Prepping for Babies! (In the food dish this time. Sigh.)

[wodesorel]

Neo is still alive this morning! Longest I've gone.

I actually got to watch him catch a baby brine shrimp. Yay food!

There was no sign of any more eggs, and both Holo and the other female are no longer hanging out around the water bowls. I'm assuming the eggs have been dumped.

I also don't think we're done with breeding yet as Mighty Man is getting into it with every other male in the tank again. I'm assuming this means there's another female who is either getting ready to or just has produced eggs.


It also cements my theory that many of us have had crabs with eggs and we never knew. Unless I had been looking for them specifically, the only eggs I would have seen this year were with the Es. Four pregnant PPs would have gone completely unnoticed and I know I would have dumped those water bowls without a second glance for the little ones. Unless they get the whole mass into the bowls, and those bowls are staying rather clean, the babies are extremely hard to spot. Keep checking for eggs everyone! You'll never know unless you look.

[Bridgitmac80]

I know the eggs would be hard to see on the substrate regardless and in the water, but seeing as how you have been watching for them so closley, I wonder if #1 the dig a hole sometimes and put them in or #2 the mother or another adult eats the eggs.

Amazing the behavior they show at breeding time and again at egg depositing time. Wonder how long the males are like this and so diligent of the females.

[wodesorel]

Seriously! In the dish with the oyster shells. I have photos of it, it was so silly. It was like

"Oh, my eggs are ready, but I just need to have my nightly oyster snack. Oh, I'll be fine, I'll just pop over to the dish for a second. Oh! My contractions! I have to have the eggs right here! *dumps all the eggs out* Oh! Silly me! I'm a crab! I don't have contractions. I could have held onto them for two more minutes as I walked over to the water dish."




As punishment (no, not really, but it did feel awfully satisfying) I took her upstairs and rinsed her and her shell out since I did see some eggs clinging to her abdomen. I got about three dozen babies out of her, and I think they were mostly alive. I am glad I did that as it gave them a chance at least, and she's none the worse for it. (Mad, but none the worse.)

I see a cloud of little ones bouncing around the bottom, but they are not free-swimming. They are alive for now at least.

[wodesorel]

How many more females with eggs do you have now?

Possibly one, but I can't find her. I'm not sure who left what where seeing as how some were in the water dish, some in the food dish, and gosh knows where else they were jammed. And the hermits were super active last night and today. I mean, really active. Will they eat each other's eggs, do you think? Because I'm wondering if they were on an Holo Egg Hunt which is why they were climbing everywhere and anywhere.

[CrabbyMom33]

And the hermits were super active last night and today. I mean, really active. Will they eat each other's eggs, do you think? Because I'm wondering if they were on an Holo Egg Hunt which is why they were climbing everywhere and anywhere.

Mine were super active last night too and following Moose around everywhere. I noticed that wherever she sat for a while there were a few eggs left behind. She was hanging out at the top shell shop near the light so it was easy to see. After she would move there were always crabs where she had been and no eggs left behind. I'm sure the other crabs were eating them.

[wodesorel]

Pictures of the eggs. I still can't believe she did that.





I don't think any of the babies were alive tonight. There were still a few flipping around this morning but it looks like they died throughout the day. (Could not get photos of them, but I did manage to get a bad video.) The majority of them on the bottom are pink, so like with shrimp it means they've officially passed. I'll check again in the morning, but I don't think any made it. None ever managed to swim, so... yeah.

[Curlz]

hey at all,

I do not think that it has something to do with wodesorels crabs.

One of my females hatched her eggs into the fresh water dish. Even though 47,3 inch away the salt water pool was available. And although they normally hatch their eggs into this salt water pool.
I do not know why she did that. Maybe she was bothered by another crab. Or was besieged by a male.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for the next time

[wodesorel]

Thanks Curlz. I do worry though that out of at least five crabs who had laid eggs - some of them in the saltwater - not a single zoea behaved normally before it died. I really do think that something is causing them to not form properly. Something might be off with their conditions, or perhaps I'm missing something in their diet that is causing the eggs to form improperly.



At the moment I'm trying to decide what to do with the 20 gallon I had set up for them. I've got an awesome sea monkey colony going in there so I can't just tear it down, and now that it's been set up so long it's cycled so it's perfect if I do get babies again. The problem is that no on in the States has ever seen eggs outside of the summer months so it might be June until it's put to use. Normally I wouldn't care so much, but I desperately need the space it's occupying! But I really like the sea monkeys. Decisions, decisions.

