Why do many here think Indo's NEED saltwater?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:01 am

Thamster-
I'm not assuming that anyone knows anything less than I. If that is what came across, I appologize. All that I was asking from you was a comment on the data within that article that shows the salinity levels in PPs and Indos systems and shell water. If you look at my third post in this thread, I never stated that they drank sea water in the wild, but that they got it from their diet. If the salinity concentration can be higher in a PP than a Cavipe, why would we not offer PPs salt water? If they get it from their diet, why don't we suggest members keep it available? A bowl of sea water would replace the salt they would have gotton in the wild. We don't have sea salt residue on the food they eat, nor in their environment at all unless a dish of salt water is made available. I understand that experience plays a huge role in crab care and I am in no way trying to undermine that. Although this research is somewhat dated, Greenaway's synthesis is the most thorough article I've seen thus far. If you could point me to more recent information that explains otherwise, please do. I'm not attacking anyone's methods, in fact, I have the same methods as Luvvin does. I was merely asking why she would suggest otherwise to members.
Again, sorry if I offended you.
Thanks

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:25 am

No offense taken at all. Just want to prevent this from turning into an argument, what with the challenging of sources.

Regarding the salinity concentration, keep in mind that's blood salinity concentration. We shouldn't deduce too much from that without understanding how's that's related to sea water intake. Higher blood salinity in PP can mean, as you said, that PP also take in salt water (more than C. cavipes?). It can also mean that C. cavipes are better at metabolizing salt out of their blood (and C. clypeatus less so), so they can can better use salt water, whereas PPs have trouble with it so they are not good salt water users. We'll probably never know, it would not be cost effective to spend the money to study something like that.

But I've believe we're saying the same thing.

I've always said having a dish of salt water around doesn't hurt.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:33 pm

Thamster-
Thank you very much for the reply. I really appreciate your input on salinity concentration. It seems more logical that PPs are less adapted to using it, but we really will never know.
Unfortunately, there are not enough figures for the shell water salinity levels, but it does show that all land hermies keep sea water in their shells to prevent evaporation. Is there anything we can deduce from that information?
I think we are saying the same thing. Obviously, each of us feels that we should keep sea water for all our crabs, even if they only use it sparingly. Since most experienced crabbers do this, it seems like a good idea to advise other crabbers to do the same. Thats all I'm really trying to accomplish here.
Again, thank you for your input.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:10 pm

I'm saying that Indo's should not be classified as exotics when people are advising other people about crab care. No, it doesn't hurt to have a dish of saltwater around for any crab, but like I said before, if someone only has Indo's and/or PP's then people don't need to harass them to get Instant Ocean IMMEDIATELY or else they will DIE. Do you know what I mean?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:22 pm

Luvvin-
I know exactly what you mean. I totally take your point and I do appologize to you too if it seemed that I was argueing. I think we all see that there can be some benefit in giving them all sea water, but it's not something that is life or death for Indos or PPs.
May the crabs be with you!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:56 am

I think the issue here is that the original post was very direct and to the point in saying Indos donâ€™t ever need salt water for any reason. Blanket statements about crab care rarely pan out. Iâ€™m glad Crabaddict challenged that post and had the information to back it up. It looks at this point like we agree that virtually all types of crabs should be given a choice between fresh and salt water at the earliest convenience to the crab owner and the evidence seems to point to the fact that even Indos do in fact need some form of salt intake in their diet, which contradicts the original post.

Truthfully, I think some people are getting really caught up in this â€œestablished memberâ€

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:10 am

personally i m starting to c some confusion here. Here's how i c it. correct me if im wrong. (no really, pls correct me)

Indo's and PP's live inland giving them them complete access to freshwater. However, this doesnt mean they dont have SOME acces to salt water as well.just because they live inland, doesnt mean they cant visit the beach. in the migration to disperse their eggs, they have complete access to salt water which means they can drink it.

PP's and Indo's dont NEED salt water to survive all their life, but considering everything about thier life in the wild compared to their life in captavity, it would be good for them if u did give them.
i confused my self,(LoL) let me restate...They dont need it to live, but it helps them in their growth.

any comments...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:22 am

I think I'm at my comment limit here, but I totally agree!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:30 pm

BadAce wrote:Indo's and PP's live inland giving them them complete access to freshwater.

PP's and Indo's dont NEED salt water to survive all their life, but considering everything about thier life in the wild compared to their life in captavity, it would be good for them if u did give them.
i confused my self,(LoL) let me restate...They dont need it to live, but it helps them in their growth.

any comments...

Well, I don't know about Indos but PPs can certainly live within inches away from salt-water. On some islands on the Florida Keys they don't have any fresh-water except when it rains (which is not that often at times) and therefore, I believe they do need salt-water.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:45 pm

they need water to live in general, which is y they drink the saltwater as well. I was just saying they dont desperately need salt watr in specific to live a full life.

Dawn · Post by **Dawn** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:51 pm

I believe anything that returns to the ocean for ANY reason should be provided with salt water or ocean mixed water in it's habitat. Even if that is only between September and October each year to throw their eggs in the water. Give them the salt water. They'll get it when they need it if you provide it.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:47 pm

Laura_B wrote:Someone who has had crabs for a month and has really done their homework can very well know more than someone who has had crabs for years but doesnâ€™t bother reading the research.

I agree, but we should be careful about challenging each other, especially when the knowledge/experience level of the person you're responding to is not known. As a side thought, the problem with research is that many of them aren't geared towards towards husbandry of hermit crabs, and many are quite dated, so the applicability towards husbandry techniques may not be appropriate. I know that for iguanas, research mentioned in nature they consume insects (they are primarily herbivores), but captive iguanas fed insects often develop kidney problems. Quite often with certain pets, scientific research lags behind knowledge gained from experienced hobbyists. There are many ways of keeping hermits, we shouldn't dismiss years of experience with research done from a scientific standpoint versus a husbandry standpoint.