Any way to tell a crab is dead besides smell?

[trashbees]

Since you've come to the emergency forum, we know you want a fast answer to your question. In order for us to figure out the problem as quickly as possible, we ask that you answer the following questions as best you can. Some of them may seem odd, but they're all designed to give us the information we need to give you a good solution for your problem. The things in the [ brackets ] are there to make this post easier to read once submitted. Thanks!


1. What kind of substrate is used in your tank and how deep is it?
EE only (yes I know EE/playsands mixes are recommended), ~7 inches deep

2. Do you have gauges in the tank to measure temperature and humidity? If so, where are they located and what temperature and humidity do they usually read?
Usually have a single gauge in the tank, located about midway between heat sources and the rest of the tank. Humidity and temp are both usually around 80. I've since moved the gauge to an ISO tank, as the main tank is usually pretty stable and I wish to keep an eye on the ISO tank.

3. Is a heat source used in the tank? If so, what?
Two large UTHs on outside of the back wall of the tank.


4. What types of water are available (fresh or salt) and how is the water treated (what brands of dechlorinator or salt mix and what ratio is used to mix it)?
Both fresh and salt water available in dishes deep enough to submerge them. Both water sources treated with Seachem Prime (two drops per gallon), saltwater uses Instant Ocean as per box instructions on mixing.


5. What kinds of food do you feed and how often is it replaced?
Feed a mixture of food, mostly THCP mixes. Frequent mixes used for majority of diet are surf and turf, THCP basic diet, and sweet claws popcorn mix. Often offer other foods like leaf mixes, bee pollen, snake skin, fruit mixes, whatever random leftover produce I happen to have that is on the safe foods list. Recently provided asparagus for the first time. I keep a separate dish available with calcium sources like coral honey and chips of oyster shell.


6. How long have you had the crab and what species is it, if known?
I've owned the crab for about a year and a half, it was previous owned for a couple years by another crab owner. Purple pincher. Overall been owning crabs for 2 years.


7. Has your crab molted, and how long ago did it happen?
Pretty certain she has molted at least once while in my possession, though I do not know when. I keep 9 crabs in a 40 gallon breeder, and do not isolate molters. Generally assume crabs are molting if I do not see them over the course of a week or so (not counting a few shy ones that spend large amounts of time hiding).


8. What type of housing are the crabs kept in, what size is it and what kind of lid is on the housing?
40 gallon breeder tank with metal grate lid covered with plastic wrap.


9. How many crabs are in the tank and about how large are they?
9 crabs, 8 of them a little over the size of a golf ball. One is a bit smaller than a golf ball.


10. How many extra shells are usually kept in the tank, if any?
There are around 20+ extra shells kept in the tank in various sizes, almost all of them polished turbos of a few different varieties.


11. Have there been any fumes or chemicals near the crabitat recently?
No.


12. How often do you clean the tank and how?
Mostly only remove old food, poop tends to just get buried instantly so spot cleaning poop usually isn't a priority. I change out the water when it gets dirty. Occasionally tidy up the decor and shells some as the crabs tend to make a mess of things over time. Recently added another inch or so of substrate to the tank as it was a bit low, worried this may have caused problems but the rest of my crabs seem normal so idk.


13. Are sponges used in the water dish? If so, how are they cleaned?
No sponges used.


14. Has anything new been added to your crabitat recently?
Recently added more EE on top of old EE (about an inch). Used the loose stuff then drizzled treated water on top and heavily sprayed it with a water bottle. Tidied up the decor and added more sphagnum moss to the moss pit (which was pretty empty prior)


15. Is there any other information you would like to share that might be helpful (anything that is regularly part of your crab care, playtime, bathing, etc.)?
No.


16. Please describe the emergency situation in detail.
Last Wednesday (4/8) I found one of my crabs, Beatrice (one I adopted from another member of this forum a year and a half ago) shellless and lethargic above ground laying on top of the substrate. She was located close to an empty shell, but this shell was not the shell I had last noticed her in. Monday (4/6) she was very active and behaving normally. I do not know how she lost her shell or how long she was shellless before I discovered her (She was certainly not shelless the night prior to the morning I found her, so she could have been shelless for many hours). Since the nearby empty shell was different than the shell I originally saw her happily wearing, I'm mildly inclined to think she may have been the victim of a shell-fight, but she was not missing any limbs and I have not had issues with fighting in the past (Although I had one crab missing a leg long ago which I suspected may have been due to a shell fight).

