I think I just saw my crabs doin' the dirty! BABIES!!!

Post by **wodesorel** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:51 am

So very very very cool!

(Incidentally, you made me go and check all of my crabbies. Unfortunately they all have switched shells in the past month and I don't know who is who anymore, so I think it's all the females that are being stubborn and not coming out!)

SojMad · Post by **SojMad** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:02 am

Wow, congratulations!! This is amazing! And the videos and the pictures are great! I especially liked video number two (Crabs mating again) and the egg video (of course

).

Haha, hermit crab love is in the air all over the world.

Have you contacted THCP? But what if she drops the eggs out of stress if you send her? Would it be possible to hatch the eggs and then send the babies?

CrabbyIrene · Post by **CrabbyIrene** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:30 am

WOW! Amazing, though I felt like I was invading their provacy watching the video!LOL!

TwoC.Anne · Post by **TwoC.Anne** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:08 pm

I had a dream two of my crabs were getting busy and I decided to play Barry White for them :roll:

I would be a little concerned about the stress of shipping too. I'm sure that THCP can give you some input on that, and perhaps how best to ship them if you decide to send them to Tammy.
I actually would like to try to hatch eggs if any of my girls are ever Preggy. I have several large Reef tanks going. And we have a 100 gallon refugium (a tank without predators in it so that plants and food and stuff can grow.) This is plumbed into two 120 gallon reef tanks and a 200 gallon sump pump. So there is a lot of water going through our system. I personally think this may be important in trying to maintain water quality and salinity levels for the babies. Plus there may be a key ingredient that is missing that they need. With more water and more "Life" there may be a better chance that this is covered. I think that our safe nutrient rich refugium would be a nice little crabby nursery. I'm still thinking out the details, LOL.

wolfnipplechips · Post by **wolfnipplechips** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:29 pm

I sent a message to THCP today just like 5 minutes ago. Hopefully they can give me advice, or other contacts if they can't take her.

Thanks for watching the videos!

@Sojmad it might be possible to first hatch them, and then send them, but I am leaving town on July 20th, and won't be back until Aug 8th. I will likely miss the event of the hatching.

@TwoC.Anne yes, I think having a tank set up for them would be their best chance! I know in one paper I read, they said to keep them in aerated marine tank at 23C. But it was translated from Japanese, so it probably had some details missing. I think in Sojmad's thread, somebody said a sponge filter would be best? Good luck if your crabbies ever get pregnant!

Sounds like you have a really good shot at raising crab babies!

I had marine tanks before for a school project type of thing, and all of my fish kept dying in the small one, but in the 300ga one, everything was thriving! Until the power went out over xmas break... But I definitely think bigger tanks are much easier on marine life.

zippity · Post by **zippity** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:41 pm

I haven't been able to watch the videos yet; my seven year-old is over my shoulder watching the crab photos while I type...

Does a university in your area have a marine biology department? They might have a setup capable of successfully hatching the eggs; whether they are willing or able to help, I don't know, but it's worth a try.

wolfnipplechips · Post by **wolfnipplechips** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:02 pm

Unfortunately, no, no marine biology program yet (scheduled to have one within the next few years). The bio department takes HORRIBLE care of their lab animals, and doesn't have much material to spare sine they are in the process of building a new building. I doubt they would be of much help. Back home, I live about half a mile from a NOAA fisheries lab. They do a ton of research and have great facilities. It would be awesome if I could just bring her home with me when I go in July, but it would be cutting it too close to when she is supposed to drop her eggs, I think. And I wouldn't be there to monitor the babies the whole time since I'm only there for 2.5 weeks.

Unplanned pregnancies are so stressful!

MudCrabDude · Post by **MudCrabDude** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:43 pm

Wow, awesome.

Are they the same crabs in your avatar?

Either it's the avatar contest or the Alaska weather that's causing this...

Looking through mating video 2, it actually resembles a tarantula mating, with the "tapping" behavior of the legs to the underparts. Too bad the shells are in the way of the view...

I think the eggs would turn darker in a couple of weeks once they are ready to be dropped into seawater.

Personally, I would keep the crabs, seeing as to how they seem "compatible" with each other, regardless if I'm able to keep this current clutch of eggs or not. But this is just me.

Good luck with how you proceed from here on out.

MudCrabDude · Post by **MudCrabDude** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:16 am

By the way, I've always imagined that if I get some of my hermits to "berry" (ie. carry a clutch of eggs) I would set up one of my empty 10 gallon tanks as a "nursery" with a saltwater-sloping sand beach similar to wodesorel's fiddler crab setup seen here:

viewtopic.php?t=80873

I would have a sponge filter and let the egg-bearing female live there in the nursery alone for about the duration she carries the eggs (the dry land part would have a dish of freshwater and a dish for food). Once she drops the eggs, she'd be back to the main tank, and the larvae, seeing if they are alive, would be fed with the filter-feeder formulas found in the marine section of the petshops here.

But I'm getting ahead of myself here.

wolfnipplechips · Post by **wolfnipplechips** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:23 am

I know for sure that the bottom crab in my avatar is indeed the female.

