Considering a connected plastic tote set up...any concerns?

fantasybookworm · Post by **fantasybookworm** » Wed May 13, 2015 1:48 pm

Because I'm probably going to be moving out later this year, and may be doing some moving around yet for at least the next couple of years, I'm already thinking about moving my three crabs over to a plastic tote set up. I'm just paranoid that I might be missing some major concerns or considerations with this idea. This is what I'm thinking -

I want to get two clear plastic totes, around 30" long, at least 18" wide, and at least 18" tall (been looking at this one - http://www.containerstore.com/shop/stor ... 26+1000023 but I might end up going with something from the local Menards or something). I'm also thinking about getting two additional totes so I can cut them all up & add the two extras on top of the others to add height for climbing without risking them getting too close to heat lamps (if I use them). I want to connect the totes with some 4" PVC pipe so the crabs can go from one tote to the other. I would probably have one pool in each tote so that the airstones can keep the humidity up (hopefully). Both totes would also have hides & shell shops, at least. I'd probably also split the food bowls up between the two totes, but I haven't quite thought that far along yet.

I'm thinking I would use an UTH for each tote, along with possibly a heat lamp if needed to keep the temperature warm enough. At least the heat lamps would be on a thermostat, when used. If I had to be using both heat lamp & UTH at the same time, the heat lamps would be on the thermostat, but it doesn't have enough outlets for four items, so the UTHs wouldn't be. I'd be using the plastic lid that comes with the tubs, probably with a hole cut out & replaced with screening for the heat lamp. Heat lamp would be wired in place so it would be easy to move the lid around without having it sliding around or something. Humidity would hopefully remain stable with the pools having airstones - I might upgrade the size of the airstones and see if I can get the bigger pump my friend has (as I might upgrade the pool sizes, I'm not sure yet).

So I guess my questions so far are...

- Is this an acceptable-sounding set up to last my crabs (two smalls & a medium, I think) for 2-3 years until I'm hopefully done moving around?
- Is there a concern using UTHs not on a thermostat on plastic totes?
- Will there be any issues with the PVC bridge between the totes not being heated specifically?
- Is it likely the crabs will get used to and use both totes & move between them?
- Are there any other concerns I'm missing?
- Will the crabs be too stressed out being moved to a new set up sometime this summer? Should I expect another period of destressing once they were moved to the new set up? I'm hoping not to dig anyone up to move over, I'd rather wait until they're all up & then move them over. But I'm not sure if that's a bit too optimistic or not. I can't move them over one at a time - I don't have the heating supplies to be able to do that.

hermitcrabdc · Post by **hermitcrabdc** » Wed May 13, 2015 2:25 pm

Hello,
I hope this helps,

- Is this an acceptable-sounding set up to last my crabs (two smalls & a medium, I think) for 2-3 years until I'm hopefully done moving around?

- That tote you linked is 33 gallons which will be big enough for 3 crabs, so two of them connected would no doubt house 3 crabs for a good many years

.

- Is there a concern using UTHs not on a thermostat on plastic totes?

- A heat mat on a tote is perfectly fine, I've been using a UTH on my tote since January without a thermostat and it heats the tank really well without melting the plastic.

- Will there be any issues with the PVC bridge between the totes not being heated specifically?

- If you only have PPs they should be fine without the PVC being heated. I would think most species would be fine without that one small portion being heated.
I can't manage to find any good pics atm, but curlz has tubes connecting two tanks (the first two pics are hers http://hermitcrabassociation.com/phpBB/ ... ks#p896190
(Is there anyone around who might be able to tell me why my links aren't working?)

- Is it likely the crabs will get used to and use both totes & move between them?

- Hermit crabs will explore and probably end up finding the second half of the set up. Especially if there's food over there that smells yummy

- Are there any other concerns I'm missing?

- The only thing I can think of is trying to mount totes of top of the ones on the bottom. I'm just not sure that the bottom totes will be able to support the top ones. I'm probably not the greatest to answer this question, sorry

- Will the crabs be too stressed out being moved to a new set up sometime this summer? Should I expect another period of destressing once they were moved to the new set up? I'm hoping not to dig anyone up to move over, I'd rather wait until they're all up & then move them over. But I'm not sure if that's a bit too optimistic or not. I can't move them over one at a time - I don't have the heating supplies to be able to do that.

