UTH on the Side of Tank vs. On the Bottom?

[CrabbyMommy2017]

Good Morning Board Members,

I am new to crabbing and wondering how important the position and placement of the under tank heater is. When the crabs came to me from the previous owner a few weeks ago, they came in a 10 gallon tank with the under tank heater stuck to the bottom. The previous owner also had an additional under tank heater not in use. This was their only heat source before. When I got the crabs I moved them into our old 55-gallon tank. I placed both under tank heaters side by side on the bottom of the 55 gallon when I set it up.

I am now reading a lot about under tank heaters being better placed on the side wall of the tank above the substrate level. When I set the tank up the only heat source I had were these two under tank heaters and they did not sufficiently raise the temperature to where it needed to be. I set up a space heater on the countertop beside the tank pointed at the same end of the tank where the under tank heaters are. This is just a temporary solution to raising the temperature as I wait for the new infrared bulb and fixture that i ordered online to come in the mail.

With some adjustment to the thermostat, the space heater has brought the temperature to the normal range that it needs to be at for now. I'm wondering about other people's opinions on having the under tank heater placed on the side wall above the substrate, versus on the bottom of the tank. I am assuming that as long as I can get the temperature to the right level it doesn't really matter.

Once my infrared heat bulb and fixture comes in the mail and I am able to set that up, if I am not able to reach the right temperature and I'm forced to move the under tank heaters to the side wall of the tank, (above the substrate level), my question is this: is it safe to use the backdrop that I have taped to the back of the tank? The back drop im talking about here is just a scene, the full size of the back of the tank. I purchased at a petstore and taped it to the tank when we had goldfish in it.

If so, would I place the under tank heaters between the backdrop and the glass, or on top of the backdrop so that they would not be visible through the glass, if that makes sense.

Unrelated to the topic title, but still in the realm of heating, I have another question. For the top of our tank my husband cut panels of plexiglass. Four panels in all, two on each side which cover the entire top of the 55 gallon tank.

I am assuming that the new infrared heat bulb and fixture placed directly on top of the tank will probably melt the plexiglass panels. My husband is a welder/metal fabricator and has made a metal panel for me with a screen circle in the middle of it, about a quarter inch larger than the fixture all the way around. (Expecting bulb and fixture in the mail any day now, i have not actually set this up yet).

I am new to this board and not entirely sure how to post a picture of the metal panel described above, which my husband has fabricated for me. The metal that he used is food grade and he says it will not rust. I'm wondering if using this metal panel will cause any harm to the crabs or their environment? The other three plexiglass panels will remain with only one section being this new metal panel with the screen circle in it. I am assuming it wont matter since the crabs will not be coming into contact with the actual metal panel that the light will sit on. I hope that that makes sense and doesn't sound like a dumb question.

Thank you in advance for your advice.

Take Care,
CrabbyMommy2017

[Hermie225]

Morning! I don't have a lot of time, but thought I'd link you to the heating and lighting file Crabitat: Lights - Heating, Viewing, and UVB

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_ ... are_type=t

It's important that the UTH is across the entire back of the tank above substrate level. This is because we are trying to heat the air, not the sub. After 6+ inches of substrate any UTH on the bottom would not heat the tank. As far as using UTH with a background i believe it is safe if your are using an Ultratherm brand UTH which crabbers prefer over zoo-med or any other. It has no adhesive you apply it with tape. Ultratherms can be purchased online at reptilebasics.com or beanfarm.com Hope that helps a little!

[CrabbyMommy2017]

Thank you Hermie225,

This means a big overhaul for me, but necessary i guess. It will have to wait for the weekend because that means emptying the tank completely. But there are several decor changes ive been wanting to make that would require that anyways.

I will get to know the sections better as time goes on and try my best to post in the appropriate places. Still new, but i will figure it out soon. Lol.

Thank you for your response. Hope you have a great day

Take Care,
CrabbyMommy2017

[KayedeeLove<3]

I'd suggest the over haul as the heater being on the bottom side can harm your babies.

Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk

[soilentgringa]

I'd suggest the over haul as the heater being on the bottom side can harm your babies.

Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk

It's also a fire hazard. Can't be here long, will expand on this later.

