Appropriate stand for crabitat & more?

[Momma And Company]

Hello! I'm new here and introduced myself in the "New Crabs and New Owners" section. I'm hoping to be a new crab momma this summer so I haven't put together my shopping list yet but I know that I'd like a 75G for 4 - 6 grabs to grow into. I just had some questions I hope you all could help me with as I keep learning and putting a plan together, hopefully.

1.) Substrate depth - I know for PP's which is probably all I'm ever going to find in my area, that 6" is the recommended minimum. I'd be looking to use a 5:1 ratio of play sand and EE but I have no idea what the potential size of my future crabs might be when I get them. So my question is:

Is it better to plan for 6 - 8" thinking they might be tiny to medium, or would it be better to go 8-12" - this way if they're smaller they have lots of digging down room as they grow and if they're larger this might suit better? I know this question is kinda open ended and highly speculative but I just wanted to try and get some opinions. I'm one of those annoying people who likes to gather as much info as possible before initiating a plan.

2.) Mixing sub - doing a 5:1 of play sand and EE, how do you mix it? I've read through the boards and have seen a lot of different methods with the most common seeming to be: 5 measurements of sand to 1 measurement of EE that's been wet with declor. freshwater or saltwater (IO) until it's "just moist and fluffy" and them mixed together and if more water is needed, say a 5lb batch at a time to add it in small amount and mix until when you grab a handful and squeeze it keeps its shape (sandcastle).

This is probably my MOST nervous part in thinking about a crabitat. I wouldn't want a flood right off the bat nor would I want it too dry. Could you walk me through how YOU mix up your sub, using the 5:1 sand/EE...?

3.) Crabitat stand - I know a lot of tanks tend to come with stands for the best deals. I used to be heavily into fish but now that I'm older I'm wary of having to use a step stool of some sort to set up/clean my tank. I had to change the light bulb for my front porch light a few months ago and I used a metal folding 2-step step ladder and I was VERY nervous and uncomfortable with my balance. I got it done safely but uuuugh. My question:

Has anyone ever used or tried to use, a really good, sturdy coffee table to put their crabitat on? Those can be varying heights but add to that the height of a usual 75G being 20" or so, I thought this might make me more comfortable. Ideally I'd like to be able to stand in front of the crabitat on it's stand of whatever kind, and be able to touch my palm to the bare bottom before adding substrate. Aka, the top rim of the tank would come to my armpit as I'm reaching inside. Thoughts?

3.) Mapping it out - has anyone ever mapped out their crabitat before hand? Example, what I want to do is buy some poster board (like for kids presentations at school, etc) and tape them together on the back. Then using a yard ruler and a marker, draw out how long and tall my tank will be including adding lines for the rims on top and bottom. That way I can "see" where my substrate depths will hit, how to place my appropriately sized UTH's on the "back" and "sides" (I'd flip the boards over to map out the sides) and how much play room I'll have above substrate and the glass lids.

Also on the back of the boards, besides figuring out the "sides" I could also map out length an width for above sub, so I could see how much room I'd have and placement for the 2 water sources, food dishes, etc. My apologies, I'm a bit analytical and OCD.

I'll be buying UltraTherm in the right size when I'm ready/can find them available - probably 2 for the back and 1 for each side. I might not need all of that but my house is old and drafty in winter so I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

4.) Insulation - I've read all about plastic cling wrapping a mesh lid, or foil covering cardboard for the UTH's but has anyone ever tried insulating the UTH's with styrofoam and foil? Again I'm in northern Ohio and my house is drafty, set to 71 F in winter on my house thermostat.

I have other questions about water pools and bubblers, moss, etc. but despite all my reading thus far I'm trying not to overwhelm myself so I'll just keep reading more and trying to take it one step at a time, LOL. Thank you for reading my post.

