I know that bathing is one of the most debated subjects on the forums so I hope that this post does not open up a pandora's box of arguing.
The only arguments that I hear for or against crab bathing are based on assumptions; "bathing crabs is good because it gets them active which means they are happy" or "crabs are active after bathing because it stresses them." Never do I hear anything based on solid facts.
I can't remember if it was in a care sheet I read when i worked at Petco, or if it was on a website, but I read somewhere that bathing crabs is an important part of maintaing crab health because it substitutes the rainfall that keeps a crab's gills moist in the wild.
I used to bathe my crabs when I got them, then I heard that it was bad and I stopped shortly after starting. They didn't seem to enjoy it at all but they also do not enjoy wadeing through the water either unless it is no higher than their feet. If they are wandering the tat and they come in contact with one of the water dishes, they recoil in what looks like fear or disgust. This is most likely because they are cold blooded and do not like the cooling effect of water regardless of whether it keeps their gills moist.
One thing that should definitely be noted in this debate is that the legendary Carol Of Crabworks has bathed her two PPs for their entire, almost thirty year, lifespans. I don't know of any anti-bathers that have kept their crabs alive for almost thirty years, but that doesn't mean that there aren't any.
I don't know if I should start bathing my crabs again or leave em be. How could we, as members of the HCA, help solve the bathing question as it pertains to crab health?
The great bathing debate
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Willow
Topic author
I'm on the mostly-anti-bathing side. Or, at least, I'm anti-forced-bathing. I provide deep enough water dishes so they can bathe themselves. This is more natural (nobody dunks them in the wild), and less stressful for my crabbies. I hear some crabs seem to enjoy being bathed, but mine certainly do not. I do bathe new crabs to wash the pet store gunk off, but that's it. I do believe bathing is important for hermies, but not being bathed by a human. The difference between bathing a dog and bathing a hermie is that dogs don't usually die of stress.
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Guest
Topic author
A while back there was a posting about the water that is stored in a crabs' shell. All crabs keep water stored in their shells for hydrating themselves, even if you pick up a crab and water doesn't come pouring out, there is still a small amount of water that they are keeping in there. It was proven (through testing where shell water was extracted) that the crabs are capable of regulating the salinity of the water kept in their shells. If they are regulating the salinity in their shells that they use to keep hydrated, then bathing would completely replace and disrupt the salinity of that water kept in their shells. (I'm going to try to find the post/article about that, but if anyone has it on hand please post it.)
I also just have water dishes that are all deep enough for them to submerge completely in, some give themselves baths, some do not. All of the crabs I have right now, I have had for the last 6 (going on 7) years. And I only bathe them if they're new, or there's a special circumstance like mites.
Something to think about when saying that they're "active after a bath", how would you react if you were doing your normal daily thing, and then suddenly you were submerged in water? I would think that most people would run about like crazy trying to figure out what's going on, which would seem like you're being very "active." Just something to think about.
I also just have water dishes that are all deep enough for them to submerge completely in, some give themselves baths, some do not. All of the crabs I have right now, I have had for the last 6 (going on 7) years. And I only bathe them if they're new, or there's a special circumstance like mites.
Something to think about when saying that they're "active after a bath", how would you react if you were doing your normal daily thing, and then suddenly you were submerged in water? I would think that most people would run about like crazy trying to figure out what's going on, which would seem like you're being very "active." Just something to think about.
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NaRnAR
- Founding Member
- Posts: 1387
- Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 11:21 pm
- Location: Lakewood, CO
- Contact:
Im anti-me-bathing-the-crabs (same as Willow). I dont even bathe the new ones, I just keep them ISOed for amonth, that allows them to bathe themselves as well as get adjusted to their new home.
The reason I do not bathe them is that their shell water salinity is maintained at a certain level...a level that only they can regulate. By dunking a crab in plain water (or salt) you will alter their shell water salinity. I think that if crabs are routinely exposed to this, their stress reaction decreases (hence Carols Kate and Johnathan) however, I think its stressful when you dunk crabs who are not accustomed to the changes in salinity. Thus I provide salt and fresh water so they can regulate their own salinity....which probably varies between crabs as well as pre and post molt. Its seemed to work for the last 5 years....
The reason I do not bathe them is that their shell water salinity is maintained at a certain level...a level that only they can regulate. By dunking a crab in plain water (or salt) you will alter their shell water salinity. I think that if crabs are routinely exposed to this, their stress reaction decreases (hence Carols Kate and Johnathan) however, I think its stressful when you dunk crabs who are not accustomed to the changes in salinity. Thus I provide salt and fresh water so they can regulate their own salinity....which probably varies between crabs as well as pre and post molt. Its seemed to work for the last 5 years....
