Molter killing other molters

[Menders]

All 3 of 4 of my crabs had been down for months. They were molting. Some were doing back to back molting. All had molted at least 2 times but one and he had gone down for his second molt. He was visible from the bottom of the tank, so I got to see him shed his exo and eat it. The crab that was not under was digging all over the place for weeks. Everything seemed okay. Until I noticed that the molter that had been visible at the bottom had come up. But he was nowhere to be found. Things started getting suspicious when I noticed he had gone back under in the area where the other two had buried to molt. They were the two smallest of the group and although they can take several months to molt regardless of size, they had been under for a extremely long amount of time. Upon closer inspection, I saw the tip of a shell and decided to pick it up. I know that you should never dig up a molter and I would never do that. A few shells had been buried for whatever reason, so I was removing them to clean them. I picked the shell up and it was filled with sand. I saw what looked like a leg on the sand where it had been and brushed the sand back to find a body. The abdomen was detached so I checked the shell to see of it was an exo and someone was inside. The shell was empty. I picked up the body and it didn't have a smell and looked new. I assumed it was an exo and that the crab must be near by. I broke one of the exo legs to make sure it was hollow. Thats when I smelled the smell of death. It appears that it was indeed a body and a fresh one. It was right by were I found the newly molted crab who had gone back down. It appears that he happened upon a molter and killed it I guess. I noticed another leg. It did not belong to the other body. A little further down was the shell of my smallest. Apparently two of my crabs tried to molt very close to each other. One of two things happened, my larger newly molted crab found them while digging for fun, and ate them or the topside crab that had been digging for fun did it. Is this normal behavior? All of my tat specks are on point. I continued to offer a variety of fresh foods and Hermie's Kitchen foods. Why would one or both of my crabs eat the others. I am very discouraged. I don't know what I did wrong. Everyone was doing great, molting, eating, and happy. So I'm not sure why this happened. I knew that the shells and bodies I found were from the other two molters. So, either the newly molted crab ate them upon stumbling upon them while digging or the crab that just went under did it because he had been digging all over the place. He is down again, I guess to now gone down to molt even though he molted a few weeks ago. Has this happened to anyone else? I am vigilant about keeping the conditions on spot and proper food. I just don't understand what I did wrong. The newly molted crab hasn't touched the food in the tank. But I guess if he ate the others he might be full for a while.


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[Vanellope]

I'm terrified that this is exactly what is happening in my tank. My 2 smallest (little bitty things) went down within a few days of getting them (one after 2 days, the other 4 or 5) and then my normally chill small-ish crab (Cowboy) began frantically digging and even getting aggressive toward the bigger ones on the surface. Figured he just had PMS (pre-molt syndrome) and needed to molt and get it out of his system (he hasn't yet molted since I got him). The babies went under over a month ago. Cowboy has been digging all over the place underground for weeks now. Hasn't molted and hasn't surfaced. I'm afraid he's been dining on the babies. I'll be anxious to see how your situation plays out. I'm sorry for your loss. I know how bad I'll feel if it turns out to be my truth, also.

Hoomans roole

[Menders]

I'm terrified that this is exactly what is happening in my tank. My 2 smallest (little bitty things) went down within a few days of getting them (one after 2 days, the other 4 or 5) and then my normally chill small-ish crab (Cowboy) began frantically digging and even getting aggressive toward the bigger ones on the surface. Figured he just had PMS (pre-molt syndrome) and needed to molt and get it out of his system (he hasn't yet molted since I got him). The babies went under over a month ago. Cowboy has been digging all over the place underground for weeks now. Hasn't molted and hasn't surfaced. I'm afraid he's been dining on the babies. I'll be anxious to see how your situation plays out. I'm sorry for your loss. I know how bad I'll feel if it turns out to be my truth, also.

Hoomans roole

If your little ones went down a few days after getting them, then they are likely distressing. There is a possibility they are molting. But it is not unusual for them to go under after getting put into a stable crabitat. They may also be coming up while you are sleeping. From what I understand, this is a very rare occurrence unless you have over crowding. It is just bad luck. I worried about this a few months ago when I noticed the one topside digging everywhere. I knew he was close to where the others had buried. I also wonder if he collapsed their tunnels or caves by digging too close. And then the other big guy found them dead and ate them. I have no idea how it went down. I guess all we can do is provide them with proper conditions, proper nutrition, and plenty of tat space ( it wasn't from over crowding. I have a 30 gal long with 1 tiny 3 small. Now the newly molted is a medium and the the one under is small/medium.). I forget that they are scavengers and that they are wild creatures. Newly molted crabs smell delicious to ther crabs. They are going to do things that we don't understand. I just feel responsible. I don't know what I could have done differently. After finding the body , leg and shells, I still held out hope that it was an exo, maybe I was wrong and one day one of them will resurface. But I did a pretty through cleaning and combing of the sand after my discoveries. So it is not likely. My daughters were heart broken. My oldest likes to feed them. She knows proper care and feeds them the Hermie's Kitchen items and fresh foods. She kept asking if it was her fault. If she had not given them enough food. But I always check to make sure and she does a great job. Their tat is in my studio. So, I see them everyday while I am working and printing. She wanted to know if I would consider getting another crab. At this point, two smalls that may be participating in canibalistic behavior seem like enough for a my30 gal tank If we got another, I wouldn't do the pet store. They are all always on the brink of death and losing them to PPS is just to much. I have been wanting to adopt an established crab. But there just are not any up for adoption near where I live.