[curlysister]

1) I would start with the 6 inches, that should be plenty. Depth should be three times as deep as your largest crab. It is very unlikely that your new crab would be so large that 6 inches won't be enough.
2) 1 got a big bucket for mixing, a smaller bucket for wetting the EE, and used a big margarine container for measuring. I did it outside to avoid spilling indoors LOL. Put the dry EE (I had a brick) into the smaller bucket and added water and let the brick soak it up. Busted up the brick so it was loose. Measured about 5 margarine tubs of sand into the big bucket, and added one tub of EE. mixed it up with my hands. Carried bucket upstairs and dumped it into the tank. Repeat.
3) I am lazy, I mean laid back. Not OCD about anything. DIdn't map anything out, just put stuff in the tank wherever, and added some more stuff as needed. My tank is very basic, nothing fancy. I also use four UTH's (described in another post), it works well for me.
4) People definitely insulate the UTH's. Not all kinds can be insulated safely without being a fire hazard, so just be aware of that (Zoo Med is one brand that can not be insulated).

[curlysister]

Oops, just realized there are two of number 3! LOL

3) Yep, a very sturdy coffee table is exactly what I use!

[MurkyCrabs]

I can’t comment on the rest of this since my tank is just a 20 gal, but to mix up my sub I actually ended up going heavier on EE than sand. It doesnt have to be perfectly 5:1 by any means, the crabs just need to be able to safely tunnel with the sub being a sandcastle consistency. I probably have a 3:1 ratio of EE to sand because I ran out of supplies while I was mixing my sub for my tank and couldn’t get a 50 pound bag of playsand (the EE was FAR easier to get). What I do is I have a 5 gal bucked and fill it up halfway and mix. This way I can add dry EE as needed since when expanding it it’s really easy to add too much water. Then I add as much else as I can in the bucket without spilling (except I usually do, lol) and then mix some more. At that point I transfer to my tank. Since you have a bigger tank you would have to go back and do that a few more times, but I know in my case since I didn’t have enough I just used as little water as I possibly could to expand another brick of EE and mixed it together in my tank. Mixing in the tank is a lot easier but unfortunately all the excess water would pool up that way, so heavy lifting (that bucket is NOT light at the end) it is


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[Wlfwo]

If I ever manage to get the 75g out of the barn, I plan to use cement blocks (painted) and an appropriate sized board (also painted) that way I can have it at the height I need. I'm going to use cement glue (just can't remember what it's called) to avoid any slippage. I found the idea on a fish tank channel, fish tanks weigh more, so it should work for crabs.

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[curlysister]

When figuring whether a stand will hold a crab tank, a tank full of water (ie- for fish) weighs about the same as a tank about half full of moist substrate (ie- for crabs).

[Motörcrab]

A lot of your questions are a personal preference. Some things like depth of substrate can depend on species and crab size.

1. As curly stated 6" is a good start. I like to start with a bit more sub, maybe 7-8" since it tends to settle over the first few months.

2. Mixing sub I like to mix a bunch of smaller batches in 5 gallon buckets. I feel I can control the consistency a lot easier. It's more work, but it's easier to add more sand if you added too much water. Once mixed I like my sub to where it feels dry, but if I poke a finger into it, it keeps a hole.

3A. A lot of people made stands out of plywood and 2x4's. Making a stand would probably be your cheapest option, especially since you want something lower. I would put two 2x4 together for each corner, then add a three 2x4's in between. Due to the weight I would rather over engineer the design so it doesn't collapse.

I would avoid any tables that do not have a load rating that's at least double what you are putting on it. I work in the amusement industry so everything is always has a high safety factor.
3B. I usually sketch out my ideas on a paper. I don't have anything to exact scale but close enough for planning.

4. We have used foam insulation board in the past. It works but makes a mess cutting. We have found Reflectiix works very well and is much easier to work with. It's similar to bubble wrap but for home insulation.

We run tow UTH's on our tanks. On our 75 we have one across the back 11x 47 hooked up to a thermostat. A second on the side we plug in as needed.

