Yet Another Death! - Was Fine-ish Yesterday

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:18 pm

Last night I was playing with my crabbies and everyone seemed fine. Well, Irving is currently barricaded under the water dish and I haven't seen him since almost two weeks ago when my Mervin passed on (no death smell and he's been moving under the sand like some sort of desert groundhog). Iggy is fine and active and eating everything in site (food bowls empty not long after they are put in the tank). But Eowyn did not seem like herself. She was kind of listless and didn't move around on my hand a lot. I thought she might be ready to moult because she had been eating a little. This morning, she was on her back not moving. Thinking she might be moulting (she's surface moulted twice), I gently placed her under a coconut shell so the others wouldn't get her. This evening, I checked on her and she fell out of her shell, quite dead (non-responsive to any stimuli, not even a twitch).

This is my second death in two weeks! I don't know what is going on. Now I am scared for my other two crabs! I don't know if Mervin was sick and Eowyn caught it (they were always together) and I am scared my others will get sick. I don't know if she was lonely because Mervin died. Was she stressed from the cage getting more sand put in (even though she seemed fine). I just don't know.

Any ideas? I am very upset about this and very scared for my other babies (I would be devastated if Irving died too).

Tank Stats:

1. Substrate used? Calci-sand and regular sand

2. Humidity % level in crabitat? 75%

3. Temperature of substrate in crabitat? Unknown

4. Temperature of crabitat? 78 degrees

5. Location of gauges? Half-way between the corner of the cage and the side, midway from top to bottom.

6. What is your heat source? Room heat with supplemental Sun Glo/Night Glo lamp.

7. Types of water available? Salt water and fresh water

8. Dechlorinator used? Tap Water Conditioner (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc)

9. What do you feed? Dried (semi-remoistened) fruits, carrots, crushed pellet food.

10. How long have you had the crab in question? Almost a year and a half

11. Do you know the species? PP

12. Do you bath them, if so how often and with what? Used to bathe them about once a month or once every two months (Stress-Coat, one to two drops per quart). Haven't bathed them in about two months.

13. What type of housing are they in? Tank? Plastic box? Glass aquarium

14. What size is your tank? 10 gallon tank

15. How many crabs are in the tank? What size are they? Three at the time. My large crab is somewhere between medium and almost large (I don't have a printer and Iggy does not like being held up to the computer screen for comparison). Irving is small bordering on medium (don't tell him that... he thinks he's Jumbo) and Eowyn was definitely small.

16. How deep is the substrate? 4-5 inches and of an almost sand-castle consistancy

17. If you take your hermies out daily to exercise, do you mist their gill area first? I don't take them out to play often and I don't mist them.

18. Has there been any cleaners, paints, perfumes, air fresheners, candles, or smoking near the crabitat? No

19. How often do you clean/sterilize and how? Once a month or as needed.

20. Any unusual odors? None.

21. Do you use sponges? Are they rinsed daily with dechlor water? Are they exchanged every 2 days for a sterile one? Yes, yes, no.

22. Do you feed fresh food? When do you remove it? Yes, next day or the day after.

23. Are your hands clean before handling? They aren't dirty/no lotion or perfume

24. Has there been anything new added to your crabitat recently? No. I did recently add more substrate since my last post when Mervin died.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:51 pm

im sorry about your hermies

i dont see any big problems with the template you filled out. when was the last time she molted? i recently bought an E who had very ashy eyes, ready to molt (store had gravel substrate). he died in a few days. i dont know if it was PPS or just the prolonged molt or maybe a combo. just a thought since you said she surface molted twice, did she have any normal ones?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:23 pm

I'm so sorry about your losses. I think you do a very nice job with their care.

Just to throw some ideas out there, a sponge could be creating a bacteria that's making them sick. After I lost a crab to a bacterial infection I stoped using sponges. Although, it doesn't sound like a definite bacterial issue to me.

What brand of salt water do you use? Sometimes even the ones made for hermies are much too weak of a solution. This sounds to me like a more likely culprite than infection.

