Large/Jumbo beaten up by medium crab (but which medium one?)

[Nutcracker]

I TRIED POSTING THIS HOURS AGO, but it went to Drafts and I didn't know how to post it. Please review it soon. The injured crab seems okay for now (move this to a forum on "fighting" or the like?).

Hi, all,

Our largest hermie has 2 injuries, 1 serious: he's missing his large claw (the growth nub is still there), and he is missing the small tip of the first walking leg next to the feeding claw. He is active and interested in eating, has all antennae and both eye stalks, and I'm encouraged (we've been through worse), but I do need some advice.

You'll need hermie names, sizes, and personalities for this story. We have 4 hermies:
1. Dempsey: Large, 2.75-inch shell, but he doesn't quite fit (in the mottled shell from MyGann/Amazon, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OGQRCXW?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf). He is the most timid (risk-averse) hermie, which may explain his survival. He seemed like a bully when we first adopted him, but not now.
2. Phoenix: Medium, 2.25-inch shell (fits perfectly in https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DOEC0RU?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf; he's grown a lot and has thick legs). He is bolder than before.
3. Nutcracker: Medium, 2.25-inch shell (fits perfectly in lighter weight shell of same size as Phoenix; he's a lighter-weight survivor of two serious threats covered in past Forum posts, more recently this one (lost lg claw + 2 walking legs,
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=113690); and earlier this one (naked for days, viewtopic.php?f=27&t=101982). He is the only hermie of ours who is NOT timid with me and who was with me before I adopted the others together in a rescue. He has been aggressive and a shell diva, and he has attacked and even killed buried crabs.
4. Button: Tiny/Small, approx 0.75-inch shell. He keeps out of the way of the others and molts occasionally, disappearing for a month or so.

Yesterday's digging/buried status:
Phoenix (#2) up alone and active since 4+ weeks(?). Dempsey (#1), Nutcracker (#3), and Button (#4) buried.
Me/Mom? Worried that I should be seeing at least Button by about now! And what mischief is Nutcracker up to?
We have a 36-gallon tank with 9 inches of substrate.

Today's story:
When headed to our school and work day, we were greeted by a surprise return of Dempsey, who's been buried about 6 months or more. But something was clearly wrong with him.

Dempsey was out above substrate but avoiding Phoenix. When I came over, Dempsey ran into hiding. Later, Phoenix seemed to be following Dempsey a bit. Nutcracker and Button are still nowhere in sight. There are a number of unclaimed and larger shells around. I saw Dempsey's injured walking foot.

I set up the 5-gallon isolation tank for Phoenix, thinking that he was stronger and could move until I knew what was wrong. Also, Phoenix could manage with the shallower substrate there (4-5" vs. 9") and might not need to bury. I had a hygrometer/thermometer fail since using it, so Phoenix is in unmonitored but in as ideal conditions as I know to provide until I can buy a second device. Phoenix has no injuries.

Both crabs have these foods out: egg shell, spirulina, flax seed, meal worms, and Gardner's hermit crab food (shown in this kit, https://www.petsupermarket.com/small-pe ... -crab-kit/). Dempsey, because of his size, recent digging, long disappearance, and big injury also has these foods: peanut butter, chard, corn husk, and EVOO (I'm out of organic coconut oil).

Since moving Phoenix to the 5-gallon iso, where he ate a little and then settled down, Dempsey has been moving around freely in his tank. He was interested in his food dish, but he seemed unable or unwilling to push a hanging swing bridge and the corn husk over enough to fit out from under the bridge to eat, even with spirulina there! Then he investigated his peanut butter and may have eaten some, but left it within 2 minutes, possibly because I was watching him. THIS still time over the PB dish was when I discovered that he was missing his big claw! The EVOO was not yet in the tank.

For the rest of the morning, I've seen Dempsey eat nothing. He's let me hold him and come out to greet me. He's been sitting in a "hermie hut" that I keep upside down as a bowl to contain empty shells, so it's not clear whether he's enjoying the coziness of the space or enjoying the company of smaller shells that fit in there.

Advice needed:
1. Was moving Phoenix to give Dempsey space and freedom the right decision?
2. Whom do we think hurt Dempsey: Phoenix or Nutcracker?
3. How long should Phoenix stay in isolation so that Dempsey has some time to himself above the substrate in the larger tank?
4. Should I look for Nutcracker, against my better judgement?
5. Should I look for Button, against my better judgement?

Any other questions and advice are welcomed! Thanks!