Our kitty Fleabag helped with a heating guide a few years ago! http://www.hermitcrabassociation.com/ph ... e#p1072369

[crabbycasey]

You’ve got great answers from experienced crabbers, but thought I’d throw in how I mixed my substrate. I also do a 5:1 ratio playsand:coco fiber. I did all the mixing in my tank. Added first bag of playsand and then just eyed what seemed to be 1/5 of playsand layer of coco fiber on top. It doesn’t need to be exact. I then used a large spray bottle of treated water (I use Prime for freshwater) and focused on one area at a time, spraying and stirring...then spraying and stirring some more, lol. Used a big wooden spoon. Once that amount was the right consistency, I’d do the exact same thing again over top of first layer. It was easy to tell when I had reached the original layer and with all the stirring and moving the sub around, I felt confident I got it all the right consistency. Only cons with this was my arm felt like it was going to fall off after the spraying and stirring and the sound of the wooden spoon against the glass (eek). I was fortunate enough that my boyfriend could lift and pour the sand bag into the tank too. This part could be tricky...wish I could come help you, haha!


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[crabs_lex]

You’ve got great answers from experienced crabbers, but thought I’d throw in how I mixed my substrate. I also do a 5:1 ratio playsand:coco fiber. I did all the mixing in my tank. Added first bag of playsand and then just eyed what seemed to be 1/5 of playsand layer of coco fiber on top. It doesn’t need to be exact. I then used a large spray bottle of treated water (I use Prime for freshwater) and focused on one area at a time, spraying and stirring...then spraying and stirring some more, lol. Used a big wooden spoon. Once that amount was the right consistency, I’d do the exact same thing again over top of first layer. It was easy to tell when I had reached the original layer and with all the stirring and moving the sub around, I felt confident I got it all the right consistency. Only cons with this was my arm felt like it was going to fall off after the spraying and stirring and the sound of the wooden spoon against the glass (eek). I was fortunate enough that my boyfriend could lift and pour the sand bag into the tank too. This part could be tricky...wish I could come help you, haha!


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i find it easier to just dump a bunch of water in from my gallon of dechlorinated water abs mic it with my hands
i couldn’t imagine spraying it lol

[crabbycasey]

i find it easier to just dump a bunch of water in from my gallon of dechlorinated water abs mic it with my hands
i couldn’t imagine spraying it lol

Sounds much easier, lol. My forearms got a serious workout that day from the spray bottle, lol


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[Momma And Company]

1) I would start with the 6 inches, that should be plenty. Depth should be three times as deep as your largest crab. It is very unlikely that your new crab would be so large that 6 inches won't be enough.

Okay after reading through all the replies I was thinking maybe 8"? Because as someone said down below, it can settle over time. Also can I ask about "fluffing" - if all of my crabs are UP, could I "fluff" the top, say, 1 - 3 inches every so often? This is just in case I have climbers who might fall?

2) 1 got a big bucket for mixing, a smaller bucket for wetting the EE, and used a big margarine container for measuring. I did it outside to avoid spilling indoors LOL. Put the dry EE (I had a brick) into the smaller bucket and added water and let the brick soak it up. Busted up the brick so it was loose. Measured about 5 margarine tubs of sand into the big bucket, and added one tub of EE. mixed it up with my hands. Carried bucket upstairs and dumped it into the tank. Repeat.

Oh this sounds good! I was thinking of a 10 bucket to mix, and a 5 bucket to wet the EE as I go along. I'd be sitting in a chair right in front of my crabitat to do this indoors. Outside I'd have to lug it up my porch steps. I could do it on the porch I guess, but I worry about it being moist and bugs if I don't keep my eye on it since I'm hoping to set this all up this summer. I have only square/rectangle margarine containers, I think they'll work but not sure how long until they might bust/break. I used to have the really sturdy thick ones from the 70's, remember those? Only had 3 of them but family ruined them in the microwave.The goal for the EE block wetting is no water on the bottom, right? Or if you have some, "squeeze" it out in your hands?

3) I am lazy, I mean laid back. Not OCD about anything. DIdn't map anything out, just put stuff in the tank wherever, and added some more stuff as needed. My tank is very basic, nothing fancy. I also use four UTH's (described in another post), it works well for me.

