New 65g build, lots of questions as I go!

[hprmom]

Wasn't sure whether to put this here or the pictures section, but since I have crabitat condition-related questions I figured I'd start here. I've been researching the forums for weeks for info and ideas, so I'll try not to duplicate questions answered elsewhere unless there's an aspect I haven't found a specific answer for.

Size Matters
We finally got a free weekend to clean out the spare room and figure out what size tank would work. It was a toss-up between a 55g and a 40B. In the end we came home with... a 65g!


In my 1300 sq ft, 1950's house this thing is a behemoth! I think it's the same size as @marandashermies last build (36x18x24), which is what inspired me (thanks a lot, LOL). Frankly I'm finding it kind of intimidating! I hope I'm not getting in over my head.

I'm hoping to pull everything together over the next two weekends, then get the conditions stabilized before moving the crabs in. We're going to be gone the second half of June, so I want to have a couple of weeks of everything up and running before leaving it to a pet sitter.

Location, Location, Location
Originally this was going into the "spare" room, which gets great natural daylight and not much traffic, until we realized having a big humid hotbox in a room where we regularly run a dehumidifier to maintain equipment is probably not a mutually beneficial arrangement. So it's going into the main living area, on an inside wall (fewer temperature variations).

The Heat is On
First up, I need to order the ultratherm. My choices are 11x35 (46 watts) to cover the whole back of the tank, or 11x29 (38 watts) which would leave ~6 inches uncovered for a cooler corner (I was thinking I could pile an area of sub higher here, maybe an eco earth "pit"?). Currently I have an 11-watt 6x17 ultratherm on the back of my 10g and a 16-watt zoomed on the side of my 20g, and both are holding a steady 80/80, with the house temp at 74-75F. The zoomed (inherited with the tank) surprised me, it's mounted on the side yet there is only a 1-degree difference in temp 24 inches away on the other side of the tank. We're in Central FL so it's only going to get warmer and more humid, and I'm concerned about overdoing the heat (especially when we go out of town and raise the thermostat to save electric).

Questions:

(1) Those of you with 18" deep tanks, do you see much of a temperature gradient between the front and back of the tank?

(2) Is it okay to hang moss pits, shell shops, etc. against the wall that has the UTH? It has not been an issue with my smaller 11- and 16-watt UTHs, but is 38- or 46-watts too hot? Will it cause the plastics to release toxins? Other than drying out the moss faster, will it cook crabs in the moss pit? The moss pits are currently my crabs' #1 hangout, I'd hate to get everything set up and then find that the crabs won't go there because it's too hot.

Miscellaneous Questions (sorry, I ran out of clever subheadings)
Corner guards - do you hang these like an "L", with the horizontal line at the bottom, or like an upside-down "L", horizontal at the top? Around all four walls or just the back and sides?

Pools - Thinking about having one pool larger and/or deeper than the other. Do your swimmers prefer msw or fw for swimming?

Sand art - Has anyone tried "sand art" with different ratios of sand:ee as the "colors"? I realize it wouldn't stay that way, but thought it could add visual interest (for human viewers).

Fairy garden decor - I'm in love with the idea of having a hobbit door somewhere. Is fairy garden decor safe, or can I make it safe by sealing it with something (like what?)? I imagine the paints on these items would be similar to the desktop fountains some crabbers use. Some examples: faux stone planter, gnome door.

Whew! And I'm just getting started...

[hprmom]

The other night my seven-year-old and I each drew up crabitat design ideas. Here's the one he made on my iPad (I typed labels as he directed). His drawing skills are vastly superior to mine, so I will not be posting my version, LOL.


He's pushing hard for me to buy a couple of items he saw at the store or on amazon. While they won't all make the cut, I'm super impressed at his effort and looking for ways to incorporate some of his ideas! The "wreath hut" is a great one we're already using in our 20g. It's a greenery candle ring that we snipped a couple of branches from to create a "door". The leaves meet overhead and form a leafy "hut". The crabs hide under and climb over it, too... until they reach the middle and fall in, lol.