[piratetoothgir]

Hello! Sorry for the troubles you've been having.

Could you fill out this template? It'll really help us judge what is going on.
http://www.hermitcrabassociation.com/ph ... 27&t=46102

I read as best as I could, and I think I understand what is going on.
If you have this crab in isolation, and he is injured, I would give him access to water, and some food. You can use bee pollen, peanut butter, honey. I put those on q-tips for ease of access.
Here are some answers to your questions

Yes, I think he's better there in ISO for a while.
Well, since I am not physically there, I didn't see this happen and am not totally sure. If you witnessed evidence, then you can go by that information and judge better.
I would put him in ISO until his strength is regained, and he is drinking, and eating normally.
Don't dig up any crabs if they are down! You will damage them more than trying to help them. It's better to wait it out.

[GotButterflies]

Hello! I'm sorry that you are going through this.

Filling out the template mentioned above would be helpful. Hermits can become more aggressive before molting, so it is possible that it could have been a shell fight. Perhaps Phoenix wanted Dempsey's shell. IDK. At this point Dempsey cannot defend himself without his big pincher, but he can still eat since he has his little one, so qtips are not necessary. I do recommend a lot of proteins, calcium, raw honey, bee pollen to help him get his strength up. Powdered and well ground foods would be best for him since he doesn't have both claws to rip the food apart with. You could even try organic baby food. If it were me, I would isolate Dempsey so he can recover without further injuries - but that is me.

I hope that helps. I look forward to seeing the template completed.

[Nutcracker]

Hi, there,
Thank you for reaching out with immediate replies and advice. Sorry for the late answer, after a couple of busy days. I can fill out the template here shortly, but I wanted to clarify a couple of things first.

Dempsey is actually in the main tank, but because Nutcracker and Button are buried, it is as though Dempsey were in isolation. But because Nutcracker could come up and threaten Dempsey at any time, I am still a bit concerned about leaving Dempsey in the main tank. If Nutcracker was actually the one who injured Dempsey, then Dempsey is in greater danger in the main tank than if he were in the 5-gallon isolation tank. However the 5-gallon isolation tank is really not big enough for Dempsey, which is why I moved Phoenix there. As long as Nutcracker remains buried in the main tank, then Dempsey should be safe in the main tank.

So Phoenix, the medium-sized but uninjured crab, is in isolation. My concerns for Phoenix are that he is in a tank with no hydrometer or thermometer. I have no evidence that Phoenix was the one who hurt Dempsey, and I suspect as strongly that Nutcracker hurt Dempsey below the substrate. There is no sign of Dempsey's missing claw above the substrate, so it was lost and possibly eaten below (it would be big enough to cause an odor on its own, wouldn't it, if it hadn't been eaten?).

Dempsey has a lot of rich foods, and everything is very finely ground. After I was out for a few hours today, I found that he had been in his peanut butter bowl and eating a lot. This made me very happy! He had moved his bowl of extra virgin olive oil, but I couldn't tell whether he'd had any. He has a variety of foods from the Isopod Connection store, including eggshell and the other foods I mentioned in the original post, but I have not yet provided honey. I do not actually have any bee pollen on hand. Thank you for your tip of providing nothing that he has to tear since he has no large claw to hold the other side with. Of course, this seems obvious in retrospect, but I hadn't thought of it.

One essential question is whether Nutcracker might be the actual perpetrator of the fight with Dempsey, rather than Phoenix. If Nutcracker caused the fight, survived the fight, and resurfaces (especially when I'm not nearby to hear them), then Nutcracker could be a serious threat to Dempsey. If Dempsey needs to be in true, complete isolation, then I must prepare a tank for him with enough substrate to suit his needs. He seems able and willing to eat almost normally.

Thanks!

(Edited on 6/6 for spelling errors caused by previous dictation.)

[GotButterflies]

It is possible that it could have been another crab. When crabs are molting, sometimes before they go down, or right before they are going to molt they go to a bigger shell. This could be due to the molting sac being large - I'm not sure. Crabs are still capable of digging without their big claw, but they cannot defend themselves, for their big claw is what protects them when they pull all of the way into their shell. It also helps them when they are establishing dominance. Do you have a kritter keeper? You could always put the crab without a big claw in that inside of your tank so he is protected so he is getting heat, and temp. He is not going to molt until he has a molt sac. I hope that helps!

[Nutcracker]

Dempsey is still doing very well. Sorry for delayed updates: Work is insanely busy this week, and kids have been in testing for days. I couldn't get the template filled out yet.

