My Straw (Perlatus) baby thread

[kuza]

Next question, transitional tanks, I have a 10 gallon I was going to use, is that enough? I can't find either of your transition tank, maybe I need to look harder.

[Nat_addicted to HC's]

I used what I had at home just so happens to be a 6.8 gal

[Curlz]

hello kuza,

in my first experiment with the Kreisel tank (see my documentation) I do have night and day cycle the frist days.
But even this is a kreisel tank with a stream to hold the larvae 'in the flow', the larvae went to the side where the light came from (I got a streetlamp outside at my house).
When they swimm to the light, they concentrate at one area - and this is no good. (some of our german saltwater-animal-breeders confirmed that)
To hold them in the middle of the Kreisel tank the light was on 24/7 after some days. I use a special water lamp for aquarium (Nano).


you worte:

You also mention you used your second jar to move the zoea instead of doing water changes, so that's where you sucked them up in your eye droppers and just put them i the new jar, every day?

In Nat's case this worked, because the larvae develop extremely fast and only cross 2 stages. All other species need more care. (unfortunately)

In my opinion you have to chance water very often, even if you got a second, third or 10th jar
And you injure them when you move them in a new jar every day. Very risky.


My kreisel tank is 1.32 gallons (5 liters).
In a bigger tank you must have a really good stream flow.
And more food, because they do not really hunt their food. The catch while the food swimm near them. (more water, more difficult to catch food)
Less water means more cleaning! But in my opiniton: even in a bigger tank a daily cleaning has to be done.

my advice:
Use this 10 gallon tank to put in fresh water and the heater (26°C = 78.. In this tank use a Kreisel tank. You can build it like mine or try to use such a jar like Nat is using.
Important is a nonstop stream. Not to hard not to easy. To hold the larvae in a flow and to hold the off the ground. But they must be able to swimm by their own. Is not that easy to explain. But in my documentation and in my picasa album are some videos to show how my kreisel works.(see below)


And even if this is not easy: do not out in all larvae into a tank! Only 50-100. So that they all got the best chance to get enough food.


I only use one kreisel. And one transition tank.
my transition tank is a running crabitat with a big pool in it. Pool is 1,32 gallons, too. This pool is a case which stands in another bigger case. The bigger case is filled with water and the heater. So that the pool will be heaten without any electric equipment in it (only a bubbler). There is a link in my docus aswell.
When the larvae transmoph to megalopa stage I put them into the transition pool. Because megalopa will eat the larvae! Even if they got enough food.


Water chance:
In my tank we shut down the light, hold a light on one side. The larve swimm to this side.
Then we use a tube with a net/mesh at the end. (I used a piece of a silk tight). With this tube we carefully draw the water out of the tank. In a glas bowl to check if larvae has come through the mesh.
Then we cleaned the sides of the kreisel and put in temperatured new saltwater in the tank. Again, carefully with a tube. (this time we drawd salt water out of the salt water can)
Every day. For weeks. (that is what most of other salt water animal breeders do while breeding difficult species.) Depends on the food and the animal.






I think it is the best way to read my docus and have a look at my pictures and videos. It is hard for me to explain it all in englisch without showin it live, you know?
Even in german it is difficult to comprehend when you have not done this stuff by yourself.

See second video: the running kreisel (6th experiment - failed)
https://picasaweb.google.com/1120608556 ... directlink

See some videos/picture of the kreisel and transition tank(new) of my 5th failed experiment:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1120608556 ... directlink

and here you will find some videos and pictures of the kreisel, too (last pictures)
https://picasaweb.google.com/1120608556 ... directlink


and sorry for the "wall of text" again
it is a very complex and complicate experiment.

[kuza]

I say "bring on the wall of text!", this is all great info!

I would like to make a tank like you'rs, curlz but I think it would be tough to make 3-4 of them in this short time. It will be easier to do the Jar meathod like NAT, and I have most of the items to do it this way.

