New owner, crabs coming home tonight, advice?

[hprmom]

KellyCrabbieLove gave me some good info over in the Emergency forum, but since I'm now off topic I'm moving my discussion over here.

Since we lost the hermie my son's science teacher sent home, we decided to try again. We're adopting my girlfriend's two, below is what I posted about them before. What I'd like from the forum is advice on how to bring their conditions up to par and the preferred way to go about it, what issues I might run into, anything I should look out for?
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I was talking with a girlfriend today, her kids have lost interest in her two hermit crabs and she offered them to us along with the tank. She says they're "hardy" which is to say that out of the original batch of six, these two have stayed alive for two years in moderate conditions (tank on an enclosed porch in Florida year-round, no additional heat source, a lot more coco fiber than sand, and she didn't realize it was supposed to be sand-castle consistency so she's only kept it damp. Sounds like she feeds them well enough (no store bought food, but no special effort). Other than roaches in a rotting log she removed, she's never noticed any pests (pests are my biggest fear.. I hate roaches but live in Florida!). She says they are not small, but not big either (medium?) and haven't molted in probably over a year. Based on what I've read here, my guess is that if I improved their substrate type/depth, they'd probably dig in and disappear right away... One is in a painted shell, others are available so she's not sure why it hasn't switched out.
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We had a few nights with temps in the 40's last month and these little guys have their tank in a corner window on an enclosed porch. Last night temps dropped again, so this morning (when I asked) my girlfriend brought them into the main house. Forecast is calling for low temps for the next week so we decided to go ahead and pick them up from her tonight.

Here are some pics she sent me:




Based on what I've read on the forum, here's what I think we need to do right away. Please correct/advise me!

(1) Substrate. Mix of eco earth and sand, get up to 6". There's coconut fiber in the tank, should I just use what is there or start new? How coarse/fine is the coco fiber supposed to be? My guess from what I've read is that these hermies are likely to dig in and disappear for a molt as soon as I give them a good base to do it!

(2) Water. There might be water in with the shells, I can't tell. I need to get two sources in there, fresh and salt. I'm going to pick up some Instant Ocean, do I just follow the instructions on the package? For freshwater, the conditioners I have on hand are Top Fin (Petsmart brand, which we use in our fish/snail tanks) and All Living Things (came in a hermit crab starter kit). I also have small bottles of store-bought fresh- and salt-water solution, All Living Things brand. Are they junk or will they do for now? I didn't think to ask what kind of water she's been giving them, she doesn't have fish or anything so I doubt she's been treating any water that goes into the tank. To be fair, I forgot to ask.

(3) Humidity. I think just getting the substrate up to par will take care of this. The ambient humidity in my house right now is 60% already! I have a gauge already calibrated and ready to go. Will it hurt them to jump straight into high humidity from their current conditions? (Remember they have been like this for two years.)

(4) Heat. Since these little guys are accustomed to fluctuating temps, what should my goal be? In the "winter" my house is between 68-72F, and the other ten months of the year we keep the a/c at 74-75F. Should I get an ultratherm to bump it up a few degrees? Alternatively, I have a dome heat lamp with a 50-watt "nighttime" bulb that we suspended over our first crab's enclosure to get it to 80F, but my husband is wary of using it because that crab didn't make it (there were other factors). In either case, do I need to bring the heat up slowly? How would I control that with a UTH? I have to order the ultratherm so I wouldn't have it for a few days, should I use the heat lamp in the meantime? Or just bump my house heat up to 74 until the ultratherm gets here?

I've been reading up in the crabitat forum and I want to remodel by adding a moss pit, maybe second level, climbing stuff. We have a half-log hide I can just drop in there, too. Other than the four items above, what should I do right away, and what can wait? Would it unduly stress them if I remodel their tank over the next week? What am I overlooking?

Thanks so much!! This forum has already been a tremendous help, now it's getting real.

[landlubber]

You asked some great questions, and you are so lucky to have an opportunity to adopt! Please have confidence that as a beginner you are grasping the concepts of crabbing perfectly, and how you think about things shows you'll be a great crabber-you have the instincts for it.

