Food Feedback Request

Allen Repashy · Post by **Allen Repashy** » Wed May 11, 2011 5:14 pm

Hey everyone,

This is my first post here, so I should introduce myself before I begin. My name is Allen Repashy, and have been active and passionate about Reptiles for the last 40 years or so. I have also had a passion for crustaceans and have been keeping and breeding crayfish, shrimp, and crabs for many years. Right now, I am fascinated by the genus of semi terrestrial crabs Geosesarama http://www.forums.repashy.com/freshwate ... crabs.html.

I also for the last 15 years or so, been focused on herp diets and supplements. About ten years ago I formulated a hermit crab diet called Crab Island (not the fruit and flower one) using the natural ingredients that I was incorporating into my reptile diets such as my Crested Gecko Diet. I don't know if any of you are familiar with the product, or if got good reviews, or still is out there.

Anyways, I have been developing a new line of gel formulas which are a dry powder that once mixed with water and microwaved for a minute, will form a nice firm gel that can be fed and has excellent palatability because of its texture and moisture content.

I created a formula to try on the shrimp, crabs, and crayfish I have and also picked up a hermit crab to try it on more than a year ago, and everything has taken to it very well. a moist, non dry or extruded food is very well suited to these creatures.

So I was wondering if anyone here would be interested in doing some feeding trials and give me some feedback if I sent them some samples to try, and some general guidance in what you guys here consider important parts of a diet.

Anyways, I am getting a little long winded here, so I will stop now.

cheers, Allen[/url]

Mike120 · Post by **Mike120** » Wed May 11, 2011 6:11 pm

My general diet that i feed daily is as follows:
Carrot+romaine lettuce (i call it my color booster mix)
Coconut (essential oils for molting)
cuttlebone (builds hard exo, necessary for healthy molts)
Shrimp (protein source)
And recently added dandelion stems

i've been wanting to go out and buy some dried insect and stuff for extra protein. Other things that should be offered are sea vegetables like algae and seaweed. My died has appeared to turn my PP's a deep purple with a silverish gleam to them, and my E's blue-gray with a silverish tone with electric yellow highlighted areas, and blaze orange joints. I recently had a ruggie molt so i will see what color he turns out when he fully heals.

CrabbyIrene · Post by **CrabbyIrene** » Wed May 11, 2011 7:00 pm

I feed chicken, eggs, shrimp,crabmeat,peanut butter,various fruits, various vegs, dried flowers, nuts, freeze dried mealworm, coconut,oats, seaweed,honey,powdered cuttlebone, crushed oyster shells,organic worm castings & mineral mix from hermitcrabpatch.com
There's a bunch of other things but I can't remember right now!

I don't give them all of this everyday, I do mix it up, if i try to repeat the same thing they usually won't bother. Picky little stinkers really like a variety! But I put in at least one source of protein every night, fruits, & vegs, and they always have a dry staple food at all times.

Everything I feed is natural with no preservatives, some is powdered food, some is freeze dried & some is moist.

What does your food contain? Does it cover all of their nutritional needs? Are there any preservatives?

Post by **wodesorel** » Wed May 11, 2011 7:04 pm

Hi! I'm very familiar with your work on gecko diets. Your food considered to be the best option for caring for captive geckos - to the point where no other supplementation is required for the gecko to live out a full life. (I held my first gargoyle gecko three months ago at my favorite pet shop and have been trying to figure out a way to afford one! Been researching them ever since.

)

I think it's great that you're looking into crab diets. I've often worried about the amount of vitamins that my crabs are obtaining as even purchased fruit from a supermarket won't have the same levels as what they would find in nature. My crabs get a steady mixture of frozen fruit (purchased fresh and prepared at home) and freeze-dried proteins like krill, plankton, mealworms, crickets, and freshwater shrimp.

The tricky thing with crab diets is that crabs are biologically driven to not eat the same food two days in a row. I think it would be hard to create a food that would be the only one given, like with your gecko diet. As a natural supplement I'm sure you'd have lots of willing crabbers giving it a try, but trying to convince them that a created food is going to be much better than the natural food we can easily purchase in supermarkets will be hard.