Sent from my LGMS550 using Tapatalk

[CrabbyMommy2017]

When we set up the 55 gallon with the 2 uth's underneath we actually put spacers all the way around the tank. They are about three quarters of an inch tall and there's one on each corner, as well as in the middle on the front and the back, to keep the uth cords from getting smushed.

I've learned a lot about placing the decor in the tank. Me and my husband made a platform with a little bridge ramp on it for the crabs to hide under and climb up on. Then we also filled the tank with large sticks and branches as well as a very large piece of cork bark that I had ordered off the internet a while back for another project. Before placing all of the wood in there I made sure and treated it the way that I read about (and saw videos from on YouTube about how to do it).

The decor looks really cool but it's kind of gotten in the way when it comes to maintaining the food and water bowls. For refilling the water I kind of have to stick my arm down in there and underneath things.

I'm going to have to wait until the two crabs who have buried them self come up I guess before I can do the overhaul. I've got some new ideas about where to place all the tank decor as well as the water and food bowls to make them more accessible. When I had set the tank up that way I had the crabs in mind knowing that they would want to have plenty of places to hide. Next time I'm going to keep myself in mind a little bit too to make it easier to do tank maintenance.

[soilentgringa]

The reasons you never put UTH's under a crab tank are:

1. The substrate is not supposed to be heated. The air in the tank is.

2. UTH heaters are not designed to heat through several inches of sand. Since it is an insulator, this can create hot spots that can burn your crabs.

In the wild, crabs bury in the earth/sand to cool off since they cannot thermoregulate.

When UTH's are put under the sub, this is the reverse of what would naturally occur.



Sent from my LGMS550 using Tapatalk

[Hermias_mom]

Here's a quick solution without damaging your buried crabs - just unplug the UTH that is mounted on the bottom of your tank. Keep your house warmer for a few days. PPs can go down to 75F, even though they don't like it - it's not recommended long term. Hot towels from the drier (NOT over any UTH except the Ultratherm ones - it's a fire risk) draped over the tank, or maybe water bottles touching it - it seems to help a few degrees. Some folks have used a heating pad in a pinch, though you'd have to monitor that pretty closely I would think.

Then order an Ultratherm, and mount that to the side. You can mount them on any side of the tank, recommend the largest surface area possible (usually back) without touching substrate.

Also, with the UTH on the side, if it over laps your sub a bit, you can make a little trench next to the heater to pull the sand away from the heated glass but be careful about the buried crabs. Bear in mind you may need to insulate the UTH. Styrofoam wrapped in aluminum foil and/or Reflectix, if you search these terms there's some great posts on this forum for how.

Also, if you're worried about over-heating, once you get the UTH mounted on the side, you can use a Thermostat for round the clock temp control. Zilla makes a good one, that they sell in some petstores.

I only had a minute, hope this helps. Good luck!

[Hermias_mom]

So I got to read your post more carefully, and had a few thoughts for you. First off, I am a newbie, had my crabs a few months. The folks on this forum have really been helping me out and have given some really good advice. There are some great posts and I like the search function for finding information. Folks who've been at this longer may be able to correct/clarify, but here's a few thoughts for you, mainly pulled from forum advice and my own experience. Note: I have a 10 gallon with a 5:1 playsand/coco fiber substrate moistened to sandcastle consistency with marine saltwater and 3 small/med PPs. I'm in the process of setting up a 29 gallon. My comments are marked with HM.

Good Morning Board Members,

I am new to crabbing and wondering how important the position and placement of the under tank heater is. When the crabs came to me from the previous owner a few weeks ago, they came in a 10 gallon tank with the under tank heater stuck to the bottom. The previous owner also had an additional under tank heater not in use. This was their only heat source before. When I got the crabs I moved them into our old 55-gallon tank. I placed both under tank heaters side by side on the bottom of the 55 gallon when I set it up.

I am now reading a lot about under tank heaters being better placed on the side wall of the tank above the substrate level. When I set the tank up the only heat source I had were these two under tank heaters and they did not sufficiently raise the temperature to where it needed to be. I set up a space heater on the countertop beside the tank pointed at the same end of the tank where the under tank heaters are. This is just a temporary solution to raising the temperature as I wait for the new infrared bulb and fixture that i ordered online to come in the mail.