(1) Substrate. Mix of eco earth and sand, get up to 6". There's coconut fiber in the tank, should I just use what is there or start new? How coarse/fine is the coco fiber supposed to be? My guess from what I've read is that these hermies are likely to dig in and disappear for a molt as soon as I give them a good base to do it!
You can use the substrate in their 10 if there are no funky smells. It should be fine coconut fiber like eco earth so they can easily build their underground caves. I agree, it is very likely they will dig down to molt almost immediately-within a month they'd all be down I'd think.

(2) Water. There might be water in with the shells, I can't tell. I need to get two sources in there, fresh and salt. I'm going to pick up some Instant Ocean, do I just follow the instructions on the package? For freshwater, the conditioners I have on hand are Top Fin (Petsmart brand, which we use in our fish/snail tanks) and All Living Things (came in a hermit crab starter kit). I also have small bottles of store-bought fresh- and salt-water solution, All Living Things brand. Are they junk or will they do for now? I didn't think to ask what kind of water she's been giving them, she doesn't have fish or anything so I doubt she's been treating any water that goes into the tank. To be fair, I forgot to ask.
I think the instructions on IO is for 5 gallon make up. Crabbers use 1/2 cup of salt in a gallon of water of IO. The brand I KNOW is okay to use is the Top Fin, although it does not remove Ammonia so I don't know if your water condition needs that-but it would be safest to get a brand that removes metals, Chlorine/Chloramine, and Ammonia (there are a list of some brands and what they do here: http://www.hermitcrabassociation.com/ph ... 25&t=92553

(3) Humidity. I think just getting the substrate up to par will take care of this. The ambient humidity in my house right now is 60% already! I have a gauge already calibrated and ready to go. Will it hurt them to jump straight into high humidity from their current conditions? (Remember they have been like this for two years.)
If you have moist substrate and a good lid- you shouldn't have to worry too much about getting it within range, although it often takes a little playing around to temps and humidity where you want them and that's okay. It is an excellent question about sudden changes in conditions, and the answer is that it is a debate, and to read more about it you can read here-the bottom under the heading "The debate about Environmental Stress" by clicking this link: http://www.hermitcrabassociation.com/ph ... 67&t=92531

(4) Heat. Since these little guys are accustomed to fluctuating temps, what should my goal be? In the "winter" my house is between 68-72F, and the other ten months of the year we keep the a/c at 74-75F. Should I get an ultratherm to bump it up a few degrees? Alternatively, I have a dome heat lamp with a 50-watt "nighttime" bulb that we suspended over our first crab's enclosure to get it to 80F, but my husband is wary of using it because that crab didn't make it (there were other factors). In either case, do I need to bring the heat up slowly? How would I control that with a UTH? I have to order the ultratherm so I wouldn't have it for a few days, should I use the heat lamp in the meantime? Or just bump my house heat up to 74 until the ultratherm gets here?
I am not an expert on heating devices. From my perspective a 5 or slightly more degree drop if it's CONSTANT might be just fine, but if it can't drop and climb at the same times, every day then it would probably be better to just keep it constant. If it were me I'd aim for 80 degrees because then if something happens it's farther to fall to dangerous levels (dog knocks plugs out of outlets for example).


I've been reading up in the crabitat forum and I want to remodel by adding a moss pit, maybe second level, climbing stuff. We have a half-log hide I can just drop in there, too. Other than the four items above, what should I do right away, and what can wait? Would it unduly stress them if I remodel their tank over the next week? What am I overlooking?

First most important thing is temps, humidity, substrate. They DO feel secure with places to hide so I'd also prioritize hidey's for sure. I would probably do enough so their enclosure has the necessary climbing and hiding now and do the other things like second levels or such over time-if it were me.

I know I didn't give a lot of clear cut answers, but hopefully that helps.