NasTang crabby since 9/02
HappyHermit Foods! at...TheHermitCrabPatch
HappyHermit Foods! at...TheHermitCrabPatch
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MudCrabDude
Topic author
I'm also with Willow on this one, and I also provide pools deep enough for the crabs to go on their own.
I've also noticed that ever since I've provided them salt pools, my hermies do carry "Shell water" (I never noticed that before when I just provided freshwater a decade before).
This also reduced my attempts to handle them compared to my older crabs, as they seem to drip more under stress, even though, on the outside, the legs look dry when they are climbing about the tank - there is shell water in there..........so, not only I've eliminated bathing, but I've greatly reduced handling as well, in my fear of messing up their shell water.
This is also the first time (well, the batch I've had since 6/2007) I've noticed crabs growing after a molt, so I'm assuming I'm doing something right with the non-bathes.
I've also noticed that ever since I've provided them salt pools, my hermies do carry "Shell water" (I never noticed that before when I just provided freshwater a decade before).
This also reduced my attempts to handle them compared to my older crabs, as they seem to drip more under stress, even though, on the outside, the legs look dry when they are climbing about the tank - there is shell water in there..........so, not only I've eliminated bathing, but I've greatly reduced handling as well, in my fear of messing up their shell water.
This is also the first time (well, the batch I've had since 6/2007) I've noticed crabs growing after a molt, so I'm assuming I'm doing something right with the non-bathes.
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Guest
Topic author
Ditto to Willow. 
I provide deep dishes and while I normally wouldn't know if the little ones are bathing regularly or if the water is decreasing due to evaporation, lemme tell you how you KNOW when a Jumbo has decided it's time for a bath.
On top of that, I have seen my guys carefully grip onto the shells I have in the pools, dip their shells in the water and swoosh water in and out. I leave them to do it all at their leisure. 
I provide deep dishes and while I normally wouldn't know if the little ones are bathing regularly or if the water is decreasing due to evaporation, lemme tell you how you KNOW when a Jumbo has decided it's time for a bath.
On top of that, I have seen my guys carefully grip onto the shells I have in the pools, dip their shells in the water and swoosh water in and out. I leave them to do it all at their leisure. -
Guest
Topic author
This is not going to be a great debate thread because this has already been discussed multiple times.
This is probably one of the better ones.
ttp://hermitcrabassociation.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=26719&start=0
Bathing crabs really is not necessary when you provide deep pools of both fresh as well as salt. When you bathe your crabs you are assuming you know better than the crab. When in reality hermit crabs are very precise in how they regulate the specific gravity in their shell water.
Crabs are generally more active after they have just been bathed which is why it has been thought to make them "happy" however, in my opinion an animal thatis abnormally active should be interpreted as stress rather then enjoyment.
So bathing really does not make sense when you consider that crabs know what is better for them than you do, and by bathing them all you are doing is messing with their shell water....
I choose to provide deep pools of both fresh and salt waters for my crabs as an experiment; and I personally think they are quite beneficial for optimum health.
Crabs are not afraid of water in the least. Here is some proof...
Here is a thread were some of us posted some more pictures of our pools
viewtopic.php?t=60416
And a you-tube video....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hj0F4xt ... water2.htm
If you need more examples fill free to ask.
Cheers. ^_<
SP
This is probably one of the better ones.
ttp://hermitcrabassociation.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=26719&start=0
Bathing crabs really is not necessary when you provide deep pools of both fresh as well as salt. When you bathe your crabs you are assuming you know better than the crab. When in reality hermit crabs are very precise in how they regulate the specific gravity in their shell water.
Crabs are generally more active after they have just been bathed which is why it has been thought to make them "happy" however, in my opinion an animal thatis abnormally active should be interpreted as stress rather then enjoyment.
So bathing really does not make sense when you consider that crabs know what is better for them than you do, and by bathing them all you are doing is messing with their shell water....
I choose to provide deep pools of both fresh and salt waters for my crabs as an experiment; and I personally think they are quite beneficial for optimum health.
Crabs are not afraid of water in the least. Here is some proof...
Here is a thread were some of us posted some more pictures of our pools
viewtopic.php?t=60416
And a you-tube video....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hj0F4xt ... water2.htm
If you need more examples fill free to ask.