[hprmom]

Would it be more effective for me to break up my questions into short, topic specific posts (easier for people to target with answers?) instead of keeping it all in one giant build thread? If so, I'm happy to do that, just want to do what's most appropriate and will make it easy to give/receive help. Mods? Thanks!

[aussieJJDude]

I personally don't see a problem with all your questions being in the one place... I'm sure its fine.

Those of you with 18" deep tanks, do you see much of a temperature gradient between the front and back of the tank?
OK, even though I currently have a tank with a 2 foot width/depth, I did have a 4 foot tank that was 18" wide. I did notice that there was a temperature gradient - particularly in the winter of Melbourne - which could differ by a 5 F. So I personally would go for a UTH that covers the entire back, particularly if you plan for it (UTH) to be your only heat source. But since you live in a warmer climate than me, I have to consider that every day for you is summer! So yeah, save a bit of electricity and go for the smaller one!

Is it okay to hang moss pits, shell shops, etc. against the wall that has the UTH? It has not been an issue with my smaller 11- and 16-watt UTHs, but is 38- or 46-watts too hot? Will it cause the plastics to release toxins? Other than drying out the moss faster, will it cook crabs in the moss pit? The moss pits are currently my crabs' #1 hangout, I'd hate to get everything set up and then find that the crabs won't go there because it's too hot.
I guess so, as I currently have plastic sitting up against the UTH. If the plastic is food grade, you shouldn't have a problem; the only problem I see is if the UTH could burn the plastic... If it can burn the plastic, I imagine that your crabitat already is too warm. Most of the time, the moss pit isn't that deep anyway, and its rare for crabs to moult in them. Considering that the moss pit is the favourite area of the house, I don't imagine any crab game enough to try it out and moult in there.

Corner guards - do you hang these like an "L", with the horizontal line at the bottom, or like an upside-down "L", horizontal at the top? Around all four walls or just the back and sides?
Where ever you think you need to place shell shops, vines and other decor put the corner guards there.. If you only need it along the back wall, then its a good idea to put it along the back wall. I'm sure you get the picture.
As for the way you hang these, I don't really see a problem in either way. The upsidedown is probably more out of sight, but the right side up might be a good way to place platforms on top - or an are for the smaller crabs to explore... Or a useful vantage point in escaping. Not that they would, it sounds/looks like an amazing setup.

Pools - Thinking about having one pool larger and/or deeper than the other. Do your swimmers prefer msw or fw for swimming?
What do your crabs prefer to swim in, the SW or the FW? If they more likely to go in the SW, then get a bigger SW pool... If its FW, then bigger FW pool. My current clan loves the SW pool, but the one before them really digged the FW pool. I'd say its common for crabs to swim around in a SW pool, so if your unsure, go with marine.

Has anyone tried "sand art" with different ratios of sand:ee as the "colors"? I realize it wouldn't stay that way, but thought it could add visual interest (for human viewers).
Well, my crabs are avid sand artists! ... They really know how to depict the moon. If you want to do it, why not? Just don't expect it to last for long.

Fairy garden decor - I'm in love with the idea of having a hobbit door somewhere. Is fairy garden decor safe, or can I make it safe by sealing it with something (like what?)? I imagine the paints on these items would be similar to the desktop fountains some crabbers use. Some examples: faux stone planter, gnome door.
Eproxy? Dunno, it would depend on each individual decor... If its "organic" or 100% natural, then it would probably be fine without extra sealant. Have you thought of making your own or buying it, like looking in the fish section and finding a door or fairy garden decor?

[hprmom]

I personally don't see a problem with all your questions being in the one place... I'm sure its fine.

Thanks, just wanted to keep it simple!

I did notice that there was a temperature gradient - particularly in the winter of Melbourne - which could differ by a 5 F... But since you live in a warmer climate than me, I have to consider that every day for you is summer! So yeah, save a bit of electricity and go for the smaller one!