- They usually will explore when they are in a new place. I've never seen many signs of stress once in a new tank unless they are a new crab. I wouldn't worry too much about stress.
If you have 3 crabs hopefully they'll all be up sometime that you can move them all over at the same time, I've had all my 4 crabs up at the same time before, (back when I had 4) don't worry about it too much.
Hope this helped

hermiekk · Post by **hermiekk** » Wed May 13, 2015 4:24 pm

I have mine currently in a tote and I love it, although it does make it a little harder to see them than a tank. I use an UTH and it works fine on mine, I'm guessing my hermit crabs got a little stressed out from moving from the tanks to the tote because some of them dug underground right away but others adjusted just fine and loved exploring their new home. Good luck!

fantasybookworm · Post by **fantasybookworm** » Wed May 13, 2015 5:59 pm

Thank you both!!

I'm getting super excited about this idea! I'm hoping it'll work out nicely...I was at Meijer & found some totes that would be perfect to use, and they had four of them, so I may go back sometime this weekend or next week to get them. They're about 26 gallons each, so they would still give plenty of room. I think I'll still try cutting up two totes to put on top of the bottom ones and see what happens. Maybe I can use aquarium silicone to help connect them. I'll have to be careful how much height I try to add since I agree that it could end up being too wobbly. Though I think the weight of the substrate may help weigh down the bottom tote & keep it stable...we'll see. I could always push them up against a wall once things are set up & attached & whatnot, to help stabilize it.

I'll definitely post a thread once I start this project, to share pictures & the whole process! I'm excited to give my little guys an even bigger place, more to explore, and bigger pools. And it'll be easier on me for moving too!

Also hermitcrabdc, that thread you linked is giving me MAJOR tank envy.

They're all so gorgeous!! I can't wait until I'm settled in somewhere for a long time & can set them up a proper palace.

hermitcrabdc · Post by **hermitcrabdc** » Wed May 13, 2015 8:32 pm

I know, that's a huge problem with crabbing

though once I set up my tote with topper I'm very happy and content with it. I hope you are happy with the your ending tank

Maybe I can use aquarium silicone to help connect them.

I'm no expert but during a conversation with AussieJJdude back when I was still planning my tote I asked him if silicone would stick to plastic. He replied this,

Hmm, I think after a while the bond will be lost... But I good idea is to scratch the living daylights out of it, sometimes the bond will last longer.... ‏
A bit of a hit or miss IMO...

So you may not want to use silicone for attaching the totes

fantasybookworm · Post by **fantasybookworm** » Wed May 13, 2015 9:07 pm

Ah, shoot, thanks for pointing that out! I don't know much about silicone (clearly), lol. I'll keep brainstorming. The way I'm thinking of connecting them, I'm hoping it'll be a tight enough fit that it'll help with holding the upper tote in place, along with some rounds of duct tape to help. Maybe my dad will have some ideas too.

Post by **wodesorel** » Thu May 14, 2015 3:20 am

Plastic is oil based, so unless you use a silicone that is developed for plastic the oils will break the bond over time and cause it to fail. I have no idea if the plastic silicone is animal safe though!

The big thing to keep in mind is not the total volume of the totes, but the dimensions of the footprint, which is the length and wide of the bottom. Molting space is most critical for long term survival, and many of the totes out there are taller than a similar volume fish tank, which means they can support less molting crabs. There's a list of dimensions of the standard tank sizes here that can give you a better idea how it compares: http://www.anapsid.org/resources/tanksize.html

fantasybookworm · Post by **fantasybookworm** » Thu May 14, 2015 6:53 am

Hm, I suppose I could check into it! I'll definitely post if I do find something out about it. But I'm guessing I'll probably try to go for pressure + tape or something. Since the lower & top totes will be the same size, but I plan on having the top one slide down a bit over the bottom one (if that makes sense), which I'm guessing will be difficult to do. But if I can manage it, then the tight fit should help keep it in place...I hope!

And yeah, I noticed some of the totes were extra tall, with a smaller footprint when I first searched online. I was tempted for the height, but had seen a comment about footprints & molting space when researching! That was why I started thinking about doing the attachment thing with the top totes, to add height, so that most of the size is in the footprint. If I remember correctly, the totes I was looking at at Meijer yesterday are something like 30x21 for the base dimensions, and 13" tall. They're similar to the 37 gallon tank, it looks like, but have an even bigger footprint!

Amiller2850 · Post by **Amiller2850** » Sat May 16, 2015 7:27 pm

The tote idea is new to me, what do you use for a lid that breathes?

