soil supplement for crabs

[Guest]

Yup! The antenna did it!

[Willow]

can you tell me where you see it that you can mix into the substrate as I just went thru her site and I dont see it addressed that way--just as a eating supplement---Thanks

It's in the "substrate" section....she mixes it in with her pre-packaged mixed substrate. I'd like to see some science backing up your statement that "it won't break down into good bacteria", not that I don't believe you but it was my understanding that good bacteria is what makes EE "break down" the poop, so I just figured that the worm castings would help it along.

[Guest]

Willow, Willow, Willow... what am I to do with you girl (hehehe).... plants benefit from CF breakdown...crabs do not! That is exactly why we do not use "organic soils" ...

the same said "good" bacteria "Cytophaga"... causes the breakdown of the cellulose and minerals (including chitin and Calcium) in both the coconut fiber and in the crab's exo skeleton, causing topical infection that results in an ulcerated sore that can invite other bacteria!

The reason we use Coconut fiber is due to its neutral to slightly acidic properties (6- 7 pH); the fact that it attracts oxygen (even when wet), thus creating a natural circulation that minimizes potential for really bad bacteria (the kind that requires little light and oxygen); and because structurally it has a high resistance to cellulose breakdown from fecal matter produced by our pets...the more organic matter you ad to CF, the more you compromise it's integrity and increase its breakdown!

Worm castings with CF is more for plant application, not for "contained" pet substrate... Worm castings however are an excellent FOOD! Just not for substrate

Reference for material I used to reply comes from Vermicompost, Wikipedia, and Dorland's Medical Dictionary... and me! LOL


oops *blush* ...meant to add hyper link too :

7. Cytophaga

[HERMEZ]

Thank you Sue!

[Guest]

This has been a great thread, guys! Thanks to Willow for playing devil's advocate (I like your reasoning on good bacteria*) or we would never have gotten such thorough explanations from everyone else.

*Having lost a crab to a bacterial infection, I have given a lot of thought to bacteria--good vs. bad. I have wondered about a pro-biotic for the crabitat. But it looks like for now I will just keep dampening the substrate w/ saltwater to keep down the risk as much as I can. It was interesting about the coconut fiber drawing oxygen too! I've been afraid to use it because I imagine that it will be a source of food for bacteria and mold which have been on-going problems in my playsand tat. I thought playsand would be the cleanest, being stone, and impervious to molds and bacteria. Apparently, I have a lot to learn.

[Guest]

Coconut fiber also breaks down slower (rate of 75:1) than other plant materials...it is classed as a "fruit" fiber... that is why you will find food molding in FB but the FB is not molding... also, when wet and exposed to heat, CF will not decompose as quickly as it leaches out a natural anti-bacterial enzyme from the strand of fiber which usually limits the build up of other more noxious bacterial strains involved in decomposition. Again the more "organics" in ratio to CF you have, the more you compromise these natural properties.

I prefer a 2:1 ratio of CF and sand as substrate...especially since we have varied depths of substrates, CF does compact in hot/humid conditions...the sand prevents deep compaction and allows the oxigenating properties of CF to work longer!

[Guest]

Jedi Sena, and Herm-ez like you I have had concerns about harmful bacteria also. This subject is of great inertest to me too. I'm really trying to understand the good/bad bacteria balence also. I've been doing a lot of research on it.

I'm like you Herm-ez, I consume info, get the general idea of it in my head and whether or not it appears logical in my mind, form an opinion on it, and promptly forget most of the details. I could probably tell you almost verbatum what some material said for about 24 hours and then forget it.

It's a lot more complicated than clean tat = healthy crabs.

Thanks all.

[Willow]

Thanks to Willow for playing devil's advocate

Hehe. I do like to play devil's advocate, or maybe I just like to argue. But, seriously, I really want to understand this. I have done a lot of research into proper cycling and bacterial balance of aquariums, and I see no reason this shouldn't apply to terrariums, too. I know that if I keep my fish tank too clean, or I don't take care of the good bacteria, my fish will get sick.

I am very casual about the cleanliness of my crabitat (I let the 75g go for over a year without a deep clean, and I let the 55g go for 9 months, and the only reason I did it then was because I wanted to put the crabs back into the 75g), and I have never lost a crab to a bacterial problem. In fact, I haven't lost a crab at all since I switched to all-natural foods and put in a UVB light.

I've also noticed that a new substrate is much more susceptible to mold (not actually in the EE, but on food or wood items), but after a few weeks, there's no mold at all. I have always attributed this to a form of cycling. There are always bacteria all around us, and IN us (we couldn't digest our food properly without a bunch of beneficial gut bacteria), and the only time the bad bacteria will make us sick is when the good bacteria aren't working right. I rather assumed this was the same for crabs.

I always want to do what is right for the crabbies, if I'm going to keep a wild animal (or any animal) in captivity, I want to do it right.

[Guest]

Well, at least you have animal-references for your interest in the subject. My interest stems from body piercing and an interest in my own health. Let me explain:
If you pierce your ears at the mall they tell you to use peroxide until it heals. As a kid, this proved to be a horrible ordeal which included a series of infections. A tatoo parlor will never recommend peroxide. My mom was told to use sea salt. I used Bragg's apple cider vinegar (good stuff) and healed in half the time. The thing is that you can't keep something that is next to your hair sterile enough to keep it from infecting your hair w/ bacteria, plus you need to touch the stud periodically and your hands are loaded w/ bacteria too, so you have to constantly sterilize or find a way to over-grow the good bacteria.
Also, the civilized world is over-prescribed antibiotics which kill all bacteria which always leads to candita (condition of bacterial imbalance). Many people have stomach problems that follow a course of antibiotics and it is because all of the beneficial bacteria has been killed off along w/ the bad and the bad tends to grow faster. You should always invest in a good pro-biotic supplement after any course of antibiotics. And eat yogurt w/ live cultures.

[Willow]

Yeah, I did a lot of human-health research into probiotics, too. I read somewhere that, even with probiotics, it can take your body up to a year to recover from a course of antibiotics! I have only had antibiotics once in my life (my mom knew enough not to give us antibiotics for ear infections), that was to prevent infection after I had my wisdom teeth out. I haven't had any ill effects from it, and I did take probiotics, but I wonder what kind of damage I did to my poor body. I have also observed that it takes a fish tank a LONG time to recover from an antibiotic treatment. So this is why I'm so interested in the subject of good/bad bacterial balances for the crabitat.

[Guest]

I prefer a 2:1 ratio of CF and sand as substrate..

Do you mix your substrates together or is 2/3 of the tank CF and the other 1/3 playsand?

[Guest]

Actually that is the mixing ratio I use for the forest bedding (CF), so it is mixed together ... I usually have 3/4 of the tank covered in the FB mix... the remaining quarter I use either Desert sand (very fine and a reddish tinge), or lately I have been using crushed coral or argonite sand in the remaining 1/4...