Here's what I have planned, hopefully it's a good setup. 29 gallon for the outer tank. I will have 5 larger 1 gallon jars in it, 3 for the zoea and 2 for water changes. All 5 being heated by the 29 gallon water and heater.

I want to do 3-4 Jars just for the zoea so if I mess up one of them, I still have 3 jars going strong. I hope splitting them up the water will get less dirty and I can afford more "error" which I'm good at

My transition tank will be a 10 gallon tank with some sort of large tupperware or glass bowl. I will keep this heated with an UTH and use the water from my heated jars in the 29 gallon. (The reason I want 2 extra water only jars, so I can use one for filling the transitions tank and one for filling the zoea jars.)
My only issue for this tank is how the megapole will climb out of the water to the sand area. Do I need to build a ramp or will jsut some objects in the water be enough. They will take shells before they go on land, right?


Does this make sense?

[Rocky]

In the transition tank, I believe curlz used something as simple as a large bridge like chunk of coconut shell I think anything they can get a grip on, but not with cracks and crevices for them to get stuck in, that would lead them from the water to the land would work.
But you could make a ramp really easily, just a thin layer of two part epoxy or aquarium safe silicone over a piece of plastic or glass or plexiglass of your choice, and some course sand to press into it, and voila Unless I'm mistaken, I think wode made a ramp this way (only she used plexiglass)

[wodesorel]

Make sure to toss a bubbler or a filter on the actual 29 gallon to keep the water moving. The heater will cause some movement just from convection, but it's not enough to make the temp even throughout. If you just put a heater in a stagnant tank then you'll end up with a super hot spot above it and room temp water on the far end.

[kuza]

ahh ok, thanks for the tips!!

[Curlz]

be carefull with filters. Or pumps. The suction is too hard mostely.


Yey, RockyGurly, I used a piece of wood (for sea water) for climbing out of the water. They are clever enough to use it!
As you can see in my pictures. (sorry I do not know the name of the wood)

A piece of cork, a mangrove root (? sorry I do not know the word for it) or something like that will work.

[wodesorel]

be carefull with filters. Or pumps. The suction is too hard mostely.

Not in the tank/jar with the babies! It would go in the water that surrounds the jars the babies are in. (Does that make more sense?)

[kuza]

I'm wondering what's the best way to move the water around in the outside heating tank. Would a filter be enough?

[Curlz]

hm I do not really understand. Why do you want to move the 'outside' water?
Not need to. A heater will warm up the water without moving water.

It is only important to have a stream in the jar (or whatever will be used) with the larvae. To protect them to swimm on the flow or in the corners of the floor.
This may can be done with a bubbler. Or with a tube on an airpump ( to get single bubbles coming out, one by one) the get a stream.

[kuza]

I think she's saying the water will not be evenly warm if the water is not moving so one side of the tank will be very hot and the other side cool. I understand about the moving water for the zoea is a different thing. I will post pictures of my setup soon, it's almost done.

[wodesorel]

Anything that would keep the water from being stagnant would work. Doesn't have to be a filter, it could be a cheap powerhead or even a bubbler. Anything to get the water moving past where the heater will be. There's always extra parts in this house, so I was hoping you might have something that's sitting around unused that would work.

[Nat_addicted to HC's]

The natural convection kept mine an even temp, but obviously my kreisel was on a smaller scale than you are setting up kuza, i kept the main tank clean with partial changes but nothing too drastic to change the temp. Obviously for those breeding some of the other species that dont have an abbreviated development would need to have their kreisel running for a much longer period and it could become foul in the main tank (not the zoea/ocean vessel) an airstone would help increase natural convection & oxygenate the water & if there is room for a filter it could assist.

[kuza]

I have a few spare items around that came with the random tanks I've purchased. So I found a self driven filter I can use for cleaning and moving water in the 29 gal heating tank. I have it on top of the heater and it pours water to the middle of the tank.


I'm thinking of isolating the mamma in a type of transition tank with a much larger temporary salt water pool and a shallow fresh water dish. I'm just not sure if this will stress her out too much.