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moonbeam · Post by **moonbeam** » Sat May 16, 2015 8:59 pm

When I began crabbing I kept my crabs in totes while I saved up for a tank. I may have a few ideas for you.

As far as a lid that breathes you can drill or punch holes in the lid or the side of the tote (as close to the top as possible so you can have a good sub depth). My only advice is set the totes up in advance with moistened sub and heat source and drill holes CAUTIOUSLY. I say this because I went drill happy and had to wrap my tire with plastic wrap because I had too many holes and it couldn't hold moisture after that. It's easier if you drill a few first and see if you need more from there. Also, I liked drilling holes in the side of the tote instead of the lid because you can then put the UTH on lid. I got the idea to put the UTH on top from reading another thread where the guy put his heat sources above because it simulated the way natural heat comes down from the sun (or something of that sort, I read it almost a year ago lol) plus he was building such a large enclosure that the UTHs couldn't penetrate the walls as well (it was a 1,000+ gallon tank!!). Anyways, I was able to stick the UTH on much easier to the lid without worrying about it eventually falling off the side. Just be careful setting it up because if you will be removing the lid often you will need to watch your wires to make sure you don't pull the UTH off over time or cause wire troubles.
If you do plan to put toppers on the totes, you could try drilling or punching holes into both bottom and top totes and tie them with cable ties which won't break or weaken over time (though I can't say whether or not the weight of the topper will weaken the walls of the bottom).
Edited to try and fix spacing which obviously didn't work lol.

fantasybookworm · Post by **fantasybookworm** » Sat May 16, 2015 9:09 pm

Amiller, I'm going to use the lids that came with the totes (I have three - one for each tote set up, plus an extra in case I screw one up somehow). I plan to use a drill to make holes in them, as Moonbeam said.

I can easily cover the holes with tinfoil/tape if I need more cover to keep in humidity. And yeah, I also want to make some holes in the side of the totes, for using to attach second levels & ziptying things in place. Same thing with those, I can cover them with tinfoil & tape if needed/not in use. I imagine it won't necessarily look pretty, but I don't care about that too much right now. My main concern is something that will keep the proper conditions for the crabbies & be easier for me to move around with.

I hadn't thought about the UTH on the lid...hm. I'll consider that, but I'll probably stick with having it on the sides. I'd rather leave the lid free because in the winter, my room gets quite cold, and I may need to add heat lamps to the set up. I'm hoping not, since I already found out how much those mess with the humidity, but we'll see. I'm going to be using larger pools & bigger airstones (and a stronger pump), so hopefully that will help keep the humidity set.

...Wow, I don't know how I didn't think about the zip ties for connecting the top totes to the bottom ones!! I was just discussing that potential problem with my dad & he was suggesting hot glue gun (which I was planning to do more research on in case of harm to crabbies). The zip tie thing sounds much easier though...And I can cover them up with tinfoil/tape for humidity purposes as well. Thank you for that idea, that's definitely helpful!!

Also Amiller, I hadn't even thought about totes either until I saw this! viewtopic.php?f=39&t=94562

Reptilian Feline · Post by **Reptilian Feline** » Thu May 21, 2015 9:22 am

My experience with totes have been positive, I'm using them for my Giant African land snails and I used one temporarily for my turtle.

Silicone won't really hold on that kind of plastic. It needs a special glue.

A soldering iron makes neater holes.

If you need to put something together, a line of small holes and fishing line as thread makes a solid stitching (hard on the hands though).

Clear tape over the holes is better than tin foil. It holds better.

fantasybookworm · Post by **fantasybookworm** » Thu May 21, 2015 4:02 pm

Thanks for the tips!

I"m not sure if we have a soldering iron, but I can ask my dad. And I was planning on putting tin foil with tape over it - I haven't had much luck once tape meets the humidity in the tank, so I figured the combination might hold better & keep the humidity in better.

hermitcrabdc · Post by **hermitcrabdc** » Thu May 21, 2015 4:39 pm

Hot glue is safe for the crabs but it doesn't hold up well with the humidity. Plus I've always had terrible luck trying to get it to stick to plastic, it comes off without much trying. I think the zip ties are a good idea

Reptilian Feline · Post by **Reptilian Feline** » Fri May 22, 2015 4:52 am

If you put the tape on the outside, it seems to hold well. The humidity in the room is lower than in the box. It might have to be replaced after a while, but tape on plastic comes off easy enough

And if you don't have a soldering iron with a small round tip, heating a knitting needle on the stove should work too, not as efficient though.

HCA: Hermit Crab Association