Something weird is going on in my friend's tank......

Post by **JediMasterThrash** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 2:11 pm

I was actually thinking the opposite. Sometimes I think people assume that bottled water is safe, and don't perform any conditioning on it. At least when we use tap water, we know to use a conditioner that removes heavy metal ions.

Spring water doesn't come from ocean or brackish stream water (natural crab sources), it comes from springs, which are either from underground, or mountains. The water is probably full of minerals.

If it's RO or distilled, then the reverse could happen - the water could potentially leach necessary minerals out of the crabs system (unproven, but theorized by some).

And a lot of bottled water is really just bottled tap water, so you have to watch out there. That's why I say it's not safe to assume it's safe.

The frozen seafood cubes Kathy mentioned caught my eye too.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 3:17 pm

In answer to some of the questions, Dianna performed a deep clean a few weeks ago. Prior to that, it had been about 4 months since her last one.

I feed the seafood cubes, too, and have for almost two years. Even the food experts seem to be fine, as the only thing added to the fresh seafood used are spirulina & such, and the frozen krill & brine shrimp, contain ONLY the krill & shrimp. Nothing else harmfully in them. They are the same thing as buying the bulk bag of frozen stuff, but this is the convenience of pop-out cubes.

She uses dechlor....same one for over a year. Salt used is API, which is what I also used until recently. Substrate is playsand on one 1/2, and a mix of EE & calci-sand on the other. Again, what I use.

Since so many of them were buried & in various states of decomposition, I don't think she was able to determine if all those deaths were molt related or not.

The tank is not the same one she has had for 2 years. She got this 90G back in February. It was used, and had been a salt water aquarium before becoming her hermie tank.

The strangest part of this whole thing, is that basically, HER tank & MY tanks are set up the same. Same substrates (and brands), same foods, same water dechlor & salt. Same tank conditions, ( and 70-85 temp/humidity is fine & within range, by the way.) SAME EVERYTHING! The only differences are the crabs themselves. In face, I pretty much put HER tank together for her when she got it!

Is this weird or what????

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 3:39 pm

It's not really weird at all, because you seem to have eliminated anything to do with what's inside the tank. Although the possibility remains that there could be something in the substrate.

Now it seems even more likely that it's on the outside, some kind of environmental influence, even one that may not be straightforward, like spraying for pests.

Is the crabitat in a location where it could be contaminated by some outside pollutant?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:48 pm

yep I wondered about a contamination from pesticides of some kind too.

Another concern is the play sand. I've used play sand in my sand boxes for years, sometimes we would get a bag that was so nasty. Once it got wet it would smell and clearly had some kind of bacteria growing in it.

Other bags, same company same packaging, everything were fine.

You couldn't tell until the bacteria was bad.

And it happened in my crab tank too... I stopped using the play sand then. But I tend to just about throw baby out with the bath water. Not really...but anything that I have had a problem with somewhere before, and it shows up as a possibility in my animal's homes..it's a goner.

The tank could have been harboring something too. The tank I lost all of my crabs in was new. (I got rid of that as well.

) It took us some time to realize it was the pesticides. So I thought the used tank had a residue I couldn't get rid of.

I'm leaning towards this being something residing in the substrate. I don't know exactly why, but it feels like there is something more toxic there than it being food related... unless the food was laced somehow, without anyone knowing.

It's not an overcrowded tank is it? Too much waste etc building up in the substrate? I wouldn't think so...

Basically I'm just throwing out guesses with my experiences mingled in. Unfortunately there is no way for any of us to help you without testing the substrates, foods, waters, or checking for diseases in the crabs. I wish there was!

I'm so, SO sorry!

hermiefanatic · Post by **hermiefanatic** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:14 pm

could ur friend iso eachcrab in a gladware container and boil everythong clean everything extrmely well and keep the crabs seperated for a little bit? it may b because a bacterial infrction. also maybe if she was treting the tank with a mold product it may have wiped out all the good bacteria.

Willow · Post by **Willow** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:04 pm

How often does she change the water/wash the water bowls? Does she ever disinfect the dishes? I've noticed my hermies seem healthier since I started changing the water twice a week instead of once a week, and sanitizing the water dishes with bleach water (rinsed well, of course) in between uses. I think bad bacteria had colonized the plastic in the dishes (Exo-Terra brand).

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:39 am

I wonder if maybe the declorinator, salt mix, or the storebought food items might have been from a bad batch? Maybe something got in them in the factory, or in the warehouse or petstore they were exposed to something. I thought of that from the horrible dog and cat food incidents from earlier this year. I don't suppose you could check for something like that, but I would consider tossing all of the current stuff and buying new, trying to be sure the new stuff is from a different lot.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:52 pm

Hmmmm....now i think that a few of you are onto something.

Willow, I am not sure how often she changes her water, but will tell her to up it, though, and about the bleach water. Even if that is not the cause, it sure wouldn't hurt them!

SteffiKat3000 ~ That also makes perfect sense. A bad bottle of dechlor or box of salt, could have been contaminated somehow. Gosh knows, all of our cats & dogs were in jeopardy from that pet food scare a few months back. If someone gets a bad bottle of dechlor, and loses a few fish, would they really report it to the vet or pet stores? Chances are....they would not.

Melin ~ the playsand looks & smells clean, so I doubt that it is the cause. However, I imagine there is always a risk of pesticides. Maybe the sand was stored near the pesticides or something. That is another thought.

I am going to pass on everyone's words of wisdom to Dianna. Hopefully, with some changes, she can stop this mass death thing.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:26 pm

I feel for her! How aweful! The only thing I wanted to add is that with my bacteria related mass deaths, many, many of my losses did NOT have the black spots, they just up and died.

Also it was 4 months between when I first found the bacteria infected crab and when the next crab showed the black spots, so it's possible a crab she added 4 months ago or more could still be a carrier of something bad.

starmaiden · Post by **starmaiden** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:05 pm

I just wanted to add that I'm sorry for your friend and all her losses. I'm having a lot of mysterious losses this summer myself and I'm thinking perhaps it was something viral brought in with the new crabs I bought back in April despite ISOing them for a month. You bring up a good point about the shrimp though. Although i cook the stuff used for human consumption, I don't cook the fish food. Perhaps it was tainted fish food?

The crabs just slow down and then I find them dead in their favorite sleeping spot. Or they have a terminal molt.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:36 pm

I have to admit, that I once had a horrible deep clean.....12 dead. If I remember correctly, 5 of them were new straws, trying to molt with me for the first time. So, that could be attributed to PPS. But 7 others? I was frantic, but the deaths stopped with that deep clean....I, too, wondered if something had been in the substrate. Since her deep clean two weeks ago, two of her 3 straws have gone naked & died. So, it doesn't appear to be ending.

I passed on all of your advice to her, so she is going to be buying new salt & dechlor, and discarding the old. She is also going to bleach the water bowls. Hopefully, this nightmare will end for her soon.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:15 pm

Has everything stabilized or is it still happening?

I've been reading this post..but too new to have an opinion one way or the other on what the problem could be.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:14 pm

*kathy*

What happened with your friends tank?