Really mean crabby!

Amanda Melton · Post by **Amanda Melton** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:01 pm

Hey guys, I need some advice. Everything has been well and good with my crabs so far, until a few hours ago. I have 3 PPs and 1 E.

The E (Pinchy) has all of a sudden become a major jerk. He's gone psycho - he's super fidgety around the tank, moving much quicker than normal. He's poking at my other 3 even though they are twice his size if not more. He's doing this kind of 'pounce' thing, where another crab is walking in his vicinity and he just leaps towards them for no reason. All the other crabs seem to freak out and quickly go the other direction. I don't understand what's going on. They have fresh food, plenty of room, plenty of shells. There's no chirping, thank god, but he's being a major jerk. Since we've only had this tank going for 3 months or so, we don't have an ISO tank yet otherwise I'd put him in there.

Any advice?

jayjay · Post by **jayjay** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:43 pm

Are you providing a protein rich diet? Sometimes, lack of animal protein can cause aggression. He could also be stressed about not having a species buddy. Es and PPs usually get along fine, but its advised to have at least two of each species. Can you tell us a little more about your setup? i.e. Substrate type/depth, diet, tank size, etc.

That way it will be easier to eliminate any environmental triggers.

CrabbyMom33 · Post by **CrabbyMom33** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:03 pm

My thoughts are along the same lines - make sure you are feeding plenty of protein, make sure there are enough shells in the E's size, and if possible, get him a buddy. Given that he is a little on the aggressive size, I'd aim for a buddy that is the same size or larger.

Amanda Melton · Post by **Amanda Melton** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:32 pm

I've got a 10 gallon tank with sand (about 2 and a half inches) and heat lamp. We have second and third stories as well as plastic vines around the top so there's plenty of places to hide and climb. Normally Pinchy is up in the vines or hanging off the top grating on the tank (it's covered with a giant ziploc bag instead of saran wrap to help keep the humidity up) but lately he hasn't been up there so much. My two bigger crabs (Clark and Gertrude) recently ventured up into the vines so I thought maybe he felt like his territory was threatened?

Both spring and salt water, as per normal. Twice daily misting as well.

Fresh diet only. Up until a couple weeks ago we were feeding them the pellets from the pet store. Then amongst my plethora of research I've done online I found out about the preservatives and whatnot, so I threw all that crap out. Here's what they've been getting so far (I give them 5 different things each day, and I rotate them so they have variety, and always a protein every day)...

Apple
Plum
Asparagus
Cantelope
Corn
Strawberries
Peanut Butter
Hard Boiled Egg
Eggshell
Cooked chicken
black olive
apricot
peanuts
carrot
broccoli
rolled oats
raisins
cucumber
red/yellow bell peppers
and dehydrated krill (as a treat once a week)

I have noticed a big change in them since we switched to fresh food. They've been WAY more active and go right for the food now, where they didn't before. They've even taken to moving the food around the tank occasionally, which is cute to watch. Obviously they're much more healthy now. And they didn't climb before I switched the food. Go figure.

They have plenty of shells in all sizes. I bought a bunch of them from seashellcity.com a while back, so I'm sure that's not the problem. Also, when there are shell fights, aren't they always for similar-sized or slightly bigger shells? Pinchy doesn't seem to care, he's aggressive towards everyone in the tank, whether they are way smaller or 3xs bigger. I know I'm kinda new at this, but that doesn't sound like a shell fight to me.

After my original post we decided to take him out of the tank for a while. We let him run around on the carpet and he went nuts. I have NEVER seen him move so fast. And normally he's pretty skiddish when you pick him up, but he was like Charlie Sheen (Only one gear - GO). Legs flailing and everything. We figured maybe he would get whatever it was out of his system, but after a half hour of chasing him around the livingroom and kitchen we decided to put him in a plastic tub. Gave him water and some egg just in case he was protein deficient (a precaution) but he wasn't interested in the least bit. I'm willing to keep him in there a couple more hours, so he can cool down, but I don't want to leave him in there overnight. I guess we'll put him back in the tank and play the watch game.

Amanda Melton · Post by **Amanda Melton** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:50 pm

Here's a pic of my tank so you guys can see...

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

That's Einstein up on the soap dish.

MudCrabDude · Post by **MudCrabDude** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:00 pm

Frankly, with 4 crabs in a 10 gallon, that might be a little overcrowded, but that's my personal standard, through my own experience (my personal experience is 2 crabs per 10 gallon any size - under jumbo - crab).

Also, I've felt that C. compressus tend to be pretty more outgoing, aggressive, defensive, pinchy, and territorial than C. clypeatus. Sounds like your compressus is just being "normal" and territorial. Normally, I wouldn't worry if the other crabs are also compressus in a much larger tank setup, however, in this case there indeed is a little bit cause for alarm since the other crabs in the tank are a different species that are generally (but not all) a bit more subdued than compressus, at least in my past experience.

I would at least provide a little more protein in their diet, such as live crickets (serve alive, remove all the legs - store bought crickets, not wild caught crickets to avoid the chances of exposure to pesticides or naturally occurring toxins) live pillbugs, fresh chopped shrimp, fresh clam or snail meat, a piece of raw pork, chicken, or beef, or maybe some pieces of fresh fish or even a piece of raw or lightly steamed meat from the limb of a live Maryland blue crab.