Also, sometimes deaths are mysterious, and they happen and we never know why they happened.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:39 pm

Eowyn never moulted normally that I can tell. I got her from another girl who kept her in a tank with about three other crabs and their only substrate was some paper towels.

I do clean the sponges in boiling water and then rinse them (never noticed any weird odors) and I throw them away when the crabs eat it down to a pathetically small point. Maybe I should just throw it out and stop using them?

Oh, I use Oceanic salt.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:53 pm

You could try that, although you do a great job and my instincts are to say it's a "mysterious" death.

Myself personally, I always feel doing something, making a change, even though I'm not convinced at the cause makes me feel a little better.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:24 am

The only thing that I could think of was the

"crushed pellet food"

with what you feed them. What kind of pellets do you use? I am not sure how I feel about pellets because some may contain things that are harmful to hermies over a long period of time, and since you have had them for a year and a half that may be it, but I am not sure.

otherwise it all looks really good. Everything else is the same way I keep mine. I hope the others are doing well.[/quote]

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:15 am

I'm so sorry for your loss. And feeling like there might have been something you could have done different is just a reaction to having cared as deeply as you did/do for them. It sounds like you really have been doing everything right. I am really wondering if there isn't some kind of psychological factor in multiple crab deaths within a close period of time. It seems kinda common around here. I mean we already know there is some degree of psychological complexity to our little buddies. i.e. pps, and maybe they aren't the simple little creatures some assume them to be. As a closing note, I have done away with my sponges. It's just easier to mist everything once or twice a day. If you have the space you can always add another small water dish. Hugs to you morika-

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blaze88 · Post by **blaze88** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:40 pm

The only thing I saw wrong was the food. As said before the pellates over time can kill them. The copper sulfate and exquion (spelled WAY wrong, srry) are deadly over time. I would sujest stopping the pellaet if they contain eaither of these ingredents. You should also buy some calcuim supliment for lizards and put it on their food. The crabs could also have a protien deficency. Buy some preservative free dried blood worms, shrimp, and or plancton. You could also buy my kibble (just PM me). Which fruits do you feed? I sujest ALWAYS feeding raspberries once a weel because crabs don't get any other source of vitamin D. Rosehips, Alfalfa. and papaya (not sure if they can have papaya) are also good sources of vitamin D. You could also take them out in the sun every so often. Most people don'thave a problem with vitamin D because there crabs have been in the wild in the sun long enough to get a large store in their bodies, but eventually the store does run out. Smoke will also diminish vitamin D, that is a major reason that when people smoke arround their tanks the crabs get sick. The big thing is without vitamin D calcium will NOT be processed and the crabs can't shed propperly.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:45 am

I have removed any food containing the words 'copper' or 'ferrous' in the ingredient list. But most of my food didn't contain copper. They do contain Ethoxyquin. Where can one normally obtain food (such as blood worms, shrimp or plankton) that does not contain poisonous preservatives? Or does anyone have recipes that they would be willing to share regarding the food they personally feed their crabbies?

As for taking them out in the sun, I do have a lizard lamp on them with UVB spectrum bulb to simulate the sun (so they can get their vitamin D). I can't take them outside because it is very cold out and will be until March or April.

So far my remaining babies seem to be active and healthy. *crosses fingers hoping they stay that way*

Thank you all for your support!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:05 pm

I'm gald you're other guys are doing well!

*Kathy* has reciepes on her site. If you look for her in the members list you'll find her (or just look in the pictures forum for her name-it might be faster). Narnar also sells organic kibbles and treats w/o perservitives and my crabs LOVE them. Yesterday my food bully, BFG (large) was grabbing another crab's shell and forceably removing them for Narnar's food in the dish (even though there was another food dish with no one in it).

blaze88 · Post by **blaze88** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:15 pm

I sell al natural kibbles, but you can get the bloodwormes etc. in the fish section of any petsmart or petco. Just check the ingredents. Omega one is a good brand