For me, I've based my crab's diets around the information I found from Carol Ormes' (very) old posts that have been documented on the Crab Wiki. She bought her hermit crabs in 1976, and they are still alive with her today. It's a jumbled read as the original posts are long gone to the internet wastelands, but if you'd like to read through what has worked for her, here's the link, the old posts are under the news articles:
http://crabbywiki.com/tiki-index.php?pa ... rks'+Ormes

Would you be willing to post or PM the ingredients of the food for consideration before anyone agrees to be in the trial? I know I'm not the only one who religiously checks labels before giving something new.

Also, could you verify your identity by posting about the hermit crab trial over on the Repashy forums? Can't be too careful these days.

And yes, I would totally love to be part of the trial.

Allen Repashy · Post by **Allen Repashy** » Wed May 11, 2011 7:25 pm

Hi,

Yes, it is definitely me. LOL. You can contact me through the repashy website if you really need to verify it but there really isn't an appropriate place for me to start a conversation about crabs on my gecko site.

Here are the ingredients I have in my formula:

Dried Krill powder
Pea protein
Spirulina Algae
Alfalfa leaf powder
Dandelion powder
Kelp powder
Flax seed meal
Potato powder
Corn powder
whole egg powder
Carrageenan flour
Konjac root
Locust bean gum
Rosehips powder
Calendula Flower powder
Marigold Flower extract
Phaffia rhydozyma yeast
Paprika extract powder
Turmeric powder
Calcium carbonate
Dicalcium phosphate
Magnesium gluconate
salt
canthaxanthin
Rosemary Extract and Mixed Tocopherols (as preservatives)
Calcium propionate and potassium sorbate (as mold inhibitors for the gel)
A balanced vitamin premix that is too long to type and includes beta carotene and choline.
total Protein 30%
Total Fat 8%

I am sure I forgot a few things, but that is the most of it.

I will have a full list complete when I get the label made.

You probably won't recognize a lot of the ingredients. I am very much into the importance of carotenoids and quite a few ingredients are there as natural sources of various carotenoids that enhance color and have nutritional value as precursors to retinol and other qualities. I have a carotenoid specific product called superpig. http://www.store.repashy.com/repashy-su ... ig-en.html that is part of this formula

My preservative is rosemary extract and mixed tocopherols (vitamin E)

Because this is to be made into a gel, mold inhibitors are necessary.
Calcium propionate is a natural substance found in many food items such as cheese, potassium sorbate is found naturally in many berries and is why they don't easily spoil.

That should be enough to get something going.

Allen

Post by **wodesorel** » Thu May 12, 2011 4:32 am

While that mix definitely takes care of the meat side of the diet, I would be concerned about the fruit side. My clypeatus diets consists of about 75% fruit and about 25% protein (their choice as they're offered a bit of everything at all times). I'm not positive, but it doesn't seem like there are any good sources of fructose in there?

Carotenoids are actually a hot topic around here, if just for the cosmetic benefit of better color on the crabs. (Cyclops-eeze is the most recommended source, but it's expensive and hard to find.) That would actually be a great selling point.

I do see two things that throw me off a bit:

Since hermits are so closely related to insects, the general consensus has been that anything that is considered a pesticide or is otherwise known to be harmful to insects is a no-go. Calcium propionate can be used as a pesticide. The argument can be made that it's in small amounts in any commercial food, but the problem is that we're dealing a critter that has the potential to outlive it's owner if cared for properly. Could small amounts of a substance ingested now affect the health of the crab 40 years down the line? No one knows yet.

The other thing is Rosemary. There is a lot of debate on whether or not it's safe. It's been on the Unsafe food lists for years, yet some crabbers have been using it recently and not having any problems. The fear stems from the fact that rosemary oil is a known natural pesticide. Concentrated rosemary oil is not the same as fresh rosemary, but I don't think anyone here knows when the levels turn toxic.

Allen Repashy · Post by **Allen Repashy** » Thu May 12, 2011 8:55 am

Hello,

Calcium propionate is NOT an insecticide. It is a fungicide and thus, people who don't know the difference might call it an insecticide. It could be listed as a pesticide, because mold and fungus are pests.