Okay, this is really helpful. 5 F seems like a lot, especially since I only get about 1 degree gradient in my 10- and 20g; I had no idea what it might be in a deeper tank. I looked up your weather and it seems as mercurial as our "winters", a sudden cool day in the middle of a week of warm ones (or the other way around)! We do get lower temps for maybe 3 months, but mins rarely lower than mid-40s. I ordered the 11x29 heater from The Bean Farm and ironically it wound up costing more than the 11x35 (Reptile Basics has the best prices and shipping rates, but sadly doesn't carry the "in-between" sizes). If it's too hot I'll add a dimmer; if too cool, I can supplement with the 6x17 from my 10g.

If the plastic is food grade, you shouldn't have a problem; the only problem I see is if the UTH could burn the plastic... If it can burn the plastic, I imagine that your crabitat already is too warm. Most of the time, the moss pit isn't that deep anyway, and its rare for crabs to moult in them. Considering that the moss pit is the favourite area of the house, I don't imagine any crab game enough to try it out and moult in there.

The plastic is all shower caddies and dollar store baskets, so I can't speak as to whether they are food grade, but they are the harder type of plastic. I'm not too worried about anybody trying to molt in the moss pit, more just not wanting to ruin their favorite spot by overheating it.

As for the way you hang these, I don't really see a problem in either way. The upsidedown is probably more out of sight, but the right side up might be a good way to place platforms on top - or an are for the smaller crabs to explore... Or a useful vantage point in escaping. Not that they would, it sounds/looks like an amazing setup.

Ha ha ha! Well, I hope it is interesting enough to keep them entertained. They all seem to enjoy crawling on the ceiling so I'll have to keep an eye out for potential escapees whenever I open the lid. We did a test fit of the corner guards today and decided to hang them "L" shaped.

What do your crabs prefer to swim in, the SW or the FW? ...I'd say its common for crabs to swim around in a SW pool, so if your unsure, go with marine.

MSW was my first thought, and seems I see more pics of that here, but then I thought about your question (like, why didn't I think to ask myself that?!). I've never seen any of our crabs "swim" by choice, only by accident! But I thought perhaps it was because my water dishes aren't really deep enough for swimming, and wondered if the crabs might choose to swim if I make the next iteration of pools deeper. I mostly know they've been near water by seeing dirt in the dish. But when I do catch them near water, they are usually hanging out on the ledge of the freshwater dish dipping limbs in. So this tells me my new pools need to have an edge/border/ramp/platform; and that the freshwater needs to be at least as large as the MSW.

Well, my crabs are avid sand artists! ... They really know how to depict the moon. If you want to do it, why not? Just don't expect it to last for long.

LOL! I suspect when the time comes to add sub, I won't care anymore.

(Re: fairy garden decor) Have you thought of making your own or buying it, like looking in the fish section and finding a door or fairy garden decor?

Yeah, nothing in the fish section. Saw a few things at Michael's today, though, and might pick one up to experiment with sealant. I did think about building a door with harvested sticks and stones, but it's low on the priority list.

[singlemomwithcrab]

Fairy garden decor - I'm in love with the idea of having a hobbit door somewhere. Is fairy garden decor safe, or can I make it safe by sealing it with something (like what?)? I imagine the paints on these items would be similar to the desktop fountains some crabbers use. Some examples: faux stone planter, gnome door.

Whew! And I'm just getting started...

If you can find something made from "resin" I find that that is what most marine grade stuff is and should be fine with a good cleaning and a quick drop in boiling water but don't leave it in the water long, I'd say 15 seconds then let it air dry.

[hprmom]

If you can find something made from "resin" I find that that is what most marine grade stuff is and should be fine with a good cleaning and a quick drop in boiling water but don't leave it in the water long, I'd say 15 seconds then let it air dry.

Great, this is exactly what I needed to know! I found some doors in the right scale at Michael's, I'll double check but they looked like resin to me. The paint doesn't look like it will flake, it seems like part of the resin, perhaps it's how it's manufactured. Thank you!

[hprmom]

New question: wood glue?
We're building a tree by pinning pieces of cork bark together with wood dowels (food skewers cut down). My husband wants to know if it's okay to use something like Elmer's wood glue in the joins. Glue would go in the drilled holes for the dowels and then the pieces joined, it's all interior structure and not where crabs could get to it. Would that be safe, or does all adhesive in the tank need to be silicone?

