HCA: Hermit Crab Association

I just had a thought. Hermit Crabs live on the beach and breed on the beach, and the idea that if you give them the right conditions in captivity they will breed. We give them sand, salt water to lay their eggs in, some food to forage for in the tank, stable heat and humidity levels, stimulation, and a day/night cycle to keep them happy, healthy, engaged, and then we hope they breed. What are we missing that they have in their natrual environment? I've read many people that have deeper water dishes get eggs, and it makes me think that the more water available the more change they are to breed, just think, it's closer to nature, they have an entire ocean in nature! I still felt like we were missing something, and then it hit me, noise! Would a sound machine that made wave sounds be beneficial to crabs if sat by there tank? Would it add extra stimulation? Would it encourage mating? Would it do anything? It's an interesting theory indeed, and I would love to get one and do a little independent study on this, what are your guy's opinions? Has anyone ever done with before? I would love Mlakers' opinion on this, as well as any other hermit crab captive breeder here at HCA!

~ KyMart

Mary has detailed all of her attempts and successes with breeding. There are so many physical challenges that have been described by her and the other couple of captive breeders, that I am certain the lack of ocean noise is not an issue. Have you read Mary's info?

curlysister wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 16, 2023 11:26 pm

Mary has detailed all of her attempts and successes with breeding. There are so many physical challenges that have been described by her and the other couple of captive breeders, that I am certain the lack of ocean noise is not an issue. Have you read Mary's info?

I have read some of it, yes! I just wonder if the ocean noises would stimulate them in a way they don't have in captivity that they do in their natrual environment, so I just wanted others opinions! I'm not saying that it does, I'm say that I have a theory that it might, and I have never heard of anyone doing this, so I wanted opinions!

During the Morphology presentation at CrabCon, it came up that hermit crabs likely can't hear sound through the air as we/birds/dogs/etc do and most likely feel vibrations instead. Thus youd have to turn on the sound machine quite loud to have it reverberate through the glass and the substrate, and even louder for the vibrations through the air to be deteactable. At that point, it would likely stress them out to have their tank constantly vibrating.

Most people who have multiple crabs will get eggs once a year. heck, my lone crab has eggs a couple times a year. It's not the production of eggs or mating that's the problem, it's the lack of an actual ocean to inspire them to drop them in an appropriate location. Eggs just end up smeared around the tank or eaten instead.

myllkti wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:41 pm

During the Morphology presentation at CrabCon, it came up that hermit crabs likely can't hear sound through the air as we/birds/dogs/etc do and most likely feel vibrations instead. Thus youd have to turn on the sound machine quite loud to have it reverberate through the glass and the substrate, and even louder for the vibrations through the air to be deteactable. At that point, it would likely stress them out to have their tank constantly vibrating.

Interesting! I was wondering about sound with them, very cool!

wodesorel wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 17, 2023 6:40 pm

Most people who have multiple crabs will get eggs once a year. heck, my lone crab has eggs a couple times a year. It's not the production of eggs or mating that's the problem, it's the lack of an actual ocean to inspire them to drop them in an appropriate location. Eggs just end up smeared around the tank or eaten instead.

That's what I thought, which is why I mentioned the large water pools! I wonder if there would be a way to replicate the vibrations they hear in nature by the water pools to draw them to them to lay the eggs, I feel that the more comfortable and close to nature their tank is, the more likely they are to breed and drop their eggs in the appropriate place.

KyMart wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 17, 2023 9:37 pm

Interesting! I was wondering about sound with them, very cool!

I know right? I had more questions (how do they distinguish vibrations? DO they distinguish them? How do they percieve them??) but there's not enough time in the world to get inside another species' head to the extent my curiosity wants to lol

myllkti wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 17, 2023 11:52 pm

I know right? I had more questions (how do they distinguish vibrations? DO they distinguish them? How do they percieve them??) but there's not enough time in the world to get inside another species' head to the extent my curiosity wants to lol

For real! I feel that! I wonder how they provide them and if providing simulator vibrations in the crabitat would be beneficial to them, how we could do that, and what it would do?

myllkti wrote:During the Morphology presentation at CrabCon, it came up that hermit crabs likely can't hear sound through the air as we/birds/dogs/etc do and most likely feel vibrations instead. Thus youd have to turn on the sound machine quite loud to have it reverberate through the glass and the substrate, and even louder for the vibrations through the air to be deteactable. At that point, it would likely stress them out to have their tank constantly vibrating.

