Zoea *successful captive breeding & rearing of C. variabilis

This area is dedicated to the pioneers who have captive bred crabs, and for those who wish to learn more or attempt it themselves. Also for inquiring about the gender of your crabs.
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Element
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Re: Zoea

Post by Element » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:48 am

aussieJJDude wrote: That isn't entirely correct. What if the crab was mistreated before it arrived to you? It would take some time for the crab to trust you...
Considering how difficult and time consuming it appears to be to keep them alive past the first few stages, I think it will only be true crab lovers that will be breeding them for awhile :) I don't think big businesses would see a reason to set up such complex tanks when they can cheaply harvest them by the masses. So I guess I was assuming the babies would come from someone caring and loving like Nat, with posts along each stage so we can see their development.
Proud mommy of two PPs and two Es: Arsenic, Radon, Mercury, Fluorine

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wodesorel
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Re: Zoea

Post by wodesorel » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:25 am

There is precedent in the reptile world for this sort of thing. At one point it was cheaper and easier to import a lot of species, but hardcore keepers realized that it wasn't sustainable (and wanted the challenge :) ) and worked hard on captive breeding programs. Captive bred reptiles - which were healthier and younger than their wild caught counterparts - sold for more, but only to other hardcore keepers who realized their value. However, as wild populations dwindled and CITES restricted exportation, captive bred became the only option. And as breeding programs flourished, the prices came down to a level where everyone could afford them.

Of course, the opposite is also true. Captive bred emperor scorpions often sell for much less than their wild counterparts. Wild caught adults are much more flashy and spectacular looking than subadult captive bred, and since it takes up to 2 years to get a full-grown scorpion, breeders often can't hold on to them that long before selling them, and since they're puny looking they can't ask as much for them. :( (Technically these scorpions can't be "wild caught", but they're collected from "breeding" ranches in Africa instead of being bred within the US.)


With hermit crab babies, there will be a huge learning curve in rehoming them safely. We also don't know how long it would take to get them to a size where it would be safe to transport them or ship them to a new home. It might be a four year commitment before they're sturdy enough!

I've already told my husband I will be getting one crab from the first batch of USA born hermits. :) I don't care what the cost is! I'm secretly hoping they'll be my own crabs so I don't have to worry about the price. :lol: And if I do get babies, I do plan on finding them new homes when it's (mostly likely) safe to do so. Yes, keeping all of them would be spectacular, but we would learn nothing from it. I would keep a small amount to observe (and drool over) myself, and the rest will be sold with the caveat that the new owners will have to log molts and check in regularly about their health and growth and the conditions they're being kept in. We need to learn as much as possible about not just getting zoea, but also about how young hermits develop so that we can continue to expand our knowledge about hermits and breeding. :)
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HermieLuv<3
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Re: Zoea

Post by HermieLuv<3 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:41 am

This is all sooo AMAZING! :yippee: I'm jealous! But ya'll remember us who supported and cheered for you when you re-home your first batch! Hehe :D . I'm routing for your success...for all of you who have gotten close! :luck::

Yay! Keep the updates! And thanks for the pictures....so cool! :wink: :clap:
I have 13 cutie PP's. :-P
& 4 funny & adorable E's!


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Re: Zoea

Post by Happy Crabber » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:38 am

Wooohoooo! I'd shell out for a captive bred hermit (or 2 or 3)! I love Wode's idea of tracking their growth and molts. Keep up the good work!
AKA: hermitmommy
PP: Scieny, Hermione, Hermasaurus Rex, Kitty, Cat, Twyla, Jupiter
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Element
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Re: Zoea

Post by Element » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:54 am

By the way Nat, I had some questions about your set up if you don't mind me asking. I do apologize if you have already explained it somewhere, I have been reading this daily and didn't see the answers anywhere yet :)
You posted your new photo additions on page 3, so you basically just have 2 jars that you swap the babies between so you can do daily water change? That is a really brilliant idea! I just had a few questions about your set up. From what it looks like to me, you have the main tank (freshwater?) with two jars inside it (saltwater) with airpumps inside the jars to create the constant moving water. I see your heater stick and thermometer in the main tank and a lamp for the constant light source. Did I miss anything? I love reading these, and so far your setup seems the simplest to make. I was worried about having to creating a Kreisel tank.
They are so cute, and you are doing such an awesome job!! You are lucky to have live zoea so many times! Your habitat must be perfect for them :)
Proud mommy of two PPs and two Es: Arsenic, Radon, Mercury, Fluorine