**EDIT** I did a little digging in old forum threads and found that Titebond III is a safe wood glue, so I'll go with that. My husband had suggested making a slurry to fill in small cracks, and there was a thread suggesting the same thing!

[marandashermies]

I am also going to comment since you are basically in the same boat as I was
First of all, yay for the upgrade! They are so much fun.

Questions:

(1) Those of you with 18" deep tanks, do you see much of a temperature gradient between the front and back of the tank? - in my tank, I do not. It pretty much remains the same through out. I have two UTH's one of the side, opposite the pools as well as one that covers the entire back, above the sub. I have cork flats against that back wall, so the heat does not get through those cork flats very well. I also have 3 heat bulbs that I use. Two are blue bulbs that are on 24/7, one is a day bulb that is only on during the day.

(2) Is it okay to hang moss pits, shell shops, etc. against the wall that has the UTH? It has not been an issue with my smaller 11- and 16-watt UTHs, but is 38- or 46-watts too hot? Will it cause the plastics to release toxins? Other than drying out the moss faster, will it cook crabs in the moss pit? The moss pits are currently my crabs' #1 hangout, I'd hate to get everything set up and then find that the crabs won't go there because it's too hot. - I hang my moss and shell shops against my UTH's with out any problems. The one thing I will say though, as suction cups will not stick for long against a heated wall. This has proved true in all of my tanks. I have to hang them with zip ties or prop them up with cholla or cork. So prepare yourself accordingly for that, as it will happen!

Miscellaneous Questions (sorry, I ran out of clever subheadings)
Corner guards - do you hang these like an "L", with the horizontal line at the bottom, or like an upside-down "L", horizontal at the top? Around all four walls or just the back and sides? I put my corner guards around the back and the sides. If you want you can also do one on the front of the tank. I wish I would have! Check out my thread of my build and you can see how the corner guards are laid out.

Pools - Thinking about having one pool larger and/or deeper than the other. Do your swimmers prefer msw or fw for swimming? This one is tough.. but if I had to pick one, I would say they are SUBMERGED more often in the fresh water. Honestly with me, it depends on the crab. Boomer is constantly in the salt water pool, and Bambi in my 56g literally lives in the fresh water pool on top of the airstone.

Sand art - Has anyone tried "sand art" with different ratios of sand:ee as the "colors"? I realize it wouldn't stay that way, but thought it could add visual interest (for human viewers). can you explain what you mean by this a bit more?!

Fairy garden decor - I'm in love with the idea of having a hobbit door somewhere. Is fairy garden decor safe, or can I make it safe by sealing it with something (like what?)? I imagine the paints on these items would be similar to the desktop fountains some crabbers use. Some examples: faux stone planter, gnome door. - if possible boil or bake the items before putting them in your tank. But I have not used these items, so that is just MO. They are very cute though! I bought a bunch of succulents from a fairy garden store off of Etsy, they are so cute!

Hope that helps! Enjoy your build

[marandashermies]

if you haven't seen this thread, it should help!

http://www.hermitcrabassociation.com/ph ... 6&t=110233

[hprmom]

Ah, hi @marandashermies! Yes, I followed your build closely and that was the inspiration for us to go with this size tank! So thank you for blazing the trail.

Re: temperature gradient - in my tank, I do not. It pretty much remains the same through out. I have two UTH's one of the side, opposite the pools as well as one that covers the entire back, above the sub. I have cork flats against that back wall, so the heat does not get through those cork flats very well. I also have 3 heat bulbs that I use. Two are blue bulbs that are on 24/7, one is a day bulb that is only on during the day.

Oh, WOW. That is a lot more heat sources than I am about to try. So you have a pretty constant temp throughout the tank, while aussieJJDude has a gradient in the winter. What's the usual temperature of the room outside the tank? Since my house is 74F nine months out of the year, we decided to try for the least we think will work but that can be insulated/supplemented if needed.