Yesterday, Dempsey changed from his somewhat squashed 2.75-inch shell into a round turbo 2.75-inch shell. He cannot fit back into this turbo shell at all, even without his large claw. It has a 1 and 3/8-inch-wide aperture. He had a polished, 3.25-inch turbo shell available in the tank, but chose this smaller, heavier one instead, as before. So last night, I put in another 3.25- to 3.5-inch turbo shell, and it's been moved by about 8 inches across the substrate! But not accepted.

There are other good signs for Dempsey. He has been able to pull apart pieces of wood, which he is chewing and eating by holding on to the logs with his 4 walking feet and then using his feeding claw to pull apart the wood. While he can't do this for small food items, he seems to be very happy chewing on wood this week. He's devouring peanut butter at a rapid rate and eating all of the granular foods that I've given him. I've left out mealworms because I think they're too small to grab and too large to eat without two claws to rip apart. The olive oil is also being eaten or spilled: I can't tell which because he's either moving it out of the way of the peanut butter, or he's chasing it around the clamshell that the two tiny dishes holding the peanut butter and the olive oil are sitting in.

Dempsey has also been dumping out all of the shells in the shell shop, climbing, and enjoying the entire expanse of the substrate in his 35-gallon tank. In terms of putting him in a critter keeper, I think he's simply too big to put in one since they hold only about one gallon and he's even too big for the 5-gallon ISO tank that I have. This is why I put the smaller crab, Phoenix, into isolation, where Phoenix is also doing well at this time.

I have never been able to find a molt sac on any of my hermit crabs, so I feel uninformed about this critical area of knowledge that I need. Does anyone have a picture of a crab with a molt sac, especially a large crab? Dempsey certainly seems to be eating enough food to create one, so I need to find out soon. If he digs into the 9 in of substrate and Nutcracker is still down there, then Dempsey's life could be in danger again.

Following on the above, I have no idea what has happened to Nutcracker and Button. It is possible that Nutcracker and Dempsey got into a huge fight and that Nutcracker has died. This would distress me very much, but not knowing about Dempsey's chances if he goes down to molt is also distressing. I'm also concerned about not knowing where Button is because he's so small and should have resurfaced by now. Even though Button should pose no threat to Dempsey (unless Dempsey is totally soft?), I would like to know whether Button is still down there molting or has been attacked by Nutcracker or Dempsey.

So the current status is:
MAIN TANK:
(35 gal, 9 in sub, temp 91, and RH 84) - no fishy/dead odors in tank.
* Dempsey (very large) : On surface, missing entire large claw and top of opposite leg, eating everything and changing/exploring shells that are too small (needs 3.25- inch but won't take either one available).
* Nutcracker (medium): Buried or killed, could have been Dempsey's attacker. Might be molting or lurking.
* Button (tiny): Buried or killed.

ISO TANK:
(5 gal, 5 in sub, temp 80, and RH unknown but moist)
* Phoenix (medium): Doing fine but cramped and his RH is not monitored because I have only one hygrometer; it feels moist and I soaked a lot of coconut fiber, which is helping a lot. He needs company but he was scaring Dempsey on Friday, so I moved him. He's in isolation only because he fits in the 5-gal better than Dempsey does.

[Nutcracker]

Just a quick update that everything is going well with this former emergency.

Dempsey, our seriously injured large/jumbo, ate a lot and buried himself nearly a month ago, to recover. I was DELIGHTED when Nutcracker came up within one or two days of Dempsey's digging under! Nutcracker is just fine, so I quickly moved him out to join the others.

Dempsey is moving around substrate, in the 35-gallon tank, with 9" of substrate. Temp and humidity are both maintaining nicely around 85.

All 3 of our other hermit crabs are now in a 20-gallon tank with about 5" of substrate. They would benefit from more headroom and substrate, but Dempsey "claimed" the bigger tank first. They are generally enjoying themselves. It's clear that Phoenix has now outgrown Nutcracker. Our little Button is minding his own business (away from the big guys). I wonder whether Dempsey will resurface before December.

[Nutcracker]

Hi, everyone, final update and a happy ending:
Dempsey is in WONDERFUL shape, and he is back to normal with his beautiful, big claw. (He still needs to take a larger shell, though.)
Nutcracker is back also, and he is now clearly a little smaller than the other medium, Phoenix. None of them seem to want their larger shells, waiting for them.
Only little Button has a shell that lets him pull completely inside. But my big divas do make me happy!
Thanks for your help in getting all of my little friends back into one big tank again.