Is This Weird?

[soilentgringa]

Been waiting for a response to the info I provided at your request. (-:

19 crabs in a 40 gallon tank is a little overcrowded. If 12 of them are down, you are at a serious risk for molt attacks and cannibalization.
Have you rescued the naked crab yet? More than one person has explained that a naked crab is an emergency.
If you dig in a grid pattern and go down vertically and use a spoon to lift the sub up and move it, if you did come across a molting crab you are less likely to cause any damage to it. You can then ISO the molting crab.
I doubt that the naked crab got very far from where it went under, especially if it's tunnel was collapsed.
Also, mods, admins, and tech support spend hours of time every day voluntarily to assist people, not only on this site but the FB pages as well. If we are not able to answer a question immediately it is probably because we are driving (I live in the DFW metroplex-it can take 2 hours to get from Dallas to FW in traffic AND the state fair is going on) taking care of our families or other pets, in school, at our jobs, etc.

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[wodesorel]

Oh, a nekkie crab can travel. I've found my Es buried on the opposite side of the tank from their ditched shell. Don't let a uncovered bum fool 'ya - they're still wicked fast, but they're also extremely prone to fatal injury since a little bump or scrape can burst internal organs.

How small is small? If we're talking 19 crabs whose shells could fit on a Quarter you should be fine until they start growing. However, if they're bigger than that they'll start getting a little territorial and a little more adventurous when underground. It could be that your naked guy got chased out of a shell rather than ditched it. The more crabs you have in a small space the more likely they are to cause trouble with each other. They're colony animals, but they are completely opportunistic and they will attack their comrades to get a leg up in life. (For a shell, for a meal, etc.) It can definitely work to have a lot in what would be considered an undersized tank, but the risk goes sky high by doing so. And I'm speaking from personal experience with 60 large hermits in a 135 gallon. I do it, but I don't recommend it. It's too much of a constant worry. I also would only ever endorse doing so with Purple Pinchers - the other species cannot handle being crowded and will turn on each other. Even some PPs can't handle it.

With your situation I really do think it comes back to that judgement call. Risk the lives of 12 for the life of 1. Although the risk is tiny IF you iso them all immediately and keep them there until they are eating and drinking normally. Rushing them back to the company of others can get them attacked and killed. Even if they look okay when dug up they could be still at a weakened point of the molting process and become an easy meal for the others. I have moved many crabs over the years and never had one die, but it's a pain and it takes having a good sized molting iso to keep them separated - sometimes even from each other.

[Crab_Coalition]

Oh, a nekkie crab can travel. I've found my Es buried on the opposite side of the tank from their ditched shell. Don't let a uncovered bum fool 'ya - they're still wicked fast, but they're also extremely prone to fatal injury since a little bump or scrape can burst internal organs.

How small is small? If we're talking 19 crabs whose shells could fit on a Quarter you should be fine until they start growing. However, if they're bigger than that they'll start getting a little territorial and a little more adventurous when underground. It could be that your naked guy got chased out of a shell rather than ditched it. The more crabs you have in a small space the more likely they are to cause trouble with each other. They're colony animals, but they are completely opportunistic and they will attack their comrades to get a leg up in life. (For a shell, for a meal, etc.) It can definitely work to have a lot in what would be considered an undersized tank, but the risk goes sky high by doing so. And I'm speaking from personal experience with 60 large hermits in a 135 gallon. I do it, but I don't recommend it. It's too much of a constant worry. I also would only ever endorse doing so with Purple Pinchers - the other species cannot handle being crowded and will turn on each other. Even some PPs can't handle it.

With your situation I really do think it comes back to that judgement call. Risk the lives of 12 for the life of 1. Although the risk is tiny IF you iso them all immediately and keep them there until they are eating and drinking normally. Rushing them back to the company of others can get them attacked and killed. Even if they look okay when dug up they could be still at a weakened point of the molting process and become an easy meal for the others. I have moved many crabs over the years and never had one die, but it's a pain and it takes having a good sized molting iso to keep them separated - sometimes even from each other.