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Re: Zoea

Post by Nat_addicted to HC's » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:06 pm

Element wrote:By the way Nat, I had some questions about your set up if you don't mind me asking. I do apologize if you have already explained it somewhere, I have been reading this daily and didn't see the answers anywhere yet :)
You posted your new photo additions on page 3, so you basically just have 2 jars that you swap the babies between so you can do daily water change? That is a really brilliant idea! I just had a few questions about your set up. From what it looks like to me, you have the main tank (freshwater? YES) with two jars inside it (saltwater YES) with airpumps inside the jars to create the constant moving water. I see your heater stick and thermometer in the main tank and a lamp for the constant light source. Did I miss anything? NO I love reading these, and so far your setup seems the simplest to make. I was worried about having to creating a Kreisel tank.
They are so cute, and you are doing such an awesome job!! You are lucky to have live zoea so many times! Your habitat must be perfect for them :)
Hey! you are spot on with my rearing set up, Next time I will use jars that are cylindrical so there is no void in the corners though as I've noticed lag in that area, I've searched out some jars :idea: , now to get my mum and mother in-law to drink the coffee (I don't drink it) so I can use the jars lol!
I spent most of yesterday working out how to build a kreisel tank with the help of a plastic store in the city, made out of acrylic, out of my price range at the moment so will have to wait and see, but can be done easily enough, I've always wanted to build my own tanks (this way I can have more at a fraction of the cost) If I get one to land this time I will build a Kreisel with 2 chambers.
My next challenge will be the transition tank on a budget (with what I already have at hand if possible), I have a small tank that is my iso tank (that ive not yet needed), I could set this up....... but where do I start and I am reluctant to do it just yet, in case I spend hours crying over a failed attempt you see, so I am building it in my head, but it all depends on how many are successful in reaching megalopa, curlz transition tank looks easy enough & Alan Harvey used a shell with salt water in for the megalopa to climb out of, Like I said it really depends on how many there are.
The eye dropper thingo for moving them from one jar to another is also good for fishing out the dead :-/......... There is over 100 still alive at the moment! So no panic yet.
My tank (it was an old aquarium hence the stains that don't come off and show more in the humidity grrrr) that I call their Crabitat (I reckon a few others refer to it as this too lol) is way smaller than I would like it to be, I want water areas like some of you guys have! you know with like salt water beach and pool area, Larger water dishes and more climbing things (I have a massive piece of gnarly old vine wood, but I wont risk disturbing the substrate to put it in, it will have to wait and go in my dream crabitat) and a basking area, need new moss for the moss pit & must get to the beach and hunt out some more pheasant shells as they are a fav (light weight and easy for them to mod inside) oh the list goes on....
Image
Its a 4ft (48x16x21 in inches)
Image
I usually have fresh sprouts (alfalfa, sesame and sunflower) growing for them too, although at the moment none are ready for a night of total destruction.
Its so hard to make changes once they are in, I don't like disturbing them, I try to be as quick and quiet about feeding and water changes as I can be, I'm pretty sure I'm a giant seagull in their eyes and don't my fingers know it. CV's can be total tank trashers too, Ive found the least changes the better, when I moved water dishes it took ages for them to reorient themselves again so I decided that everything stays where it is until I develop a new tank, I put sprouts in the exact same spot and the same with food. I could easily have more crabs in here too but I refuse to support the local pet shop like that, the more I buy/rescue the more that will replace them :-/
The conditions in my crabitat fluctuate too, If Im not home then the house gets very warm (I turn the largest heater off in summer unless the air con is on [ducted cooling]), sometimes its 35 degrees celcius or higher and the crabs are happily basking under the UV light and they are right up high on the mopani against the heater that is always on, in winter I do not let it go under 20, all heaters are on and I top up substrate moisture & humidity (I use a spray bottle) as needed as our heating dries out the tank more than summer.
I was lucky enough just recently to go fishing in the Northern Territory, we stayed at Manangrida in Arnhemland, while out fishing in the tidal estuaries I had my eyes fixed on the bank and in the mangroves looking for my favourite little guys (not saltwater crocs!), I could see little holes all about the place but not much activity, later in the day though I spotted a few, like all fishing trips that have a lady onboard the time eventually arises that a toilet stop is necessary and I didn't fancy hanging over the edge of a low to the water fishing vessel to pee when we had seen so many crocs about and a boat load of men, my husband included, we had lost several barramundi including Lures to hungry crocs so decided the safest thing was to find high ground, when I had about 500 sand flee bites and finally found somewhere out of eye sight with my husband standing beside (spotting for crocs) me I was able relieve myself (I was absolutely thankful, guys you have it easy) I jumped up in shock there were hundreds of CV's all around me in tunnels between my feet everywhere peering out :oops: I was so overwhelmed with the sight I had tears in my eyes, I didnt want to leave, I wanted to stay and watch them for ever. I took note on what was around and boarded the boat, wont ever forget and look forward to going again in the future.
Hope this answers some of your questions, sorry about babbling on & on, I will update you on the zoea as soon as anything changes :wink: or I think of something relevant
Natalie van Amstel