Not sure about the top crab. I have so many stripey shell crabs!

I definitely am having trouble figuring out what to do (HCP hasn't written back yet). If I did send the female (and maybe a another friend), I would expect the recipient to send her back afterward. I want to give the babies a chance, but I would never want to give away my ruby-eyed beauty for good.

wolfnipplechips · Post by **wolfnipplechips** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:29 am

MudCrabDude wrote:By the way, I've always imagined that if I get some of my hermits to "berry" (ie. carry a clutch of eggs) I would set up one of my empty 10 gallon tanks as a "nursery" with a saltwater-sloping sand beach similar to wodesorel's fiddler crab setup seen here:

viewtopic.php?t=80873

I would have a sponge filter and let the egg-bearing female live there in the nursery alone for about the duration she carries the eggs (the dry land part would have a dish of freshwater and a dish for food). Once she drops the eggs, she'd be back to the main tank, and the larvae, seeing if they are alive, would be fed with the filter-feeder formulas found in the marine section of the petshops here. But I'm getting ahead of myself here.

I have an empty 20ga, but I don't think I have the money right now to do something like that. I would need a lot of supplies. But definitely in the future, that would be a good thing to have going!! I'm hoping that this will happen again.

Maybe I will collect super tiny shells on the beach when I go home next month. There are a lot of littorina snails.

I saw that thread earlier. Those fids are so freaking cute!!!!

TwoC.Anne · Post by **TwoC.Anne** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:06 am

Yeah, salt water tanks are certainly not cheap. My husband calls his, "boxes to throw money into." I would check out ThatFishPlace.com. They have a store, and do internet orders. They staff marine biologists and have a TON of aquarium stuff. Their prices are usually very low.

Post by **wodesorel** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:43 am

My little fid tank wasn't bad at all, and it's a 20 long:

100lbs of sand

Small heater - 7w to 10w for heat, though be careful and make sure to use a thermometer. Under $10 at Walmart.

Filter - I used a spare in-tank filter for the fids, but for teeny little babies it would suck them right up! I think a sponge filter would be safest for them. Here's more about sponge filtration as it's not commonly used anymore, and it's relatively inexpensive: http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com ... ation.html

And of course a hydrometer to make sure that the salt levels were correct and that they didn't fluctuate between water changes. Heck - a test kit would be ideal but as long as you used the same water source and same marine mix each time there's little risk of huge differences in the water. (One less thing to worry about.)

If the tank was set up now and cycled using ammonia then it would be ready when the babies were ready to be hatched and water changes wouldn't need to be performed very often. (Fishless cycle http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/f ... ycling.php)
Or a shortcut would be to buy a piece of marine live rock (that's been kept in a tank with fish) when the babies hatch and use that to deliver the good bacteria right into the tank. It would have to go in the same time as the babies though because if there's no ammonia for the bacteria to consume they'll die off before they're needed!

SojMad can give you tips on the food, I'm sure.

Artemia (brine shrimp) or powdered fry food (fish section of pet stores) should work.

I realize that this time it's not going to happen, but if it happens again in the future it wouldn't be too hard to do.

wolfnipplechips · Post by **wolfnipplechips** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:29 am

It all seems so complicated! But I REALLY appreciate all the info! Thanks very much! Definitely going to bookmark this thread if my crabs ever pull this stunt again.

I am going to be ready!

Annoyingly, I threw away a new heater and 55ga filter last month. I kept it for years in case it would come in handy and lo and behold...but too late I guess.

:roll: Life...

Would you need a calcium source in the water, or would they get that through the salt water mix? And would you need an air stone in there, too, or would the filter keep up the 02 levels enough? Should I get a filter meant for a larger tank to move more water? About how often would the water need to be changed if you know? How would I change it with all the teeny tiny crab babies? So many questions!

I can't sleep tonight! It's past midnight but my brain just keeps thinking.

Post by **wodesorel** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:34 am

Did you read through that paper I posted in SojMad's thread? They went into pretty good detail in how they reared their babies in small tanks with filters. If anything it would give an idea on what worked for them and then you could tweak it from there since they didn't have great success (9 babies out of thousands made it).

I would be on the cautious side and go with a smaller filter since we have no idea how sensitive they are to currents or how good they are at swimming. An air stone wouldn't hurt as long as the little ones aren't buffeted around too much by it, but that would need to be a trial-and-error thing. The 55 gallon filter would have been WAY too strong for them! They'll also need to be able to catch and eat prey, so if they can't keep up with it as it's moving they'll have problems.

The salt water should have enough calcium, though if you wanted to get technical you could buy a marine calcium testing kit and liquid calcium supplements. The sell the liquid for reef tanks, and I used to use it to help my freshwater snails build stronger shells.

Water changes depend on if the tank is cycled. If it's uncycled then a large amount would need changed daily, more if ammonia builds up. (From rotting food, since I doubt little babies would produce that much waste.) If it's cycled then a small amount of water should be changed out once a week. I'm sure SojMad knows some wicked tricks on how to actually get the water out safely!