Substrate Not Holding Together?

[FeelingCrabby]

I recently bought some Zoo Med Eco Earth Loose Coconut Fiber Substrate (not the bricks) (link can be found here: https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Coconut- ... B00167VVP4 ) and put it in my tank 30 minutes ago. It was still moist in the bag and when I poured it in the tank it didn't seem wet enough so I misted it and thought it'd be fine. But when I watched one of my crabs try to create a tunnel, the dirt just fell in on top of him??? He was only about an inch deep, but after a minute of him not moving I was afraid he might be crushed (he's one of my smaller crabs) so I made a little opening in the dirt next to him and he crawled out.

Is this considered "normal" for crabitats? I haven't seen too many crab tanks except for those in pet stores and certainly never touched them. Whenever I touch it my hand doesn't come away wet, but a few grains of the stuff does stick to my hand. I know this seems bad but I'm fighting a mite infestation in my tank and when somebody was cleaning off the temperature and humidity gauges they just "fell apart". (They weren't that expensive, but I'm pretty sure I paid enough for them to not "fall apart" the moment water touches them. It shall forever remain a mystery...) But anyway, I'm stuck without a humidity checker and an older temperature gauge until the store opens.

The temperature usually stays around 75-83 depending, but the humidity can stray, and I just put them into a new 29 galleon tank so I'm kinda at a lost.

What do I do? Everybody keeps saying they're crabs, if they don't think it's safe to tunnel then they won't, but a part of me is still worried.I'm going to continue misting every now and then, but how wet is substrate supposed to be?

[SheogorathsQueen]

Hi there. So it sounds like you're using just coconut fiber as your substrate. Here on the HCA, we recommend doing a 5:1 ration of sand to coconut fiber. As you've figured out, coconut fiber is at all ideal for digging crabs because it just caves in. Home Depot sells large bags of sand (I believe the brand is Quikrete) and the ideal consistency is "sand castle consistency". So moist enough to point where if you put a finger in the sand, it holds its shape when removed. But not wet enough so that it is "soupy".

That being said, I suggest getting some sand as soon as you're able, and mixing that in with the coconut fiber to create the proper "sand castle consistency". That should solve your substrate issue!


One last note, make sure you are using dechlorinated water to moisten your substrate. And this link here http://www.hermitcrabassociation.com/ph ... 26&t=92542 will take you to the 'Substrate and Moss' thread here on the HCA.

[FeelingCrabby]

Yes, I heard that! It took awhile to find some play sand (most of the stores had this weird Crayola colored play sand, which I was afraid to use) but I finally found some and planned on using it tonight, but apparently nobody took it out of the truck and it's now at my brother's house. I... honestly don't know how that happened. So, yeah, he's bringing it by soon.

But the coco fiber as it is won't kill them if they get stuck? I'd rather not be up all night Crab-watching...

Also: would it be okay to mix in the sand while it's in the tank? I wouldn't disturb where the crabs are laying, but I'd rather keep them inside the tank while I do it. One of the crabs almost escaped by climbing on top of the others and out of the bowl, and made it halfway across the coffee table before anyone caught him...

[SheogorathsQueen]

Are you planning on adding the sand soon? As in like tomorrow morning? If so, if it were me, I would take a substantial amount of your current coconut fiber substrate out of your tank, as long as you don't have anyone down molting, and leave your crabs with just around 2-3 inches of substrate. I can't say for sure if a collapsed tunnel of coconut fiber would kill them, but it it were me, I'd be paranoid. That being said, I would leave them with just a few inches of coconut fiber tonight so that there is no paranoia of any collapsed tunnels. Then first tomorrow or as soon as possible, mix your sand and coconut fiber. I don't imagine one night of low substrate will cause any harm, given that no one is currently molting.

As far as leaving the crabs in the tank while adding substrate, from my experience it is much easier to remove them while redoing the tank. I understand that they are masterminds when it comes to running away. If you don't have a separate temp and humidity monitored place to keep them for a little, I'd suggest moving them to one side of the tank, adding the substrate to the side they are not on, and then doing the same to the other side. Just try to keep them out of the way. It is much easier to mix sand in a 5 gallon bucket to get the proper consistency, but it can be done in the tank. Just be careful to keep your crabs out of the way and safe.

[GotButterflies]

First of all, plenty of crabbers do use just ee. You would have to moisten it more than just out of the bag. As far as mixing substrate with the crabs in the tank, I personally wouldn't. They are fast, and it could be easy to accidentally bury one.


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[Giner13]

Play sand is very good price wise & it's what I've mixed in with my eco earth.
You could probably mix small amounts at a time outside the tank...


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[Visual]

Alright, side question but totally related..... how often do you all need to re moisten your sub? I seem to have issues with the top most layer getting dried out. If humidity is perfect will this stop being an issue? I am building that larger enclosure and I am adding in more water features to help with humidity but I'm still new at this and I hate to disturb the crabs to re moisten the sub.


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[Giner13]

Alright, side question but totally related..... how often do you all need to re moisten your sub? I seem to have issues with the top most layer getting dried out. If humidity is perfect will this stop being an issue? I am building that larger enclosure and I am adding in more water features to help with humidity but I'm still new at this and I hate to disturb the crabs to re moisten the sub.


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I've wondered the same!


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[SheogorathsQueen]

First of all, plenty of crabbers do use just ee. You would have to moisten it more than just out of the bag. As far as mixing substrate with the crabs in the tank, I personally wouldn't. They are fast, and it could be easy to accidentally bury one.

Didn't mean for it to sound like using just EE is a bad idea! I just personally like how the sand keeps everything moist for longer, at least for my tat!

[Dragonfreak]

I use only ee. I add there sw. To make sand castle consistent

love my babies..human ones too!!

[123AE]

First of all, plenty of crabbers do use just ee. You would have to moisten it more than just out of the bag. As far as mixing substrate with the crabs in the tank, I personally wouldn't. They are fast, and it could be easy to accidentally bury one.


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Totally agree with you there I have successfully kept my indos Es PPs and a weird white coloured kind of crab that wasn't an E on pure coco fibre


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[aussieJJDude]

Ee is fine to use on its own. Even though we recommend the ratio, it certainly isn't strictly enforced as many crabbers have had success using their own mixes. Just use what works for you.

Often, if your humidity isn't up to par you may experience the first couple of inches to dry out. To template adding a few sprays from a spraying bottle will help increase the moisture content in the sub. It's important not to overdo it (which is why I tend to leave it alone) as it can cause problems such as flooding....

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[GotButterflies]

Alright, side question but totally related..... how often do you all need to re moisten your sub? I seem to have issues with the top most layer getting dried out. If humidity is perfect will this stop being an issue? I am building that larger enclosure and I am adding in more water features to help with humidity but I'm still new at this and I hate to disturb the crabs to re moisten the sub.


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I never remoisten my substrate....


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[aussieJJDude]

I never remoisten my substrate....


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It's unusual but for some it's needed as it can dry out



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[GotButterflies]

I never remoisten my substrate....


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It's unusual but for some it's needed as it can dry out



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I live in Florida (in the USA), and we have high humidity to begin with. In addition to that, I have glass tops, a moss pit and air stones in my pools for both crabitats. My humidity stays at 99%.


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