[Crabinski]

Great advice from @landlubber, right on the money! All I'll add is to advocate in favor of ordering an Ultratherm UTH for the tank. The best deal is through ReptileBasics.com (link below). As you've probably been made aware reading other posts, Ultratherms are not sold for a specific gallon-size tank so the optimum one to buy is the one that covers the majority of the upper back of the tank without dipping too far below the substrate.

http://www.reptilebasics.com/ultratherm-heat-pads

[hprmom]

Thank you both so much! I'll be checking out the links right away.

Both crabs were active when we picked them up this evening. At home we threw together our 5.5 gallon tank with damp paper towels, a hide and stick, food and both kinds of water for them to hang out while we mixed up substrate in the 10 gallon. As soon as we covered the 5.5 with a towel they both came out again. The more gregarious one in the painted shell roamed like crazy, checking everything out. The other immediately went vertical (up a stick), eventually came down for a bite and a drink, then went back up the stick and stayed there. When we moved them to the 10 gal, we had to move the stick with him on it! The painted guy explored every inch of the tank, made three trips to the shell shop poking around like he was on a mission, I felt so bad that there was nothing good in there. That's a priority for tomorrow, I'll order something online but in the meantime will pick something up local just so he has choices. I'm having trouble sizing them so I know what size shells to get, I'll post pics tomorrow for help. Eventually he crawled into the coconut hut for the night.

The floor of the 10 gal is already crowded, I'll post a pic tomorrow. I'll browse the habitat forum for ideas. Right now they've got 5-6" of coco fiber/eco earth, two water containers, food dish, shell shop, coconut and half-log hides, a piece of cholla (I think) and a stick. The sand in their old set up was completely dry, the coco was just moist, I'm curious to see what they'll do with all this digable substrate (I gotta say, it was really relaxing to mix it up with my hands!). The temp in the house is 73F, and we stuck our mini-UTH on one side so maybe there will be a slightly warmer spot until we get the ultratherm.

Finally--Dad went around to at least three different pet shops looking for all the right stuff, texting me photos so I could veto or approve. There were at least two brands of bedding marked specifically for hermit crabs that were a mix of coco fiber plus other things including calci sand (vetoed!), and he picked up a jug of Top Fin liquid saltwater concentrate before he found the IO (we used the IO). Would like to know if that's usable, for future reference? He has receipts for everything in case of returns.

THANKS again!

[Crabinski]

If the crabs do not have pointy black nails on the tips of their walking legs and if their legs aren't visibly hairy, it's likely that they will dig under to molt shortly. Some crabs will double in size after a molt so don't spend a lot of money on shells online until you see what size they are.

For a quick source of shells to tide you over, if you're near a Jo-Ann, Michaels or Hobby Lobby, pick up a bag of mixed shells for under $10. Look for bags with larger green O-opening turbos, the shape preferred by PPs. You'll also end up with D-opening babylonias (white with brown spots, sort of giraffe-patterned), murex (similar to an old-fashioned three-corned hat) and a nice assortment of flat scallop-like shells that are great for serving fresh foods.

[hprmom]

@Crabinski, thanks for your help! I had a nice long reply written and the server ate it, so here's a (slightly) shorter version...

UTH: The back of the tank is 20" wide. Should I splurge on an ultratherm 6x17 (what's the wattage?), or get a 6x11 (7 watts) and use it in conjunction with the mini (4 watts) we already have? The mini is currently stuck to one short side of the tank (in the below pic, the top where the coco hut is--pic was taken before adding the UTH). It's barely warm to the touch, but after having a towel over the tank all night that side was noticeably warmer. Our shy guy spent all day huddled against the glass before going back to his perch on the stick for the night.


Shells: Hermie changed out of his painted shell! My son was so excited he woke me this morning with the news. He's in a green turbo that we got last week in a 3-pack from Petsmart, the only acceptable shell in the shop. I didn't know to boil the shell, I only rinsed it in dechlorinated water, is that okay? Since he changed, he's been holed up in the coco hut for the last 14 hours, is that typical after a shell change?