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it's about how you danced in the rain!

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aussieJJDude
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Re: Zoea

Post by aussieJJDude » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:24 pm

Wow, your tank has changed a lot since I saw it on HCP. But I still like it! :D
Do you find that the crabs prefer the UV light or do they just like light, full stop?
Congrats on seeing the crabs in the wild, I would have done more then tears in my eyes, I would of got shells that my crabs aren't using and given it to them! :D
How do you make those ladders? They look so cool, do your crabs use them alot? :D
What is your crabs fav shells besides phaisianella that fit the larger sized crabs, 2 of my larger crabs refuse to change shell, even though they are half out! :D
Sorry for a whole lot a questions, but once I see an experienced aussie owner (Like you) I need to ask "a few" questions. :)
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Re: Zoea

Post by Nat_addicted to HC's » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:02 pm

AussieJJDude, its pretty ordinary now really :(, the crabs are molting like mad, eating masses and breeding so they must be happy. I would love to have a massive tank with all the trimmings but Im realistic, Im not made of money, one day though I will get a massive one!
I figure with lighting they are in high UV in the tropics so it must be necessary, When I first switched to the UV globe their colour darkened heaps and they spent a lot of time right under it. tnt4eva & I spoke about lighting a while back, we had both noticed a rise in activity too.
The shells that were on the beach in the top end that I found (not many I must say) were discarded, with holes in them but were very light weight and had been modified lots. I try to find shells like that now that are light weight, I have turbos, sharks eye, babylonia & many others but they are not interested, they would rather try on 50 different pheasant shells and other snail shells, I guess as they get bigger they are going to need to try some of the others so I keep them in there. I don't have a personal preference. I have to keep looking for pheasant shells as they sometimes manage to break the end off the spiral and then need to change and wont.
The ladders I made from a Bird ladder and Jute string, non bleached natural stuff, a few knots and crab ladders it is, yes they use them all the time! but need replacing as the jute gets eaten..... I had rope climbs and nets everywhere but in a few months it is chewed to pieces so I took them out, oh and they rot from the humidity too & they were trying to eat the suction caps I used to hang them off the glass.
Natalie van Amstel

Life isn't about how you survived the storm...
it's about how you danced in the rain!

Australia's Online Land Hermit Crab Food,Treats and Accessories Store
CURRENTLY CLOSED SORRY
http://www.ihavecrabs.com.au

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HermieLuv<3
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Re: Zoea

Post by HermieLuv<3 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:56 pm

Awesome tank! Very creative... What did you use as the columns under the upper levels? Its beautiful! :)
I have 13 cutie PP's. :-P
& 4 funny & adorable E's!

