbers give the remaining ones a better shot at survival. I just can't make myself. It's hard enough to put them in the one gallon knowing what is likely to happen. This is the part where I would not make a good scientist. Too soft.

I'm going to continue to do 100% water changes at night and only give them a few brine shrimp eggs and some ground up betta pellets like renroc used. During the day I'll do more of the stuff that makes the water messy since I'll be doing water changes at more frequent intervals. I am still doing my best to NOT think about them when it isn't time for a change and NOT stop and stare and use my magnifying glass ten times a day to look for movement. Doing that inevitably makes me think I have to adjust this or feed that and fiddle with what is already working fine without my constant monitoring, meddling, and obsessing.

I am mostly succeeding.

I believe there are sheds in the water. Seems fast, but I thought the same thing last time, so I'm going to tentatively say we're at Stage Two. At least this time I know for sure that these are only eggs from one female and not several.

(I will not obsess. I will not obsess. I will not obsess. )

[Renroc]

100% water changes are really stressful on the zoea. I would really suggest rethinking that. Perhaps at least in one jar


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[mlakers]

100% water changes are really stressful on the zoea. I would really suggest rethinking that. Perhaps at least in one jar


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I'm curious. How did you deal with the mess that accumulates on the bottom of the jars? Did you just leave it and only change the water? I tried your method with the panty hose on one end, and I couldn't get any decent water flow, plus I couldn't suck up any of the chunks of food to remove them. How did you remove the dead zoeae and unbeaten pellets?

[mlakers]

Day Three, Attempt #2:

Everything is still fine. No sign of significant losses, just the occasional dead one here or there. I'm deliberately NOT doing a count because I'm trying not to focus on the numbers, but it won't stress me too much to say that there are at least 200 alive as of today, probably more. Not too bad, considering these were eggs cast onto the sand and forgotten for hours. I'm guessing the sand was moist enough to keep them from completely drying out (for two hours at the very least, eight at the most), and the temps weren't so different from what was inside the shell.

These little guys really amaze me. They are tenacious.

Part of my attempt to keep a balanced perspective this time around is skipping the picture taking (which is truly a struggle that takes a significant amount of time and emotional energy) and also not making detailed reports of everything I do. I may do that after the fact, but I have a hard time not taking every piece of well-meaning advice--or at the very least agonizing over NOT having taken it for hours--and I know from experience that can put me into a tailspin. I have a plan. I'm going to stick to the plan (with tweaks as necessary) and hopefully maintain my (semi-fragile) sanity during the upcoming weeks.

[Renroc]

100% water changes are really stressful on the zoea. I would really suggest rethinking that. Perhaps at least in one jar


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I'm curious. How did you deal with the mess that accumulates on the bottom of the jars? Did you just leave it and only change the water? I tried your method with the panty hose on one end, and I couldn't get any decent water flow, plus I couldn't suck up any of the chunks of food to remove them. How did you remove the dead zoeae and unbeaten pellets?

I ended up using a plastic drinking straw (more ridged) without the stocking and a airline tube. The straw made it easy to direct the suction to the gunge on the bottom. Always into a bowl and checked for escapees. Got pretty good at picked them out with medicine dropper. Dead zoea and mega are food for the others so I didn’t worry too much about removing them. Feed less so you have less waste.


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[mlakers]

Brilliant! Thank you, @renroc.

[GotButterflies]

@renroc Love the straw idea! Didn’t I read that pantyhose helped prevent you from sucking up zoeae as well?

@mlakers you can do this! Less stress is the route!!


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