Eco Earth V's Sand

philingroovie · Post by **philingroovie** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:41 am

People keep talking about dull shells. I had a molter come up with a dull shell and i have no EE in tank. Do you think they might paint some kind of clear coat on them?

suebee · Post by **suebee** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:23 am

I believe zoomed is the one that is working on getting the prob. fixed however im hopeing t rex also knows of the problem. Let us know what you find out.

Phil, some places do put a clear coat of paint on shells but if you boil the shells that usually will come off. My shells from the eco earth were very dull like they had never been polished. Almost like a white film.

sugarselections · Post by **sugarselections** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:28 pm

I spoke to Zoo Med (makers of Eco Earth bricks and the Hermit Crab Soil disks) and also emailed with them and they've never heard of any of this. They have no plans to change the packaging on Eco Earth to exclude/change it's use for hermit crabs.

suebee · Post by **suebee** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:46 pm

Soon i will post emails showing different, i cant at this time. The person you spoke to may not of heard but the heads of the company have.

What it comes down to is making your own decision. I know two of you here that are doing fine with all EE. I do however know of 12 for sure that had problems that were fixed when they want back to mostly sand or just sand.

I say just use your head. Read all you can and consider what the conditions are in the wild.

Dog Lips · Post by **Dog Lips** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:08 pm

Wow, I had no idea that EE was a menace to molters? I guess that explains why my E died during molting (he had shed all his skin and had eaten mist of his Exo, but I guess he was just down too long and the EE did something to his soft skin...

Tremors · Post by **Tremors** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:01 pm

I can't prove that EE is completely safe for molters, but I don't think we can assume that every bad molt in EE is because of the EE.

I've had both good and bad molts in both straight EE and straight sand. I think the 5:1 mix is a healthy substrate for crabs, but not necessarily the only good one. Personally, I do prefer a mix of mostly sand with a little EE instead of straight EE (or straight sand), because it seems to be easier for the crabs to dig and molt in.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:40 pm

Doglips,
It does seem that Es have the most issue with it, and PP's have the least. I had two Es that died in a way similar to what you described. Has anyone noticed that Es often leave their shells at some point during molting? I think this is when the EE really has a chance to injure them, by both compacting and getting stuck in the shell and the biodegrading issue.

sugarselections · Post by **sugarselections** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:48 pm

I just had one of my Ecuadorians leave me a molting window and he didn't leave his shell during the process.

Personally, I don't believe that coco fiber substrate has anything to do with Ecuadorians having poor molts. If so, why have my Ecuadorians been molting so perfectly for over two years in 100% coco fiber? I think the problem other people are having with molting Ecuadorians may go deeper than substrate type. It seems like people may just be grasping at the easy answer without look for the correct answer to their problems.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:31 pm

Sugar,
Please share what you think the issue might be I would really like to know so I can avoid the tragedy in the future. I do have an E who has survived two molts without issue. It was only the two that dug down on the 100% EE area that died. The surviving E has selected the sand side on both molts. It was also not at the same time, it was several months apart. Protein and other recommended foods are offered fresh or dried every day. I don't mean this to sound snarky at all, your posts hints at knowing some other reasons. I just want to know they might be.

sugarselections · Post by **sugarselections** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:32 am

I never implied I knew the answer. Since I'm not having trouble with my Ecuadorians, how would I be in any position to figure out why other people's crabs are dying? I just stated that it makes no sense to blame coco fiber for the molting failures when me and other people are having Ecuadorians molt successfully in coco fiber.

suebee · Post by **suebee** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:49 am

compressus have not been the only species of crabs having problems unfortunately. When ever I lose a crab I feel a need to try to pinpoint why. I try to see if i can make any changes to insure the safety of the other crabs. The last crab i lost was due to a shell spiral collapse. Right away I checked all my shells and toss any that were missing the spiral on the inside. I never lost a molter till i switched to mainly EE and then when i started to lose them i switched back to almost all sand and all has been well with my molters again. I believe in my case it was the EE. Im sure its not the case for everyone. I just wanted to put the info out there for consideration.

kgbenson · Post by **kgbenson** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:58 am

I think everyone should keep in mind that not everything works for everyone in every instance and not everything that seems to be a problem is for everyone.

The only real way to know would be to set up two colonies of crabs, same sizes, species etc. where the only variable is the substrate and then watch them over time. Compare them to see if there is a statistical difference in survivability between the two groups that may be ascribed to the substrate used.

Having said that, you would have to also deal with varieties of coir, the amount of moisture one person has in it vs another etc.

Doable, but tricky.

So what do we do - we fall back on anecdote and we tend to pick anecdotes that match our experience, whether or not it is reflective of the greater situation or not - human nature.

Now some folks are keen observers and can make pretty darned well educated guesses about things like this. Some folks simple have had longer to observe hermit crabs and have observed many more than others. It tends to make their observations more likely to reflect the situation than those of more limited experience. Not always, but generally. Usually it is better to trust their information vs that of someone with more limited experience.

So - are folks that use 100% coir more likely to have molt problems than those who use sand? I dunno - I think some experienced people think that is the case, and if it is true, does that mean that everyone who uses EE will definitely have a problem? No - just more of them than would if they used a sand/coir combination.

Anything else beyond that is speculation unless someone has the data.

Me, I use a sand Coir combination that is mostly sand. Why? Because the folks I have spoken to with the best track records of crab longevity use such a mix. It is still not perfect, but I don't own and Indonesian Island so I cannot duplicate their living conditions perfectly, nor is it likely that I have to. I tried the all coir thing briefly, and I liked the look, I liked how it doesn't scratch glass, I thought it was nice. But it does get swampy at times and I don't think, especially at depth, that it is as stable as it appears. It is loaded with lignin, but that too rots eventually.

Keith

sugarselections · Post by **sugarselections** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:13 pm

suebee wrote:compressus have not been the only species of crabs having problems unfortunately.

All my other species have also been molting well in 100% coco fiber, too.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:05 pm

Thanks Keith for your wonderful response, always insightful and you are able to say what I am trying to! I don't have the resources to know for 100% sure, but it did not work for me so I won't do it that way ever again.

Sugar, I am really happy that none of yours have had this issue I hope this trend continues for you.

suebee · Post by **suebee** » Tue May 11, 2010 10:41 am

Found something to do with my old rotting coco nut fiber! its making a nice mulch pile so i can have fresh worm castings. Really stinks when it rots however. The bucket full i made with salt water that was really not that wet at all but was in the bottom of a tank dark was so nasty, moldy and stinking. I didn't want to toss it due to the expense of it so i put it in my mulch pile. So far so good. I hop to have some baby worms to feed my hermits very soon.