If this was the senses talk that was part of crabcon 2022, this was done in collaboration with Kelsey and myself. And yes, crabs hearing is distinct from ourselves, but in a way, very similar!

Our ears respond to sound waves (air) through vibrations of little hair cells within our ear, which is the basis of how our crabs 'hear'.... but use the setae and overall 'fuzz' on their body that responds to environmental stimuli. But they are capable in 'hearing' from sound waves, its just they are more adjusted in 'hearing' through the ground in comparison to ourselves.



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aussieJJDude wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 24, 2023 7:40 am

If this was the senses talk that was part of crabcon 2022, this was done in collaboration with Kelsey and myself. And yes, crabs hearing is distinct from ourselves, but in a way, very similar!

I actually was not referring to that particular talk but it sounds super interesting and I will be sure to go check it out! Thanks!

aussieJJDude wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 24, 2023 7:40 am

If this was the senses talk that was part of crabcon 2022, this was done in collaboration with Kelsey and myself. And yes, crabs hearing is distinct from ourselves, but in a way, very similar!

Our ears respond to sound waves (air) through vibrations of little hair cells within our ear, which is the basis of how our crabs 'hear'.... but use the setae and overall 'fuzz' on their body that responds to environmental stimuli. But they are capable in 'hearing' from sound waves, its just they are more adjusted in 'hearing' through the ground in comparison to ourselves.



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This is so cool! I have a question for you! Do you think that if we could replicate the sound waves crabs hear in nature in captivity that it would add extra stimulation and be beneficial to them? Do you have any ideas on how we could do this? There is so much to cover, and I think that it's a great point to talk about, which is why I shared it! This whole theory of mine is based on the notion that if you give crabs an environment in captivity that is close to their natrual environment they are more likely to breed. I think that this is very true, as many of the worlds top hermit crab captive breeders use care methods that do a good job of replicating nature. I feel that if we can find other ways to replicate nature within captivity we should, this is a thing we try to do with so many other animals. Providing animals with the kind stimulation that they get in nature can be very beneficial to their overall health, happiness, and much more! We have to make sure that this is a good kind of stimulation though, in order for it to be beneficial. I am very aware that many crabs produce eggs every years, but very few of them name it to land, and I wonder why that is? What if it's a source problem? What if the eggs are not are less fertile due to lack of natrual stimulation? Many animals have proven to be less fertile in captivity due to natrual stimulation, and breeders have worked very hard to replicate those stimulations, which in many cases has increased fertility. I also feel that some crabs are more fertile then others, just like some humans are more fertile then others! There are so many different theories as to what the best way to care for hermit crabs is, and so many different methods for caring for zoeae, and we learn more about both of these every year through trial and error. I feel that if we talk more about these theories and continue to test them we will learn so much more about these amazing animals. There is so much about them we have yet to understand, and I feel that we should explore them every chance we get.

I haven't read a ton of Mary Aker's info, but from my understanding the breeding isn't really the issue in captivity, it is getting the baby crabs to survive from the larvae stage in water until they get to the stage where they are on land. This involves some pretty intense care including different tanks, water changes, etc.

curlysister wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:10 am

I haven't read a ton of Mary Aker's info, but from my understanding the breeding isn't really the issue in captivity, it is getting the baby crabs to survive from the larvae stage in water until they get to the stage where they are on land. This involves some pretty intense care including different tanks, water changes, etc.

I understand that, I am talking more about increasing egg numbers per year to hopefully get more to land, a lot of the eggs don't make it, whatever stage that be in, but if there where more eggs each year, aka more breeding, captive breeders would hopefully be able to land more captive bred babies.

KyMart wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:59 pm

I understand that, I am talking more about increasing egg numbers per year to hopefully get more to land, a lot of the eggs don't make it, whatever stage that be in, but if there where more eggs each year, aka more breeding, captive breeders would hopefully be able to land more captive bred babies.

Interesting idea. Though since there are pleeeenty of eggs, it seems more urgent to improve the helping-the-eggs-survive part that is the bigger struggle, at least to start. more zoea are also more maintenance, so if there isnt the techniques/supplies/time/energy/whatever, it could backfire a bit, i think. I am ofc no expert but I love playing around with ideas, so have enjoyed pondering this. Thanks for sharing!