You and I are exactly alike! What you don't recommend is also what I like too and i put in the time to take care of them. Also have a empty 20 gallon on standby. Although I know many will oppose this, I just can't see having a 40 luxury gallon tank with only 4 crabs in it. It doesn't compute to me and they don't display enough energy to require that much space on a daily basis but I understand the applied dynamics. That's exactly what I mean? My crabs are small...most of them so a 40 gallon is not overcrowded...to me. It has plenty of space especially with 10 inches of substrate which provides a vast amount of spacing below. I actually answered these but don't know if people did not read the thread but the dirt is perfect, firm but moist like wet sand and the crab is not in the immediate area because the tunnel runs deep so you definitely understand it when you said the crab is likely not in the area. My question is if the tunnel collapsed and he was escaping from danger or an attack, why would the crab run back into the hole when the surface has plenty of space and there are plenty of shells available? Instinctively it does not add up or make sense in the animal word as they would get out of there and keep going even if they have to hide and I didn't get that impression. The crabs I have love it down there. I have crabs that dig into the dirt during the day, pop out for food and a jog (or walk), then disappear into another hole and this seemed to be something like that. The crab probably already has a shell since a majority of their activity takes place around 2 am...I just happened to catch it. I also caught what looked like 2 crabs making out or having sex. At first I thought it was an attack so I turned the lights on and saw a crab on its back and the other crab rubbing on its under section, no claws, no struggle and they kept at it even when I opened the tank. LOL Had to separate them.
Anyway, not trying to ruffle any feathers or be defensive but wanted to say clearly what happened and wanted to get candid opinions so thank you.

My goal is to have a hermit colony of 150 crabs in a 200 gallon tank with 16 inches of substrate then move those that grow big into another tank for spacing but my personal liking is to have a tank with perfect climatic conditions, lots of activity and lots of crabs, half up, half down or all up and all down. (-:
Mostly PPs but also a few E's, Violets, and maybe 1-2 Strawberries bit Strawberries definitely need their own space and a much hotter, saltier climate so may thing twice about that one. LOL

[Crab_Coalition]

Oh, a nekkie crab can travel. I've found my Es buried on the opposite side of the tank from their ditched shell. Don't let a uncovered bum fool 'ya - they're still wicked fast, but they're also extremely prone to fatal injury since a little bump or scrape can burst internal organs.

How small is small? If we're talking 19 crabs whose shells could fit on a Quarter you should be fine until they start growing. However, if they're bigger than that they'll start getting a little territorial and a little more adventurous when underground. It could be that your naked guy got chased out of a shell rather than ditched it. The more crabs you have in a small space the more likely they are to cause trouble with each other. They're colony animals, but they are completely opportunistic and they will attack their comrades to get a leg up in life. (For a shell, for a meal, etc.) It can definitely work to have a lot in what would be considered an undersized tank, but the risk goes sky high by doing so. And I'm speaking from personal experience with 60 large hermits in a 135 gallon. I do it, but I don't recommend it. It's too much of a constant worry. I also would only ever endorse doing so with Purple Pinchers - the other species cannot handle being crowded and will turn on each other. Even some PPs can't handle it.

With your situation I really do think it comes back to that judgement call. Risk the lives of 12 for the life of 1. Although the risk is tiny IF you iso them all immediately and keep them there until they are eating and drinking normally. Rushing them back to the company of others can get them attacked and killed. Even if they look okay when dug up they could be still at a weakened point of the molting process and become an easy meal for the others. I have moved many crabs over the years and never had one die, but it's a pain and it takes having a good sized molting iso to keep them separated - sometimes even from each other.

Hi, was wondering what you thought of my last message. i guess it rubbed everybody else the wrong way a bit which was;t my intention but just being honest and also appreciate honest feedback...thank you. I know we are at the solution point with my last report but wanted to get your response specifically since I think we are along the same line of thinking regarding crab population.