Cheers. ^_<
SP
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JediMasterThrash
- Jedi Tech Support
- Posts: 1803
- Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 3:05 pm
- Location: Nerima district of Tokyo, Japan
The perfect crabitat is an equatorial beach in the wild.
Once we put crabs into captivity, they are no longer in their perfect habitat. From here, care methods deviate into two camps:
1. Natural.
2. Micromanaged.
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1. Natural
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The goal of the natural crabitat is to provide as close to their true habitat as possible, and let the crabs take care of themselves. This is a mostly hands-off approach. Once the crabitat is setup correctly, it becomes self-sustaining, and little regular maintenance is required.
Since there is no run-off, we still have to remove the excess of feces (which will otherwise increase ammonia levels). Since the water is not fully cycled (unless you have a fully cycled 5g aquarium as your pool), it needs regular cleaning. That and feeding are about all the maintenance required.
Crabs are self-sufficient because they can manage their shell water and bathing on their own (filtered and aerated fresh and salt are available). Crabs have ample substrate to dig and molt in, and aren't overcrowded. Air circulation is provided as well as radiant heat and light to keep the bacteria in check.
One may even attempt cycled substrates to remove the need to deep clean every so often. Otherwise, eventually the lack of run-off and aeration means eventually we need to manually cycle the substrate.
This method can become expensive, especially since it requires a large tank to start out with. But it requires less effort once setup and stable.
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2. Micromanaged
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With this approach, instead of trying to setup long-term semi-cycled substrates and water pools and letting the crabs take care of themselves, you take a pro-active approach. This means weekly checking on your crabs.
Part of the regular check-up is the bath. Not only does it keep the crabs clean and moist, but it's a good opportunity to check for pre-molt signs.
Pre-molt crabs are isolated, and they perform their molt in ISO tanks with specially provided molt shelters.
Sometimes different sizes and species of crabs are separated from one other, using multiple smaller tanks, rather than one big one.
More interaction with your crabs is performed. More handling, more hand-feeding, more play-time, etc.
If done right, you personally maintain your crabs at peak condition. But it requires a lot of daily and weekly effort to be done right. I think some of the most successful crabbers keep their crabs by this method. However, due to the high maintenance and time requirements, it's not often not preferred, or difficult to implement correctly.
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3. Hybrid
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If you don't have the upfront money, time, and space for a natural crabitat, and don't have the regular free-time for a micro-managed crabitat, you're stuck somewhere in the middle.
If you don't do everything required of a micromanged crabitat, it's my opinion that it's not going to work. You have to be on top of your herd every day. This is why I tend to steer newer members away from it.
Since the natural crabitat is easier to care for once setup, I prefer that method, and try to come up with cheap and easy ways to get the basics up and running. But for the things you can't afford or don't have room for yet, you can always substitute parts of the micromanaged method.
For instance, if you can't have big water pools in your tank, you may want to bathe. If you have a small substrate area and some aggressive crabs, you may want to ISO molters. If you have poor circulation and don't spot-clean, you may have to deep-clean more often.
I generally don't recommend them. But some things work for some people better than others. It's up to each individual crabber to find their way.
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Resources
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Ah, I found it. Here's an article on LHC from 2004 where we discussed the differences in the two methods, and whether it's better to promote the more difficult but better or easier but mediocre method to new crabbers.
http://landhermitcrabs.com/eve/forums/a ... #939105751
Here's my guide to making an ISO tank, which also serves as a guide to making a 10g crabitat that is about as close to self-sustaining as you can get. I can't find the HCA copy of the post, so here's the LHC one again:
http://landhermitcrabs.com/eve/forums/a ... 1201086752
Once we put crabs into captivity, they are no longer in their perfect habitat. From here, care methods deviate into two camps:
1. Natural.
2. Micromanaged.
-----------------
1. Natural
-----------------
The goal of the natural crabitat is to provide as close to their true habitat as possible, and let the crabs take care of themselves. This is a mostly hands-off approach. Once the crabitat is setup correctly, it becomes self-sustaining, and little regular maintenance is required.
Since there is no run-off, we still have to remove the excess of feces (which will otherwise increase ammonia levels). Since the water is not fully cycled (unless you have a fully cycled 5g aquarium as your pool), it needs regular cleaning. That and feeding are about all the maintenance required.
Crabs are self-sufficient because they can manage their shell water and bathing on their own (filtered and aerated fresh and salt are available). Crabs have ample substrate to dig and molt in, and aren't overcrowded. Air circulation is provided as well as radiant heat and light to keep the bacteria in check.