I read up on shells in the forum last night and as it happened I had a meeting at a Joann's today, a half mile from a Michael's, so I picked up shells from both stores (yay for 50% off coupons!). Thanks for the excellent tip! We'll pick through and boil them tomorrow, I'm anxious to give them better choices.

Molting: Hermie appears to have nice hairy legs and I can see at last one pointy black toenail. I didn't get as good a look at shy guy. Here's the best pic I have of each:



More pics of crabs/tank here: https://flic.kr/s/aHskt3YZFp

Both crabs are significantly less active today/tonight. Neither approached food or water, and I only know they're alive because I found them in a different position after 12 hours. Is this typical? Where they only so active last night because everything was new? I'm a little paranoid since we lost the pet store crab last week.

Thank you!!

[landlubber]

They are really so darling!

Yes, they ran around and explored everything because it was new (I personally think they're creating a mind map of the tank). They will have some inactivity while destressing, and while its boring to us its important for them, they have a lot to recover from. Adoptions those crabs are usually really hardy, either because they were taken care of properly, or they weren't and any crab that can spend months or years in sub par conditions should be a survivor. I have a good feeling these little guys will do well for you.

[Crabinski]

Great news on the quick shell change -- sometimes they wait forever to make the jump. Also good news that one of the crabs appears to have successfully molted recently.

Re the Ultratherm. I'd opt for the 6x17 (11 watts) and, if needed, keep the small 4 watt unit on the side of the tank. By getting the larger Ultratherm now, you'll be prepared for an eventual tank upgrade as Ultratherms are easy to attach/detach. If I remember correctly, the 6x17 size is available only from BeanFarm.com.

Don't worry about the day-after inactivity: they are merely settling in, acclimating to their new home. As you already know from browsing the forum, pre-owned crabs are less likely to suffer from PPS but that doesn't mean they haven't been stressed a bit by the move. The day I moved my PPs into the 29g from the 10g, they were all over everything for hours but, the day after, three had tunneled under to enjoy the deeper substrate, one spent the next few days between the SW pool and the Ultrathermed back wall...only one remained active and he was busy eating while the others napped !

[hprmom]

Re: the crabs being darling... the first night I was kind of creeped out, they looked like giant ants crawling around with their antennae waving! Hermit crabs were not my choice for pets, but dangit, I'm getting attached to the little guys already. They're kind of cute. Speaking of which, new pics:

Hermie in his new turbo (he switched into this shell from Petsmart before I knew to boil it, hope it's okay!):


A better pic of Herminy (yeah, my son is really original with pet names, LOL. I offered alternatives but Herminy it is!). His legs are definitely not hairy like Hermie's:


Re: shells, I made out like a bandit at Joann's and Michael's, using coupons I got three bags of shells for a grand total of $8, with nearly 50 turbos in the bunch! Not all usable, of course. We picked over them, knocked off sharp edges with a dremel and nail file, and boiled them. New-and-improved shell shop selection:


I ordered the Ultratherm 6x17 last night with priority shipping direct from The Bean Farm (Amazon price worked out to the same cost, but without the priority shipping). It can't get here fast enough. While Hermie has roamed the entire tank, Herminy hasn't left the side with the mini-UTH. He hasn't visited the shell shop and I haven't seen him drink or eat anything except cuttlebone (I put some in a flat shell last night, they took turns sitting on it, and this morning it was completely empty! I put more down tonight and Hermie is sitting on it again!). Herminy did, however, leave a big pile of poop under his favorite stick perch yesterday. I'm hoping that when the Ultratherm gets here and the rest of the tank is up to temp that he will venture to the other side. My husband is wondering if we should set him down near the food/water/shells so he knows that they are there?

The temp in opposite corners of the tank is 70F and 75F, possibly a couple of degrees warmer right up against the mini-UTH where they have taken turns huddling. We keep a towel over all but the front side to help keep the heat in. Considering they came from a less temperature-controlled environment, I'm surprised it matters so much to them!