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[wodesorel]

There is always a chance that they passed from other reasons and the smells drew the other crabs in after the fact. Without having actually seen it happen, it can't be known for sure. While back to back molting can be completely normal, it can also signal that something is wrong that they're trying to fix. It takes a lot out of them, and sometimes they just don't have the reserves to pull it off.

Are you offering enough proteins? Seafood, insects, meat, poultry, fish? Calcium sources like cuttlebone, crushed coral, reptile calcium, (other species of) crab exo?

Have you given the Care Guide a readthrough again just to make sure nothing was overlooked while setting things up? If you wanted to do a help template we would be happy to look it over and see if something is off that could make them more likely to be cannibalistic. Sometimes it helps to have another set of eyes to see if something isn't quite right.

[Menders]

There is always a chance that they passed from other reasons and the smells drew the other crabs in after the fact. Without having actually seen it happen, it can't be known for sure. While back to back molting can be completely normal, it can also signal that something is wrong that they're trying to fix. It takes a lot out of them, and sometimes they just don't have the reserves to pull it off.

Are you offering enough proteins? Seafood, insects, meat, poultry, fish? Calcium sources like cuttlebone, crushed coral, reptile calcium, (other species of) crab exo?

Have you given the Care Guide a readthrough again just to make sure nothing was overlooked while setting things up? If you wanted to do a help template we would be happy to look it over and see if something is off that could make them more likely to be cannibalistic. Sometimes it helps to have another set of eyes to see if something isn't quite right.

Yes, I say back to back molting, but there are a couple of months separating the molts. I offer fresh fruits and veg, cuttle bone is always available in multiple places through out the crabitat, calcium, Hermit Crab patch mixes, Hermie's kitchen (duck, pork, saquid, coconut, etc.), shrimp, Flukers insect mix, Flukers grasshoppers, honey, eggs, eggshells, coral, etc. any help is appreciated! Thank you!



1. What kind of substrate is used in your tank and how deep is it?
Play sand -sand castle consistency 9 inches

2. Do you have gauges in the tank to measure temperature and humidity? If so, where are they located and what temperature and humidity do they usually read?
Yes- digital that has been calibrated
Temp 80-86
Humidity 88-90+

3. Is a heat source used in the tank? If so, what?
UTH on back of tank above the sub
Insulated

4. What types of water are available (fresh or salt) and how is the water treated (what brands of dechlorinator or salt mix and what ratio is used to mix it)?
Both- recommended brands on HCA site

5. What kinds of food do you feed and how often is it replaced? Fresh fruit and veg
Hermies Kitchen and Hermit Crab Patch
Dried Flukers insects and shrimp varieties all on safe list
Honey
Proteins
Cuttle bone, etc.
Replaced daily if it is fresh
Replaces every couple of days if dried

6. How long have you had the crab and what species is it, if known?
PP almost a year


7. Has your crab molted, and how long ago did it happen? 3 had molted 3 times were on their 4th molt -1 just finished second molt.

8. What type of housing are the crabs kept in, what size is it and what kind of lid is on the housing? 30 gal tank with glass lid

9. How many crabs are in the tank and about how large are they?
There were 4 - 1tiny/small, 2 small, 1 small/medium after this lat molt.
10. How many extra shells are usually kept in the tank, if any?
25+ all preferred PP shells no painted

11. Have there been any fumes or chemicals near the crabitat recently?
No

12. How often do you clean the tank and how?
Surface clean removing all old buried food and poop

13. Are sponges used in the water dish? If so, how are they cleaned?
No

14. Has anything new been added to your crabitat recently?
No

15. Is there any other information you would like to share that might be helpful (anything that is regularly part of your crab care, playtime, bathing, etc.)?
No bathing
Water changes are regular
Hands off crabbing
Humidity 88-90+
My sand stays sandcastle consistency at all times
No flooding, no bacterial blooms, no chemnical smells coming from tank.
Extra Shells are boiled periodically to clean according to HCA instructions

16. Please describe the emergency situation in detail.
Two crabs molting found dead and eaten where they dug down about 3 months ago.






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[CrabbyMommy2017]

I am worried that this is what's going on in my tank too. I'm posting a reply here so that I can keep up with this thread.