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Re: Zoea

Post by Nat_addicted to HC's » Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:52 pm

HermieLuv<3 wrote:Awesome tank! Very creative... What did you use as the columns under the upper levels? Its beautiful! :)
Its PVC Pipe, storm water pipe/plumbing pipe, smaller diameter though, stuck together with aquarium silicone, It didn't hold for long (the container needed roughing up more for it to stick successfully) but once it was in and surrounded by substrate the legs stayed put, so now I can take the top off and the residual silicon kind of acts like lugs for the tray to stay stable on, so basically I can take the moss pit and shell shop out to clean etc and put back in and on the legs and it stays stable no probs at all. Years ago I used it as hides in the Axolotil tank :D
Image
image on file from when I made them :wink:
Natalie van Amstel

Life isn't about how you survived the storm...
it's about how you danced in the rain!

Australia's Online Land Hermit Crab Food,Treats and Accessories Store
CURRENTLY CLOSED SORRY
http://www.ihavecrabs.com.au

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Re: Zoea

Post by Nat_addicted to HC's » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:05 am

Happy Crabber wrote:Wooohoooo! I'd shell out for a captive bred hermit (or 2 or 3)! I love Wode's idea of tracking their growth and molts. Keep up the good work!
If I could of started with captive bred crabs I would have even if it took me longer to save for them :D
Im hoping I get the chance to track their growth and development :wink: perhaps you guys and gals can point out some things I should be keeping track of so I can do a spreadsheet for the future?
Thanks for the positive feedback! It means heaps to me :hearts:
Natalie van Amstel

Life isn't about how you survived the storm...
it's about how you danced in the rain!

Australia's Online Land Hermit Crab Food,Treats and Accessories Store
CURRENTLY CLOSED SORRY
http://www.ihavecrabs.com.au

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Re: Zoea

Post by Nat_addicted to HC's » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:08 am

AussieJJDude - I am more than happy to answer any questions I can :)

I love my crabs and am happy to share with all of you! Also happy to take on board new ideas and constructive criticism!!
Natalie van Amstel

Life isn't about how you survived the storm...
it's about how you danced in the rain!

Australia's Online Land Hermit Crab Food,Treats and Accessories Store
CURRENTLY CLOSED SORRY
http://www.ihavecrabs.com.au

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Re: Zoea

Post by Nat_addicted to HC's » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:17 am

HermieLuv<3 wrote:This is all sooo AMAZING! :yippee: I'm jealous! But ya'll remember us who supported and cheered for you when you re-home your first batch! Hehe :D . I'm routing for your success...for all of you who have gotten close! :luck::

Yay! Keep the updates! And thanks for the pictures....so cool! :wink: :clap:
I know sooooooooo Amazing Eeeeeeek! I will remember all of you who have supported me, cheered/rooted for me, provided valuable information, tips, ideas and I wish some of you were closer so I could share with you on a more personal level, I would love some of my captive bred crabs (please let me get that far eventually even if not now) to be owned and loved by you guys, people that are amazingly passionate about our little crustaceans and who I know would do their very best look after them.
Natalie van Amstel

Life isn't about how you survived the storm...
it's about how you danced in the rain!

Australia's Online Land Hermit Crab Food,Treats and Accessories Store
CURRENTLY CLOSED SORRY
http://www.ihavecrabs.com.au

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Rocky
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Re: Zoea

Post by Rocky » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:31 am

HermieLuv<3 wrote:This is all sooo AMAZING! :yippee: I'm jealous! But ya'll remember us who supported and cheered for you when you re-home your first batch! Hehe :D . I'm routing for your success...for all of you who have gotten close! :luck::

Yay! Keep the updates! And thanks for the pictures....so cool! :wink: :clap:
Yes.. don't forget us when you're swamped with tiny hermits ;)
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Re: Zoea

Post by aussieJJDude » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:37 am

Thanks for answering my questions.
I might have to look into UV lights.... your crabs seem so active :shock: Mine refuse to eat the suction cups... *forces suction cups into there shells*
I would love to have a few of your lil guys, but because of the distance, it won't happen :(
You need crits! There is nothing to crit beside that your tank is too good! :D
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