I'm coming up with more detailed questions in areas like food, water, shells, etc. so I'll take those over to the appropriate sections of the forum. I so appreciate everyone, you've been incredibly helpful to someone who kind of just got thrown into this crazy new world.

[KellyCrabbieLove]

They are mostly late night activity animals so and once they pick a favorite spot they tend to back to it when they are finished running around for the night. Some breeds are more active during the day but PPs are easier to keep by far since they require less fussing over in my opinion.

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[hprmom]

Thanks, KellyCrabbieLove. Right now I'm sitting at my computer in the dark and I can hear one of them knocking about. But of course when I turn on a dim light on the other side of the room for a peek, all commotion ceases! The first two days we had them, they were frequently out and about, that's when I took these pictures. Now they're only coming out when we're not around, or when it's completely dark. Were they out more in the beginning because it was all new? Or might we see them more once they have acclimated?

Last question (for now)--I've seen Hermie at the food and freshwater dishes, but I never see Herminy near water, and as far as I know he hasn't eaten anything but crushed cuttlebone (both crabs are eating cuttlebone like they've never seen it before, is it possible to get too much of a good thing?). In fact since we put them in the 10gal, Herminy has never been to the half of the tank that holds both water sources and the shell shop. I've never seen either of them near the saltwater, either. Anything to worry about?

THANKS!

[landlubber]

Not really. They are really very sneaky. One thing we don't have to worry about with these guys is them under/over eating or drinking. If there is food and water accessible, they will use it as needed without any help from us.

[KellyCrabbieLove]

I love how noisy they are. I can hear from upstairs in my house them clanking around downstairs in their tank. It keeps my mother in law awake when she spends the weekend here visiting they are so noisy. It let's me know they love to explore their home.

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[hprmom]

Do you recommend any type of night light for viewing? I'll go check out the post on lighting next. I'm hesitant because after more research I wonder if the night-heat lamp we used with the science class crab contributed to his demise (temp was good, but possibly not enough air flow in 5.5gal).

Still awaiting the ultratherm, tracking says it's due for delivery today. Night before last I decided to wrap the lid (which is 1/3 mesh, 2/3 vented plastic) with plastic wrap. The humidity climbed almost immediately and has been holding steady. The temp went up 2-3 degrees, now holding between 74-77F; when I removed the lid the next day, the air was noticeably warmer and the tank was getting that "nice" humid smell. When we came home late afternoon, the temp had gone up to 78 and we found both crabs hanging out on top of the half-log hide, yay! Herminy (who for no apparent reason I've begun thinking of as a "she", must be the eyes!) immediately ran away when she saw us, but a few minutes later came back and practically shoved Hermie out of her spot, lol.

After just a few days, I've also noticed a trend in their eating: they're definitely after protein and calcium. Not so much fruit/veg, but maybe I haven't offered the right kind. I also realized that anything I put in the tank intended as a dry, crunchy snack (dried coconut, freeze dried strawberry, even crushed sunflower seeds) quickly becomes a moist, chewy snack in their humid environment!

When we remove the lid for misting/feeding, the humidity drops almost instantly below 75, and the temp goes down, too. The gauges are in the upper corners of the tank, so I'm hoping it's warmer/wetter on the ground (only 6" down) so they don't experience some kind of shock every time this happens. It's unavoidable, does it bother them much?

[landlubber]

I am not an expert on heating or lighting, so I'll let someone else field that question.

Hermits will eat what they are nutritionally deficient in and avoid foods they recently received the same nutrition from, so obviously their previous diet was lacking in these areas, so I wouldn't be surprised if your observation about their eating was right on the money.

Crabs use heat and humidity to help regulate their body systems, this is why we shoot for constant temps and humidity. However, life makes it impossible for us to create a constantly perfect microcosm for them despite our best efforts. But let us not forget that in the wild there are changes, a drop in temps before a storm, lowered humidity from a warm front-their natural environment is not perfect either. I think the best we can do is duplicate their habitat as much as possible, and a little bit of change comes with that too. I like to think it's good to get some air circulation in there.