That's usually how I am too, but I know the initial set up is important unless you want to mess with it a lot later if it's not good/right and it can stress them out so I'd like to have it where I want it (nothing too advanced!) so I and my crabbies can get used to it for a couple months.

4) People definitely insulate the UTH's. Not all kinds can be insulated safely without being a fire hazard, so just be aware of that (Zoo Med is one brand that can not be insulated).

Yeah I'll be looking at only UltraTherms, which is really the main hangup (besides weather) of when to set up my tank. Summer I think is good because I have my house thermostat set for 80 but I can go higher, like 85 even when I set up and do the sub, put it in, etc. But the major step, for me, is the UTH's - I need them on the tank an all connected so I can do some standard tests before I get the crabbies. This way I can find out if, in summer on average, having just 1 UTH on is enough to keep the temp good and humidity by watching my thermometer/hy meters for when my A/C is on and the night time temps hit. If I can get that sorted, I think I might be better heading into winter?

Thank you SOOO much!

[Momma And Company]

Oops, just realized there are two of number 3! LOL

3) Yep, a very sturdy coffee table is exactly what I use!

Ooh awesome! Yeah the coffee tables I'm looking at at all hard wood, like oak for example - not just the right top dimensions but the right internal support. I've found 4-5 that match in my area and even have some drawers for supplies underneath so I'm hopeful but waiting back to hear about their load-bearing tolerance.

[Momma And Company]

I can’t comment on the rest of this since my tank is just a 20 gal, but to mix up my sub I actually ended up going heavier on EE than sand. It doesnt have to be perfectly 5:1 by any means, the crabs just need to be able to safely tunnel with the sub being a sandcastle consistency. I probably have a 3:1 ratio of EE to sand because I ran out of supplies while I was mixing my sub for my tank and couldn’t get a 50 pound bag of playsand (the EE was FAR easier to get). What I do is I have a 5 gal bucked and fill it up halfway and mix. This way I can add dry EE as needed since when expanding it it’s really easy to add too much water. Then I add as much else as I can in the bucket without spilling (except I usually do, lol) and then mix some more. At that point I transfer to my tank. Since you have a bigger tank you would have to go back and do that a few more times, but I know in my case since I didn’t have enough I just used as little water as I possibly could to expand another brick of EE and mixed it together in my tank. Mixing in the tank is a lot easier but unfortunately all the excess water would pool up that way, so heavy lifting (that bucket is NOT light at the end) it is

Thank you so much for your reply! Yeah it's adding the water that really makes me nervous. I'm so a total newbie, so having TOO much EE might get me into trouble and I won't know it? Can I ask, do you leave the EE bricks whole and then drizzle water over them - then break them up, etc? Or do you break up the dry bricks as best you can, then add water?

That's, oddly, why I like the idea of 8" over 6 - not just because of settling but because in the initial 6" set up I might goof with too much water so then I'd have to add more sand and EE, yanno?

[Momma And Company]

If I ever manage to get the 75g out of the barn, I plan to use cement blocks (painted) and an appropriate sized board (also painted) that way I can have it at the height I need. I'm going to use cement glue (just can't remember what it's called) to avoid any slippage. I found the idea on a fish tank channel, fish tanks weigh more, so it should work for crabs.

That's a great idea! Have you ever tried to figure out the weight of the blocks you need, compared to a coffee table or stand? I'm sorry I don't have an engineers brain, I wish I did, but I'm sure if I put my mind to it I could try and figure it out but it seems to me with cement blocks and good boards it might end up heavier than a regular set up that can do the same? I'll need to look into this more.

[Momma And Company]

When figuring whether a stand will hold a crab tank, a tank full of water (ie- for fish) weighs about the same as a tank about half full of moist substrate (ie- for crabs).

Oh have I been figuring wrong? For example, a full 75 G with fish is about 850 - 900 pounds depending on sub, etc. But a dry 75 that's about 21" high, filled with maybe 6 - 8" sub, leaving 13 - 15" above for climbing room comes out at about 300-450lbs, depending?