Upon finding her, I removed her from the main tank and isolated her in a 10 gallon tank (with EE, somewhat swallow water dishes, one hut, moss, and a food dish; I'm also covering it with a sheet to keep it dark). I provided a few shells in the tank, but she did not house herself in any of them. I semi-reshelled her manually (Didn't seem perfectly positioned in the shell, but I didn't want to stress her out too much more). She later seemed to have situated herself in the shell better, but was extremely lethargic. I offered her some honey on a q-tip, but do not think she ate any. I settled her by her food, but the next day she was in the same position and entirely unresponsive. I moved her to a hut and put some moss near her. I'm not convinced she is molting, as she was not really showing any behavior to suggest she was about to molt, and finding her naked was very unusual. I've been checking on her about once a day, mostly just to make sure the tank conditions are correctly. There is still no smell of death or any other changes to suggest anything after a week.

Not particularly seeking crab care advice or emergency info, as I feel I've done about all I can at this point. I wish to know if there is absolutely any feasible way to tell if a crab is definitely dead besides the smell of decay (which I hear does not always happen) or outright visible rotting/molding. I'm not very pleased with all this uncertainty, and would prefer to not wait for her body to collapse into a rotten heap before I declare her dead (I have a hobby of collecting bones and other dead animal related stuff, and I would like to attempt to preserve her in some manner if she is indeed dead). Anyone have any ideas of absolutely any other way to tell if a crab is dead or molting other than smell? Interested in really any creative ideas (respiration, temperature, etc? I have an oxygen sensor available, no clue if a molting crab would use up enough oxygen to be measurable.) I'm aware that there probably just is no way to determine if she's dead aside from waiting for signs of life or rot, but wish to explore and see if there's any other options, experimental or not.

.

[Crabby7Crabber]

You definitely sound like you're doing your best. I wish you the best of luck! Dead hermies (awh- I hate saying that) I've seen seem to be in a curled position most of the time with their eye stalks almost tucked in, if you get what I'm saying. Also, I've noticed their antennae are folded into their body as well. I'm not sure if any other people's passed crabs were like this, but mine were, and I made sure they were deceased before taking them out (even if that meant leaving them for a few days and them starting to stink ). But with yours, I would leave them be. If you don't smell the odor, there's a good chance they're still alive. I'm not much of an expert but I'm trying the best I can to help! Again, I wish you the best of luck and will try to check in at least once a day

[JoeHermits]

I also don’t think she’s preparing to molt.

And no, hermit crabs don’t always smell, especially if they’ve dried out.

If she’s not responding to anything you may try picking her up and gently grabbing a leg. If she’s dead she’ll slide around in her shell if you tug her.

I know it sounds morbid to do but not reacting to anything usually isn’t a good sign.


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[trashbees]

She's in a loosely curled position. I wouldn't say her eyestalks are folded in, and her longer antennae are sticking out. It's been several days with no smell so maybe I'll be lucky and she is just going through a really wild surface molt (which still ain't great, since that's already very precarious). I'd like to think she's still alive since there's no nasty smell but it's all been so abnormal I feel like it's far more likely that she has just passed. I just hate that I can't be certain Unless she gets smelly. Kinda inclined to say she may still be alive just because she's a pretty meaty gal.... I feel like she would have started to get some sort of odor by now. But idk, sometimes I toss some shrimp tails in the crab tank and they don't seem to get too gross... who knows. I'll try to update this thread when I know for sure what the turnout is.

I don't really want to do any tugging on her, I've already disturbed her a Lot upon initially finding her, and once to pick her up to give her a good sniff several days after moving her to ISO. Pretty sure that's already a dangerous amount of handling. And also, wouldn't a molting crab also potentially slide around in the shell? She is certainly unresponsive, but most molting crabs are as well.

[JoeHermits]

No, molters stay clamped inside their shells while they molt.


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[trashbees]

Still no crab smell but the food I left in her tank certainly went bad ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Worked up the nerve to very gently tug on her legs some. Her walking legs felt kind of loose but her body seemed firmly lodged in her shell. I would like to tentatively say she may be alive. No clue if she will make it through a whole molt though if she is going through a surface molt. Gonna stay hands off for now on and hope for the best.

[Crabby7Crabber]

If she stayed inside her shell there's a good chance she's still alive, especially considering there's no smell. Hands off is probably the best option!