With some adjustment to the thermostat, the space heater has brought the temperature to the normal range that it needs to be at for now. I'm wondering about other people's opinions on having the under tank heater placed on the side wall above the substrate, versus on the bottom of the tank. I am assuming that as long as I can get the temperature to the right level it doesn't really matter.

HM: So, the under tank location of UTHs (under tank heaters) has already been addressed earlier in this post. However, you mention using a space heater outside the tank - clever idea! I never thought of that. If I did that I'd have to be really sure to seal up the tank well with some press n seal so that the humidity doesn't escape. And I'd make sure to measure the temp of the glass right where the space heater hits it - 87F is probably the max I would go with it. My UTH across the back of my entire tank above my 6" substrate gets the glass to around 87F, and that heats my air to a range of 80-87F, with substrate to 80F. 80F is the optimal temperature for PPs. With a space heater you'll be exposing both glass that is not touching the sub, and the glass that is touching the sub - Glass expands different amounts at different temperatures - if there is too much of a temperature difference from one location to the other (sub vs no sub), it may crack your glass (which is the other issue with having UTHs on glass that touches the sub). For a short term use without a big temperature change, you may be fine, or you might consider putting some styrofoam over the bits of your tank glass that touch the sub, so that only glass which is not touching substrate is directly exposed to the space heater. In all cases, be aware of temps and don't let anything get too hot. Wrapping styrofoam in aluminum foil should help dissipate heat if you're worried about the styrofoam getting too hot. Fire is bad.

Once my infrared heat bulb and fixture comes in the mail and I am able to set that up, if I am not able to reach the right temperature and I'm forced to move the under tank heaters to the side wall of the tank, (above the substrate level), my question is this: is it safe to use the backdrop that I have taped to the back of the tank? The back drop im talking about here is just a scene, the full size of the back of the tank. I purchased at a petstore and taped it to the tank when we had goldfish in it.

HM: General guidelines here (I think) are to have nothing between the UTH and the glass, and nothing between the glass and crabs (maybe some netting or plants, but nothing touching the glass directly over a large area). Wouldn't want it to become superheated and melt, or interfere with heating the air in the tank. Folks usually stick plants and stuff in the crabitat for visual interest instead.

If so, would I place the under tank heaters between the backdrop and the glass, or on top of the backdrop so that they would not be visible through the glass, if that makes sense.

Unrelated to the topic title, but still in the realm of heating, I have another question. For the top of our tank my husband cut panels of plexiglass. Four panels in all, two on each side which cover the entire top of the 55 gallon tank.

I am assuming that the new infrared heat bulb and fixture placed directly on top of the tank will probably melt the plexiglass panels.

HM: Yes. Spectacularly! Or so I've heard...

My husband is a welder/metal fabricator and has made a metal panel for me with a screen circle in the middle of it, about a quarter inch larger than the fixture all the way around. (Expecting bulb and fixture in the mail any day now, i have not actually set this up yet).

I am new to this board and not entirely sure how to post a picture of the metal panel described above, which my husband has fabricated for me. The metal that he used is food grade and he says it will not rust. I'm wondering if using this metal panel will cause any harm to the crabs or their environment? The other three plexiglass panels will remain with only one section being this new metal panel with the screen circle in it. I am assuming it wont matter since the crabs will not be coming into contact with the actual metal panel that the light will sit on. I hope that that makes sense and doesn't sound like a dumb question.

HM: I think I get it - it's like a reptile mesh lid, but it's solid, with a circle of mesh just larger than where you plan to put your infrared heat bulb. That is so cool that he made that for you!!! You asked about harm to the crabs, so I have a few questions - What material exactly did he make it out of? If you search metal on this forum, or I think it's also in the general crab care sheet, that will tell you what metals are bad - general consensus is that Ni, Cd, Pb, Cr, Zn, are bad (hope I didn't miss one...). Iron and rust should be fine - there are reefs built on rusted out ships. However, I'm not sure about stainless steel yet. Maybe folks on this forum have some experience with stainless as a lid? If your lid is just exposed to the moist environment, with no direct saltwater or marine salt exposure, just the high tank humidity (80%+), you should be good for several years (?) before you see corrosion, and you may not see corrosion ever on your lid, depending on your metal material and tank conditions. No corrosion = fine for crabs, in my opinion. I'm assuming he used some type of food grade stainless steel, and that he picked a welding method that is commonly used to build things for either marine exposure or high humidity. But if your lid stays hot, no condensation = no corrosion. Now, if you were to put something stainless in your tank/on your substrate, I would go with the general forum consensus, which is don't use it. I'm researching the stainless steel/saltwater corrosion products and how toxic they might be to crabs, but I don't have any answers yet. (This info might already be somewhere on this forum, I just haven't found it... there is so much awesome info on here! )