Yesterday the hubs decided to glue the corner guards INSIDE the house. When I discovered this I quickly turned on the vent fan and threw extra towels over the 10g and 20g to protect crabbies from the smell (to keep the peace, because you can't gainsay an engineer once he has begun!). I forgot to remove one of them before I went to bed and this morning the 20g temp was 93F! Normally this tank holds at 82F so that was a shock!

Re: the suction cups, after the Great Suction Cup Smell Incident I stopped using them entirely. I found a size and shape of Command hook that fits perfectly in the suction cup holes, I keep meaning to post it. The only fiddly thing is, with a corner shelf even though all four holes are hooked to the wall, the back corner lifts when weight is put on the front curve. I cut down another hook and hung it upside down to hold the corner in place, but am trying to figure out a better solution.

Pools - Thinking about having one pool larger and/or deeper than the other. Do your swimmers prefer msw or fw for swimming? This one is tough.. but if I had to pick one, I would say they are SUBMERGED more often in the fresh water. Honestly with me, it depends on the crab. Boomer is constantly in the salt water pool, and Bambi in my 56g literally lives in the fresh water pool on top of the airstone.

Guess it's an individual crab preference thing then! My current pools are just small reptile rock dishes, plus one of the "step down" rock pools. I've seen crabs on the edges and steps but never submerged by choice. I just want to try at least one deeper pool to give them the option, in case the reason is simply that I haven't provided a deep enough pool before. My new containers are only 3" deep, but that is almost 2x deeper than the rock dishes. We actually have a mini critter keeper we're not using and I'm thinking of making it into a pool, it just seems SOOOOO deep compared to what we're used to! If the crabs will benefit, I would do it! But it's a lot of real estate if it turns out they never use it. I guess the nice thing is it's just plastic and sand, nothing is getting cemented into place so I can always make changes.

Sand art (if I try it, I would only do maybe 3-5 stripes of "color"--i.e., different ratios of sand/ee--not going to work that hard!):

[marandashermies]

I thought that was what you meant by sand art! I have a couple different types of sand in my tanks, then you add the eco earth and it looks pretty cool! you can kind of see it on my 125g build, in the pics section. I say go for it

Glad you got the corner guards squared away! They made no sense to me either at first. But they are so useful. I wish I would have known about them when I did my 55g build. That's funny about your husband, your so lucky to have him help you! I had to have my dad help with my 125g and I did my 56g alone. It wasn't easy hauling that tank, stand and bags of sand up my stairs. I figured out how to use power tools in the process too, and no one lost an eye!

I live in MN, so the temperature is different every day. One day it will be 88 and the next its 60...haha but we are used to the "never knowing" here. My house fluctuates between 70-75, depending on the weather. During the winter, I usually keep the thermostat at 70 or 71. In the spring or summer, I usually just open the windows in my house and however hot it is, that's what my house is, minus 10-15 degrees. But like I said, if I didn't have those cork flats, I don't know that I would have needed the extra UTH or the lights. The tank stays about 82-84 degrees and 82-83% humidity. The 56g only houses exotics, so I have to make sure that temp remains above average. Being that you live in a warm state, I would just go with a UTH that covers the entire back, like I did. If that doesn't work, add some heat lamps before you buy another UTH. But honestly, I think that should do it for you!

I forgot that you didn't use suction cups anymore! I might have to try the command hooks again on a few items. Which ones do you use? I used one in my old 20g L and had a heck of a time getting that sticky thing off the tank. But I don't plan on getting any other tanks anytime soon, so I think that would be a good idea to give those a whirl again.

If you want to try bigger pools, I would suggest some Tupperware from the dollar store. It will only cost you a few bucks and that way if they don't use them, you can just pull them out and but the reptile rock dishes back in. Make sure you buy two of each size. One to remain in the sub and one that you stack on top of that, which is filled with the water. It makes it much easier for water changes!