One may even attempt cycled substrates to remove the need to deep clean every so often. Otherwise, eventually the lack of run-off and aeration means eventually we need to manually cycle the substrate.
This method can become expensive, especially since it requires a large tank to start out with. But it requires less effort once setup and stable.
--------------------
2. Micromanaged
--------------------
With this approach, instead of trying to setup long-term semi-cycled substrates and water pools and letting the crabs take care of themselves, you take a pro-active approach. This means weekly checking on your crabs.
Part of the regular check-up is the bath. Not only does it keep the crabs clean and moist, but it's a good opportunity to check for pre-molt signs.
Pre-molt crabs are isolated, and they perform their molt in ISO tanks with specially provided molt shelters.
Sometimes different sizes and species of crabs are separated from one other, using multiple smaller tanks, rather than one big one.
More interaction with your crabs is performed. More handling, more hand-feeding, more play-time, etc.
If done right, you personally maintain your crabs at peak condition. But it requires a lot of daily and weekly effort to be done right. I think some of the most successful crabbers keep their crabs by this method. However, due to the high maintenance and time requirements, it's not often not preferred, or difficult to implement correctly.
-----------------
3. Hybrid
-----------------
If you don't have the upfront money, time, and space for a natural crabitat, and don't have the regular free-time for a micro-managed crabitat, you're stuck somewhere in the middle.
If you don't do everything required of a micromanged crabitat, it's my opinion that it's not going to work. You have to be on top of your herd every day. This is why I tend to steer newer members away from it.
Since the natural crabitat is easier to care for once setup, I prefer that method, and try to come up with cheap and easy ways to get the basics up and running. But for the things you can't afford or don't have room for yet, you can always substitute parts of the micromanaged method.
For instance, if you can't have big water pools in your tank, you may want to bathe. If you have a small substrate area and some aggressive crabs, you may want to ISO molters. If you have poor circulation and don't spot-clean, you may have to deep-clean more often.
I generally don't recommend them. But some things work for some people better than others. It's up to each individual crabber to find their way.
---------------
Resources
---------------
Ah, I found it. Here's an article on LHC from 2004 where we discussed the differences in the two methods, and whether it's better to promote the more difficult but better or easier but mediocre method to new crabbers.
http://landhermitcrabs.com/eve/forums/a ... #939105751
Here's my guide to making an ISO tank, which also serves as a guide to making a 10g crabitat that is about as close to self-sustaining as you can get. I can't find the HCA copy of the post, so here's the LHC one again:
http://landhermitcrabs.com/eve/forums/a ... 1201086752
JMT.
Stuck-up, half-witted, scruffy-looking crab-herder since '92.
Stuck-up, half-witted, scruffy-looking crab-herder since '92.
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Guest
Topic author
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Guest
Topic author
See, and that's the thing though. You bathed your cat because of an unusual circumstance, the potty accident. For everyone that says that "oh well you bathe dogs and cats, so why not hermit crabs", would you bathe a dog or cat once a week? No, they have ways of keeping themselves clean, as do hermits. Just like a dog, cat or any other animal, hermit crabs also only need baths under special circumstances, like for mites or if they're new.Cynderella727 wrote: LOL As a matter of fact, I have had the pleasure this very morning!
My rescued kitty TJ is very fluffy, and had a nasty potty accident this morning, so needless to say she needed a bath and some clippers. Well let me tell ya, it was not fun. Not only was it gross, but she threw a fit... scratching, biting, hissing, you name it. Thank goodness we were able to clean the mess, with little damage to TJ or ourselves!
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Guest
Topic author
They are wild animals--set up their environment as closely to their native environment as possible and let them take care of themselves.
I have large (1/2 gallon) filtered salt and fresh pools in their tank. There are rocks and mesh so they can climb in and out as they please. I watch them go to get a drink all the time.
I've seen some climb all the way in before and sit and soak and I figured they were getting ready to molt. When one accidentally falls in, they seem to panic and quickly climb out. If they don't want to go in, I'm not going to force them.
Like Jedi posted before, I rely on the more natural method for my tank. I do regular water changes on both pools just like I would any of my aquariums.
I have large (1/2 gallon) filtered salt and fresh pools in their tank. There are rocks and mesh so they can climb in and out as they please. I watch them go to get a drink all the time.
I've seen some climb all the way in before and sit and soak and I figured they were getting ready to molt. When one accidentally falls in, they seem to panic and quickly climb out. If they don't want to go in, I'm not going to force them.
Like Jedi posted before, I rely on the more natural method for my tank. I do regular water changes on both pools just like I would any of my aquariums.