[CallaLily]

I don't think you've rubbed anyone the wrong way, Crab_Coalition. I know we're all on here as often as we can be to try to respond to posts and questions. We all do have real lives - families, jobs, pets, homes, etc that take up our time too. I myself have been busier than usual due to having 3 more children here unexpectedly these last 4ish days. Wodesorel's computer time is limited more than normally for the time being too because of her concussion. I'm sure she'll get back to you as soon as she can.

To dig or not is up to you. Personally, I would look for the naked crab and try to get him reshelled. You can carefully dig down on one side to the bottom, then from there gently work your way across the tank from the side of the substrate, using your hands to gently remove a layer of substrate at a time. This way you can usually notice their molting caves/tunnels before doing much damage - as long as your substrate is still properly moistened throughout. Have individual ISO containers on hand for any crabs that are under. These can be as simple as Tupperware containers with a few air holes punched in the lid.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

[Crab_Coalition]

I don't think you've rubbed anyone the wrong way, Crab_Coalition. I know we're all on here as often as we can be to try to respond to posts and questions. We all do have real lives - families, jobs, pets, homes, etc that take up our time too. I myself have been busier than usual due to having 3 more children here unexpectedly these last 4ish days. Wodesorel's computer time is limited more than normally for the time being too because of her concussion. I'm sure she'll get back to you as soon as she can.

To dig or not is up to you. Personally, I would look for the naked crab and try to get him reshelled. You can carefully dig down on one side to the bottom, then from there gently work your way across the tank from the side of the substrate, using your hands to gently remove a layer of substrate at a time. This way you can usually notice their molting caves/tunnels before doing much damage - as long as your substrate is still properly moistened throughout. Have individual ISO containers on hand for any crabs that are under. These can be as simple as Tupperware containers with a few air holes punched in the lid.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Hi and thank you for the response and well wishes to those recovering from injuries and well wishes for those burdened with heavy schedules...I am among you in that regards but the advantage I have is I have a home office so don't have to commute all the time.

I actually tried shaving off layers but the crab is not in the immediate area and I went as far as I could without compromising the other crabs.

Your ISO suggestion raises another question which I learned from reading the reports on this forum and that is if I do ISO the crabs in small containers which would be around 12 of them then how do I go about keep all 12 containers under the right humidity levels which a majority says should be 85-90+? The normal humidity without any heat where I live in California is 80 which in my opinion I think is suitable because I have seen them live in much less for a longer period of time and even in lower temperatures like 70-75 but I am a novice so I don't want to get too far ahead of myself and pretend to be an expert in a field that I am not. My questions just come from concern for the crabs as a whole and are not meant to be combative in nature but to give me a clearer understanding.

I think I know the answer to this which would be that it's my call because there is no easy way to do it but I think you can tell I am torn. (-:

One of the great things I saw about these crabs is there was a medium crab in the food bowl and a smaller crab wanted to get in but had to wait. Within a minute of seeing the smaller crab waiting the larger crab left the bowl, allowing the smaller crab to climb in. I thought that was so intelligent and insightful to see smaller creatures working together in that capacity and I have seen more acts of awareness for a fellow crab in the past as well. Juts thought I would share that. (-: Gives me hope for humanity.

[CallaLily]

For Purple Pinchers safe temp range is 75-85F. Humidity should be above 70%, preferably closer to 80%. If you were to dig and have 12 crabs ISO'd like this, once you put the tank back together you could simply place them, in the ISO containers, inside the main crabitat to keep conditions right if they aren't outside of the tank. If they are within range in your house then you wouldn't need to worry, just monitor temp and humidity closely.

If you have exotic species, they may require slightly different conditions.

[Crab_Coalition]

For Purple Pinchers safe temp range is 75-85F. Humidity should be above 70%, preferably closer to 80%. If you were to dig and have 12 crabs ISO'd like this, once you put the tank back together you could simply place them, in the ISO containers, inside the main crabitat to keep conditions right if they aren't outside of the tank. If they are within range in your house then you wouldn't need to worry, just monitor temp and humidity closely.

If you have exotic species, they may require slightly different conditions.

All of it sounds great and I appreciate the insight.