I also bought a can of decapsulated brine shrimp eggs in case I do end up with viable young before next summer. Instant dinner until I can get feeder artemia up and going, since I'm not sure what is going to happen with the algea and rotifer colonies.

[Curlz]

I really do think that something is causing them to not form properly.

can you explain how do they look like?

Your crabs layed their eggs in salt water. That is good. Is it a water dish or is it a pool with oxygan in it?
When do you pick up the larva? Directly after they came out of their eggs. Or did they have to stay in the water for some hours?

I am asking because as far as I can tell, they have to be collected and put in salt water with oxygen as soon as possible. My larva hatch between in the middle of the night and early morning. Something between 3 and 5 o'clock in the morning. We wake up at 7 o'clock and can collect them. So that they only have to stay 2-4 hours in my pool. But the streaming pump is running and they went through it, till we catch them and put them into the breeding tank.

But in a water dish the chances are small. Even one hour may be too long beeing without oxygen.


And another theory of me:
when they are missing the ocean (or a bigger pool), they carry their eggs as long as possible. Maybe so long that the larva are about to hatch in the females shell. If they do not find the ocean (or a bigger pool) they lay down their eggs in the next moisty place. Mostly the water dishes. Or moss or even moisty food.



You understand what I try to explain, hopefully? (it's really hard to explain it in english)

[wodesorel]

I understood everything.

They are small pools that hold .7 litres each. When I knew there would be eggs I did use an air stone to make sure they were oxygenated. Even the eggs that were laid within 15 minutes of me finding them did not make it. The zoea never fully extended or were free swimming. Compared to the photos of yours and wolf they seemed undersized and they stayed curled up like they were still in the egg. They also never swam - they just twitched around a lot.

They were also laid in the middle of the day, not at night. I'm thinking it's more that they never developed all the way rather than they were overdeveloped. Either the females forced them out too soon (which I don't think is likely as they held them a full 26 days), or something caused the eggs growth to be stunted.

[Curlz]

they stayed curled up like they were still in the egg.

hm more than 500 Larva hatching at the same time. When we got larva in our pool (19 litre) we could see how many (!) they are .
Maybe the can't spread in the dish.

There are lot of unexplainable things in the development and crab care...

[wodesorel]

I only had around 300 to 400 hundred eggs at most, and each time only half of them were put into the water dish. The rest were scattered around the tank.

[Freedomwolf]

I have several questions about the setup and breeding. My first question is, how soon after breeding/dropping do you pick them up and put them into the bigger tank that you set up? Another question I have (it's two parts) is one, how do you set up the tank, and the other part is, what is the "alternitive" or "other" tank that was mentioned in this thread? I am also curious as to how or what do you do with the Zoea that have hatched in the water dishes? Also what size do the crabs need to be in order to breed? Please forgive all my questions and I hope I am not a bother. I am really curious and would like to know.

[wodesorel]

I'm not trying to brush you off, but these questions would be much better aimed at Curlz - she actually HAS babies that are several months old now!!
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=88646

For me, I was moving the zoea to the larger tank as soon as I spotted them, but none of them seemed to be viable even though I was there for a couple of the layings. It's important they get into a large water source as fast as possible so they don't pollute the water they are in (which can happen in minutes with that many young in a couple cups of water) and so they stay oxygenated. I think Curlz had the most success since she has that giant saltwater pool where they could spread out and be safe until she could collect them and move them.

Tank should be set up with full strength salt water, and Curlz used a kreisler tank that was cleaned daily to keep the ammonia levels down. A kresiler tank is a special design (that can be made at home) that is used for jellyfish as it keeps the current in a circular motion so that the animal inside is constantly moving and never comes in contact with the sides or bottom of the tank. I just had a plain old 20 long, and I'm thinking of converting a 20 tall into a kreisler tank for this coming summer. (If I get more eggs. )

All of my pregnant females were a bit more than golf ball sized - not one of the five that I saw carrying eggs was bigger or smaller even though I have many crabs on each side of that size. I honestly don't know if that was the same for all the others who had eggs this year. The male who was responsible for one, if not all, of the the batches was not the largest in the tank, but he was in the jumbo class and has always been the most dominant. (I've got video of one of the mating here: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=88044 )

[CrabbyMom33]

All of my pregnant females were a bit more than golf ball sized - not one of the five that I saw carrying eggs was bigger or smaller even though I have many crabs on each side of that size. I honestly don't know if that was the same for all the others who had eggs this year. The male who was responsible for one, if not all, of the the batches was not the largest in the tank, but he was in the jumbo class and has always been the most dominant.

My female that had eggs is the largest PP in my tank, at the top end of large, possibly even just barely a jumbo.