HM: To address infrared heat bulbs - I recommend looking at the Lights/UVB/Heating topic. The lid will probably get really hot. Making sure the bulb stays far enough away from crabs and doesn't overheat your metal panel/tank while at the same time maintaining humidity is a concern. Heat bulbs put out a LOT of heat, and the ballasts can overheat if they get too hot. If your heat bulb is real close to or touching the metal mesh, you may have an issue with your ballast getting too hot from reflected heat, so just be aware. However you set it up, I'd recommend measuring temperatures of your light/ballast/tank/lid quite frequently for the first week or so to make sure various components are not getting too hot. Aluminum foil should be fine to seal up hot surfaces and prevent escape of tank humidity, but bear in mind that it also reflects heat.

Thank you in advance for your advice.

Take Care,
CrabbyMommy2017

Best of luck with everything!!! Happy crabbing!!!

[CrabbyMommy2017]

I'm sorry I have not kept up with this topic thread more. My sweet little dog Peanut was hit by a car and died on Thursday night. I have been crying non-stop for 3 days now. I've had Peanut for over 10 years. She was the sweetest, gentlest, kindest dog I've ever known. It breaks my heart every second that I think about the fact that I will never see her again in this life.

I will post again in a few days, once i have some better news to report. Right now i just have to grieve.

[GotButterflies]

Totally understandable. I'm very sorry to hear about Peanut. Peace be with you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[soilentgringa]

I am very sorry for your loss. (sad face)

[Hermias_mom]

So sad to hear!

[CrabbyMommy2017]

Ive finally went two whole days without crying over the loss of my sweet Peanut Butt dog. Its hard to mess with the hermit crab tank much lately because that's what i was doing when she got hit by a car and killed. I worked on the tank for two hours that night and didnt realize Peanut had gotten out of the fence. I usually go to bed between 8pm and 10pm, but that night i was up until midnight trying to get the tank re-arranged. I know its not the crabs' fault, but its just hard for me. With two special needs toddlers i dont get a lot of free time to myself, so stuff like this has to be done once my kids go to bed. Finally i decided that the tank had to be done and the sooner i got the task completed the sooner i could move on. After a few days working on my garden that i planted over Peanut's grave, i moved my attention to re-arranging the hermit crab tank.

Ive gotten the salt water bowl up from its spot and into an easier place to clean out and refill (without fear of disturbing the molting crabs that are buried on either side just underneath it). Ive added layers of the playsand/ coconut fiber mixture in the depression (left after moving the salt water bowl), one inch per day (read about in another thread).

Ive put the infared light in place on the 'lid' my husband fabricated for me. This seems to be working well with no fear of melting anything. Humidity is staying constant and the light is warming that area well. The crabs still above ground are hanging out under the new light quite a bit.

I still need to move the under tank heaters from the bottom to the side of the tank. But I've been doing so much work in the tank and that that will have to wait for another weekend.

I have rearranged all of the tank decor so that the two water bowls, as well as the moss pit, are a lot easier to remove, clean and change the water in. I even used the double tupperware bowl trick that I read about on another thread (where you stack two tupperware bowls exactly alike). This way when I remove the moss pit, the sand mixture underneath does not cave in, and it's easier to put it back once I have cleaned it. I forget who posted that, and which thread I read it in, but it has greatly helped with maintenance.

Soon I hope to figure out how to post pictures so that the things I'm describing make more sense. But for now I think all is well with my crabs. I am almost out of the hermit crab salt water solution and will be purchasing the Instant Ocean tomorrow. I thank you all for your replies.

Take Care,
CrabbyMommy2017

[GotButterflies]

Glad it is all coming along for you! I know how hard it is to lose an animal. I worked in the veterinary field before my health got the best of me last year. Peanut will always be with you! I love to draw and paint, not sure about you, but have you thought about doing a portrait of Peanut? [HEAVY BLACK HEART]️


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk