HCA: Hermit Crab Association

I've been using the TopFin Water Conditioner, which says "helps neutralize harmful ammonia, chloramine, and chlorine" and "helps remove copper and other heavy metals" *picture below*

Now, first of all, I don't like that it says "helps" hahaha maybe all water conditioners have to say that so as to avoid lawsuits or something in case their product isn't absolutely 100% effective...but in my mind, I can't help but think "yeah I think I want something that does more that just 'help' get rid of the stuff that can kill my crabs"

My main question is: Is this water conditioner a good one to be using?

On the "Care: Water - Fresh, Salt, & Why to Use a Dechlorinator" page, TopFin Water Conditioner is listed as only removing chlorine/chloramine, heavy metals, and contains a slime coat; even though the bottle says it also removes ammonia.

Does this mean that this particular water conditioner isn't effective enough to meet the HCA standards and make the list, if that makes sense? Or could it just mean that TopFin changed their formula since that list was made?

I just want to make sure I'm not causing my crabbies any harm <3

You post some very good questions. Some of the information on products listed in the Care post you mention may be slightly outdated, since this post was last updated in 2015. I've been collecting data so that HCA can update this Care post, and I've already found one discontinued product and a few reformulated ones. Sounds like the TopFin product you're asking about has been reformulated. From the description, it sounds like the TopFin water conditioner now treats for all the main contaminants (chlorine, chloramine, ammonia, heavy metals) listed in the Water guide, so it should be fine to use, in my opinion.

Now the bit where it says it "helps" rather than actually does something... well, a lot of these products work best and are designed for use at a certain temperature or temperature range (general fish tank conditions for the most part), and the amount of the TopFin product needed to treat your water will depend on how much of each chemical or substance (Chlorine, chloramine, heavy metals, etc) is in your original water. Also, most water conditioners precipitate out the heavy metals, by reacting with them to form a non-toxic compound that can be removed by aquarium filters. So technically, the heavy metals are not removed from the water, but they are made inert, in a sense. That may be why the label states it "helps" rather than "removes". You can contact the manufacturer for more information on usage and request a safety data sheet, if you want to. You can figure out how much of each chemical/substance is in your original water by having it tested (some tests you can do yourself). In the USA, your municipal or city water department should be producing a report to let you know what the yearly average amount is for everything in your water that is not strictly water, so you could look at that. Or you could just treat your water according to the TopFin package instructions. Putting a bit more than the package instructions should be fine too.

When I learned that my All LIving Things water conditioner didn't take care of all 4 things (ammonia, chlorine, chloramine, heavy metals), I threw it out. Most folks on here use Prime by the manufactuer SeaChem. It treats for everything, and has a lot of really helpful and useful info on their website. There are other good products out there that are probably comparable to Prime, I just don't personally know about them yet.

Slime coat is not needed for crabs. There's no evidence that is is harmful, though, that I know of.

Best of luck!

Hermias_mom wrote:You post some very good questions. Some of the information on products listed in the Care post you mention may be slightly outdated, since this post was last updated in 2015. I've been collecting data so that HCA can update this Care post, and I've already found one discontinued product and a few reformulated ones. Sounds like the TopFin product you're asking about has been reformulated. From the description, it sounds like the TopFin water conditioner now treats for all the main contaminants (chlorine, chloramine, ammonia, heavy metals) listed in the Water guide, so it should be fine to use, in my opinion.

Now the bit where it says it "helps" rather than actually does something... well, a lot of these products work best and are designed for use at a certain temperature or temperature range (general fish tank conditions for the most part), and the amount of the TopFin product needed to treat your water will depend on how much of each chemical or substance (Chlorine, chloramine, heavy metals, etc) is in your original water. Also, most water conditioners precipitate out the heavy metals, by reacting with them to form a non-toxic compound that can be removed by aquarium filters. So technically, the heavy metals are not removed from the water, but they are made inert, in a sense. That may be why the label states it "helps" rather than "removes". You can contact the manufacturer for more information on usage and request a safety data sheet, if you want to. You can figure out how much of each chemical/substance is in your original water by having it tested (some tests you can do yourself). In the USA, your municipal or city water department should be producing a report to let you know what the yearly average amount is for everything in your water that is not strictly water, so you could look at that. Or you could just treat your water according to the TopFin package instructions. Putting a bit more than the package instructions should be fine too.

When I learned that my All LIving Things water conditioner didn't take care of all 4 things (ammonia, chlorine, chloramine, heavy metals), I threw it out. Most folks on here use Prime by the manufactuer SeaChem. It treats for everything, and has a lot of really helpful and useful info on their website. There are other good products out there that are probably comparable to Prime, I just don't personally know about them yet.

Slime coat is not needed for crabs. There's no evidence that is is harmful, though, that I know of.

Best of luck!

Thank you so so much!! This is a huge help to me, I appreciate it so much!!

A huge thank you to Hermias_mom for doing all this research.

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This is the stuff I have been using for as long as I have been crabbing. I think this might still be the first bottle I bought in over seven years. 6 drops per gallon is all it takes. At least thats what the instructions say.

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Natejaeg wrote:This is the stuff I have been using for as long as I have been crabbing. I think this might still be the first bottle I bought in over seven years. 6 drops per gallon is all it takes. At least thats what the instructions say.

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7 years?! Wow! It stays good for that long? Mine says it expires in 2019...should I not be worrying about replacing it unless I'm out?