I would seriously consider upgrading to a bigger tank in the future as well.

Amanda Melton · Post by **Amanda Melton** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:30 pm

Raw chicken, pork or beef? I thought it had to be cooked? I always see posts about cooking meat (no spices, of course)... It seems like a silly question seeing as they would eat decaying animals in the wild, but I just want to make sure raw is ok seeing as it's somewhat processed meat.

And do you think the tank is really crowded? We've had them in there for 3 months and never had a single problem until now. The 3 PPs even molted (they buried just a couple days after we got them, no doubt because they were in gravel at the pet store) and came out just fine, no problems. I would think if Pinchy was going to show dominance or act out he would have done it when the other guys were freshly shed. When the bigger two had emerged they were still quite pale.

samurai_crab · Post by **samurai_crab** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:26 am

Raw is completely fine for them, around here the only warning about raw is the fact that, well, you have raw meat sitting in a a nice 75-80 degree humid enclosure. Perfect breeding ground for any bacteria that may be on the meat. Now as long as you were careful to throw out the old meat, boil any food shells you may keep it on and wash your hands after using the crab tank, it wouldn't be a problem. Most crabbers on here would only advocate cooking the meat for our safety I believe.

MudCrabDude · Post by **MudCrabDude** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:35 am

Amanda Melton wrote:Raw chicken, pork or beef? I thought it had to be cooked? I always see posts about cooking meat (no spices, of course)... It seems like a silly question seeing as they would eat decaying animals in the wild, but I just want to make sure raw is ok seeing as it's somewhat processed meat.

And do you think the tank is really crowded? We've had them in there for 3 months and never had a single problem until now. The 3 PPs even molted (they buried just a couple days after we got them, no doubt because they were in gravel at the pet store) and came out just fine, no problems. I would think if Pinchy was going to show dominance or act out he would have done it when the other guys were freshly shed. When the bigger two had emerged they were still quite pale.

Ideally I would feed them raw myself. You can feed them beef, chicken, pork - organ meats or the lean portions. However, I would generally monitor any raw meat food item I introduce into the tank to make sure they don't get into a position where it may get dragged into a part of a tank to just sit and rot unseen.

I would make sure to dispose of any uneaten meat within a day, if not within 12 hours. For the most part, if the crabs are interested in meat, they will eat it immediately or at least an hour upon introduction - if a meat becomes ignored by, say the 8th hour, I generally would dispose of it.

Well, upon personal experience, in terms of tank space, I've had just two small-medium C. clypeatus engage in a shell fight in the past 2 years (resulting in the eventual death of one) in just a 10 gallon with about 4 inches of substrate. Some crabbers in the past, however, were able to keep more crabs in the same space for a longer period of time.

So it may also come down to just plain luck in finding out the crabs' own personalities and ability to cope with captivity and each other - if one is very lucky, one may have completely compatible crabs live for a very long time in that limited space. And to be perfectly honest, 3 months really is not that too long of a time - it may be that they are doing fine now, but in a few more months things may turn out differently.

Hopefully, your crabs in the long run will end up together peacefully, but for what I am seeing here, Pinchy seems like he may turn out like my own late crab, Bully, and end up mauling another crab in the process.

Or, in a few months of increased fresh protein sources, he may be just being "territorial" and all this show of "aggression" may just be all for show and not cause any real damage (especially with more meat to eat available). My current large queen crab, Carryl, always shoves Fenner around, but for the past 3+ years, for the most part, it was all just "for show" and no real damage has yet to appear from her "aggression" - thanks to a healthy dose of fresh proteins in her diet, as well as lots of available shells to wear in a relatively spacious tank for now.

For now, I would consider adding a bit more variety to the meat your giving, preferably fresh. Here are some ideas:

Live crickets (store bought, not wild caught to avoid exposure to pesticides or naturally occurring toxins) - de-legged or freshly killed by crushing their heads

Live pillbugs (make sure from a clean source not exposed to pesticides or roadside pollution)

Fresh chopped shrimp
Fresh crab meat (ex. Maryland blue crab legs or claws)
Fresh silversides
Fresh krill
Fresh brine shrimp
Bloodworms
Live or freshly killed mealworms
Defrosted Pinky mice or rats
Organ meats
Lean meats
Fresh salmon bits
Fresh clams
Fresh oysters
Fresh snail meat

Post by **wodesorel** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:34 am

I'm wondering if he's getting ready to molt but there isn't enough sand for him to dig deep enough. Es are tunnelers - crazy little mole-crab tunnelers! He might be wanting to get into the mood with turning the tank into swiss cheese, but can't. I know they're small crabs, but for any sized Es I'd never recommend anything other than at least 6 inches of substrate so they can do their thing.

Amanda Melton · Post by **Amanda Melton** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:55 pm

Happy to announce Pinchy has stopped his craziness.

We re-did the tat completely. Added more sand (which he tore up last night and tunneled like a madman, but didn't bury).

They were getting plenty of protein to begin with, but I added another food shell on the other side of the tank. I put all the fruits/veggies in one dish, and all the proteins in the other. I figure this way they're not all crowded around one of them. Seems to work so far.

Also, I noticed that Gertrude finally went over the edge about his behavior and shoved him around quite a bit.

Ever since all this, he's stopped. (Other than tearing the tank apart but that's normal) lol. I'm not sure what stopped him, but one of these worked.