Like your PP's mine rarely go "swimming", I see them actually submerged maybe once or twice a month. That doesn't mean they aren't when we are sleeping though! But they are always walking along the edge of the pools and dipping their toes in. My Straws are the swimmers. Sometimes I think they are confused and think they are sea crabs, haha. They like being in the water 100x more than my PPs. But even so, I would still go for deeper pools. It is just comforting knowing they "can" if they want too.

I am glad I was able to inspire you I have added some things to the tank since I made that thread. I will take pics and add them to this thread when I get home. Have fun with your build, I am so excited too see the outcome!

[hprmom]

Glad you got the corner guards squared away! They made no sense to me either at first. But they are so useful.

My husband brought home two different weights/widths of corner guards. We put the heavier/wider ones on the back and sides, and a strip of the thinner kind across the front just in case... I like to keep my options open, LOL. Your photo helped a lot.

I forgot that you didn't use suction cups anymore! I might have to try the command hooks again on a few items. Which ones do you use? I used one in my old 20g L and had a heck of a time getting that sticky thing off the tank.

I love the plastic hooks and clips, they make it really easy to remove shelves for maintenance, you just unhook them. Of course I zip tied a bunch of stuff to the shelves so everything comes out at once, LOL. I do make sure to place the pull tabs (of the sticky strips) in a direction that will give me room to pull (usually up), and I haven't had any trouble removing them if I need to move a clip.

I experimented with several types of clear command clips. My favorites are the Mini Hooks for hanging shelves/baskets, and the same style in a tinier size, the Decorating Clips for hooking nets onto. I have another style useful for tightly securing vines, but now that I have corner guards I won't need them anymore. Below is a photo in my 20g where you can see the Mini Hooks holding up a soap dish (bottom left and center) and the corner of a shower shelf (right). The hook in the upper left with a net hooked on is the tiny Decorating Clip (I also attach those sideways and upside down, whichever direction I want to pull on the net). I just held the shelf in place where I wanted it and marked the position of the holes on the outside of the tank with a dry erase marker, as guides for where to place the strips.

That's Tommy Bahama in the wreath, he thought he was pretty well hidden, LOL. The wreath is held up with a single command outdoor light clip (aka cord clips), the curved opening for cords fit the candle ring perfectly.

Here's another 20g pic with the Mini Hooks holding up the shell shop, and another flat style holding nets and vines (Tommy likes to doze here). One caveat, the back corner of the shelf tends to lift when weight is applied to the front curve. I fixed it by shaving off part of a cord clip and securing it upside down to hold the corner down. I'm looking for a better solution since this is likely to be a problem with my corner moss pit in the new tank.

If you want to try bigger pools, I would suggest some Tupperware from the dollar store... Make sure you buy two of each size. One to remain in the sub and one that you stack on top of that, which is filled with the water.

I love this idea, I've had it pinned almost since I joined the forum! I found some plastic containers at IKEA that come in the exact same size but two different depths: a 3" depth for the pool and a 2" depth that I will bury. I tested them in the store, and nesting the 3" inside the 2" has the exact same lip above the ground as nesting two 3" together... with the benefit of not having to bury the bottom container as deep.

I am glad I was able to inspire you I have added some things to the tank since I made that thread. I will take pics and add them to this thread when I get home.

Can't wait to see!

[hprmom]

New question: Substrate amendments
I'm planning on a 5:1 sand to ee ratio, which has been working great in my 10g, with a little extra ee piled in my forest area. This time I'd like to add crushed oyster shell. Again I combed the threads, and saw amounts of a cup here, a half-pound there, etc. Is there a recommended ratio of oyster shell to add? Mix it in evenly with the rest of the sub, sprinkle it in layers, or personal choice? Is there a recommended source for safe crushed oyster shell (pet store, or best to stick with one of the hermit crab shops?)?

Any other recommended sub amendments? I've read mixed reviews on worm castings, so I think I'm just going to use that as a food.

[Rawrgeous]

I personally just sprinkled some crushed bird oyster throughout, hasn't seemed to hurt anything. A sidenote about command hooks, somebody mentioned shower command strips, and I'm thinking of giving them a try, because I found just the strips cheap online, and I have leftover hooks from my other pack.

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