I also make a fruit fly culture media for science and hobbyists who raise fruit flies. One of the main ingredients in the culture media fro growing flies is Calcium propionate. It can be as much as 10% of the dry formula! Compared to the fraction of a percent used here as insurance against mold.

There is nothing wrong with Rosemary. I don't know who put it on this list you refer to, but I would like to see any evidence they have to back up such a statement. The product used here is an esterified extract, not the plant, or it's oil btw, or that it matters.

Fructose is not required at all, it is simply a source of carbohydrates, which in my formula is provided amply by all of the vegetable ingredients in the formula. Carbohydrates are quickly broken down into sugars in the body and provide the same exact nutritional requirements. Fruit of course have beneficial nutrients such as vitamins, but these are also covered by other ingredients and vitamins in the formula.

I have spend a lot of field time all over the world on islands and continents where crabs live and there is not always a lot of fruit other than what has been put there by man. There IS fruit, but only in certain seasons, and certain places. Some palm species produce a nice fruit, as well as fig species that live in these situations. There can be a lot of fruit in certain areas, and at certain times, and as scavengers, the crabs will definitely eat it when they can find it. The main thing you find is coconut, which is not a fruit, but a nut that all but the infamous Birgus latro can't get into.

I use the most natural source of sugars in my gecko diet. Dry, raw honey, and could easily incorporate it into the formula here. I also use banana powder fig powder, date powder, and pure fructose in other formulas But I feel it has no place in this formula. I can put some of these in the formula if it makes people feel better, but there isn't really a nutritional reason to do so

. I realize a lot of people just read labels and look for things they think are important, or other people have told them are important, even though there is no educated reason behind it LOL

Cheers, Allen

Mrs. G · Post by **Mrs. G** » Thu May 12, 2011 3:04 pm

I would love to be part of your food trial!!!! I love trying new things for my crabbies..... My crabs tend to be very pick eaters.... so I am willing to give it a whirl..... Let me know, just PM me when you need my address.... TY

Mrs. G

reichiere · Post by **reichiere** » Thu May 12, 2011 11:43 pm

Hi~

I actually just posted about your gecko food! I have a couple of crested geckos and so I have some of your food laying around the house. I got curious if my new hermit crabs would like the crested gecko diet as their diets seem pretty similar. The first night I put it in mixed up with water they didn't give it much interest. But last night I put it in the powdered form and it's just about gone!

But back to hermit crabs, I've only had my guys about a week so I don't have a lot of experience to share but I've currently been sticking the variety is the spice of life approach. I usually feed them a protein source, a fruit source, and something else.

And for the concern I've seen about rosemary I did some searching on it after some pointed out that CGD has rosemary in it. I found several sources both for and against it with google search. My personal conclusion was that because rosemary is the pine family it was automatically assumed to be bad like other pine products, however there is no signs that rosemary is bad for hermit crabs (except for the fact in very high amounts Rosemary oil is a low powered insecticide).

Either way I would love to be a tester for your food! My geckos are healthy because of you so I'm sure you can help me keep my hermies that way too!

blackorchid77 · Post by **blackorchid77** » Sat May 14, 2011 6:36 pm

I would like a free sample!

Mama Crabs · Post by **Mama Crabs** » Sat May 14, 2011 8:21 pm

I would be interested!

Kiihay · Post by **Kiihay** » Sun May 15, 2011 12:32 am

I think I definitely would be interested in trying it out as well

Allen Repashy · Post by **Allen Repashy** » Fri May 20, 2011 3:16 pm

Hello,

Sorry about the lack of response, for some reason, I am not getting the reply notifications even though my account settings are correct.

I am waiting on a few more ingredients to test. I have some whole squid meal and whole herring meal on the way that I want to test for palatibility.

Once I have some samples ready, I will be back on here to follow up.

Cheers, Allen

zabbie · Post by **zabbie** » Fri May 20, 2011 8:03 pm

I'm very curious if the hermits will eat this day after day, or if they would still need a rotation of food. I know my little crab wouldn't eat the same thing twice in a row.