AuntieEm_ wrote:

Natejaeg wrote:This is the stuff I have been using for as long as I have been crabbing. I think this might still be the first bottle I bought in over seven years. 6 drops per gallon is all it takes. At least thats what the instructions say.

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7 years?! Wow! It stays good for that long? Mine says it expires in 2019...should I not be worrying about replacing it unless I'm out?

Expired 3 years ago and I have not had any problems with it. I only use so little of it per year so I dont ever worry about it.

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When ot expires the compounds used will and do break down basically making it inert. Replacing them as per the packaged instructions is wise.

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aussieJJDude wrote:When ot expires the compounds used will and do break down basically making it inert. Replacing them as per the packaged instructions is wise.

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Yeah I was worried about that because I'd had my Prime for so long. I've been using this giant bottle of API that came with an adoption and haven't had any unexplained or molting deaths since.

Because we do take in so many crabs, the PPS probability is high, but none were dead when I moved the tank.


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Natejaeg wrote:

AuntieEm_ wrote:

Natejaeg wrote:This is the stuff I have been using for as long as I have been crabbing. I think this might still be the first bottle I bought in over seven years. 6 drops per gallon is all it takes. At least thats what the instructions say.

Sent from my LGMS428 using Tapatalk

7 years?! Wow! It stays good for that long? Mine says it expires in 2019...should I not be worrying about replacing it unless I'm out?

Expired 3 years ago and I have not had any problems with it. I only use so little of it per year so I dont ever worry about it.

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Natejaeg,

FYI, from the pictures, that dechlorinator doesn't treat for ammonia or heavy metals, so if it is still functional (three years after its expiration date), it is leaving the ammonia and heavy metals in your tap water. If it is not functional, the crabs are basically getting tap water. I know there are products out there that just treat for heavy metals, and I'm pretty sure there are products that just treat for ammonia (still investigating this) - I'd recommend these be used in combo with any product that treats just chlorine and chloramine.

There is a newer formulation of API Tap Water Conditioner than the one you show - the new formulation treats chlorine, chloramine, and heavy metals, but still doesn't treat for ammonia. I'd recommend a product, or combination of products, that addresses all four concerns - chlorine, chloramine, heavy metals and ammonia. Otherwise, you have various levels of ammonia and possibly heavy metals in your water, and the more chloramine your tap water has, the more ammonia is produced and stays in the water you feed your crabs. Depending on the amount of chloramines and heavy metals in your tap water, this could have a significant negative impact on crab health, especially with repeated exposure over time.

I would recommend a new bottle being that it is expired by three years and that it doesn't detoxify ammonia or heavy metals. Think about your hermit crabs gills. It could be irritating them.

Hermias_mom wrote:

Natejaeg wrote:

AuntieEm_ wrote: 7 years?! Wow! It stays good for that long? Mine says it expires in 2019...should I not be worrying about replacing it unless I'm out?

Expired 3 years ago and I have not had any problems with it. I only use so little of it per year so I dont ever worry about it.

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Natejaeg,

FYI, from the pictures, that dechlorinator doesn't treat for ammonia or heavy metals, so if it is still functional (three years after its expiration date), it is leaving the ammonia and heavy metals in your tap water. If it is not functional, the crabs are basically getting tap water. I know there are products out there that just treat for heavy metals, and I'm pretty sure there are products that just treat for ammonia (still investigating this) - I'd recommend these be used in combo with any product that treats just chlorine and chloramine.

There is a newer formulation of API Tap Water Conditioner than the one you show - the new formulation treats chlorine, chloramine, and heavy metals, but still doesn't treat for ammonia. I'd recommend a product, or combination of products, that addresses all four concerns - chlorine, chloramine, heavy metals and ammonia. Otherwise, you have various levels of ammonia and possibly heavy metals in your water, and the more chloramine your tap water has, the more ammonia is produced and stays in the water you feed your crabs. Depending on the amount of chloramines and heavy metals in your tap water, this could have a significant negative impact on crab health, especially with repeated exposure over time.

That's what I thought, but I started second guessing myself when I read Natejaeg's post. I'm so glad we have a community like this to help each other and look out for each other's hermies!!

You can add Toxivec by Sera to your list of good quality dechlorinators. It isn't as concentrated as Prime is, and so ultimately costs more, but does the job.

This is the Seachem page, explaining that a biofilter (ie. bacteria hosted by a filter) is what removes the nitrates etc. that have been bound . In the FAQ it explains that after 48 hours without biological removal the nitrate cycle trio become unbound & re-entre the water.

http://www.seachem.com/prime.php

LadyJinglyJones wrote:You can add Toxivec by Sera to your list of good quality dechlorinators. It isn't as concentrated as Prime is, and so ultimately costs more, but does the job.

This is the Seachem page, explaining that a biofilter (ie. bacteria hosted by a filter) is what removes the nitrates etc. that have been bound . In the FAQ it explains that after 48 hours without biological removal the nitrate cycle trio become unbound & re-entre the water.

http://www.seachem.com/prime.php

Thanks for the info LJJ! I'll add Toxivec to the list of products that I'm collecting data about. And thanks for mentioning the FAQ - I've been on the Seachem page quite a few times, but somehow never thought to read that - lots of useful info on that website.

I personally don't use any water conditioner that has that slime/shine coat additive in it because crabs don't need that, and I'm not sure it's safe for them. I've been using this one for years. I also buy bottled water for my crabs though, and add this as a precaution. I never give them tap water. https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostor ... onditioner