What do I need to know about Bettas??

[wodesorel]

What about ammonia? Some of the kits don't have it and that's the first to rise and is the most deadly. You won't get nitrite for about a week and a half after the ammonia spikes, and nitrate doesn't come along until about week 4.

A bit more about the cycling process and graphs explaining what is going to happen: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebinde ... ycling.htm

[Bridgitmac80]

OMG that was on my list and didn't grab those! I can get them tomorrow. Getting ready to do a water change now.

[Happy Crabber]

OMG! I'm in so much trouble..... look what I found.....
http://www.bettaakapes.com/HTML%20Produ ... 20all.html



Not that I would start with one of those, but they sure are fun to look at.

[wodesorel]

OMG! I'm in so much trouble..... look what I found.....
http://www.bettaakapes.com/HTML%20Produ ... 20all.html



Not that I would start with one of those, but they sure are fun to look at.

There's this little place called Aquabid that has sucked up entire evenings of mine before. I don't think I could ever bring myself to mail order a betta though. (Or pay those prices. :roll: )

[Happy Crabber]

Yup- I found this place through aquabid. Aquabid is amazing! And these prices seem like just the first of many charges. It says you have to pay international shipping then local shipping. Who knows how much that is....

Here's a question.... when buying fish from on line or a store, are there ethical issues to think about, like with cats and dogs? Is there a certain way to buy that is better than others?

[wodesorel]

Heck yeah, but there aren't as many options with fish as there are with larger pets. Ideally you want to find a home breeder who is breeding for good traits and/or the challenge of it, and then selling locally. This used to be where most fish in small pet stores came from, but fish keeping is a dying hobby so it's much harder to find. 20 years ago it was extreme, now good luck finding a big tank in a pet store. I've met four people in the past couple of years who used to have massive breeding operations in their basements for various fish species - mainly for the fun of it - but got out of it about 15 years ago when it stopped being able to fund itself. It was never a big money maker, but at least they weren't loosing money on it back then.

The other option is to check craigslist for people who have fry and need to rehome them. Some species breed more readily in captivity then others and then you have dozens of fish without the room to care for them. There are also breeder directories online for things like bettas and cichlids where you can find local respected breeders who care about their stock and their reputation.

However, bettas are bred for looking nice and for specific traits (color, finnage) which means that many of the fry (young) are culled (killed) if they don't look perfect or didn't come out as expected. Some breeders will offer the less then perfects for reduced prices or for free just so they go to a good home. With up to 300 betta per breeding though, a lot of them will end up getting culled just for space reasons. No reason to keep them all if you only need a couple perfect ones to try to bring out the trait you want in future generations.

Pet stores use American fish farms to breed their fish, which can end up being just like puppy mills - large, overcrowded, and diseased. Imported fish are often kept the same way, and many are lost to the shipping process - but that's mainly bettas as Thailand still puts out the most numbers on them. There are also species (like the otocinclis or my kuhli loaches) where they're still wild caught just like hermits, which can lead to many deaths, illness, overharvesting, etc.

Fish are extremely cheap, so not many companies or stores care about losses. Go to any pet store on delivery day and the day after, you'll see just how severe it is. Some species have an 80% death rate. (If you can find an employee who works the fish department who will actually talk to you about it, they can tell you which ones do the best. Took me ten years to befriend the lady at Petsmart where she would be honest about it with me.)

[Happy Crabber]

Wow- thanks for the info. There is an independent aquarium store near me, so I'll check that first.

On another note, what do you think about kits like these?
http://www.amazon.com/Fluval-Chi-Aquari ... lies_img_z
Assuming I'd add a lid and heater? Does the waterfall create too much current? I do like the nontraditional look of them.

Do you know about the quality of this brand?

[wodesorel]

sugarselections has a couple of those for her bettas, and they seem to work out well. (And of course her thread with photos has already been cleaned out. :roll: ) I'm pretty sure she's using the Chi version.

With bettas, side to side space is more important then up and down so that's something to consider when looking for a tank. The other thing is a lid - they will jump, and they are suicidal. I'm not sure if the standard Fluvals come with a cover of some sort or if you can buy something to go with it - you might have to juryrig something to make it betta safe .

Fluval in general is one of the top fish supply companies out there. When we get a canister filter for the goldfish tank (read $$$) we'll probably get a Fluval as they're worth the investment and have a great track record.

[Eugooglizer]

Wanted to just throw a few things in here regarding bettas--

I highly recommend sponge filters for betta tanks--they're inexpensive, effective, and don't produce a strong outflow like HOB or built-in filters so no modifications/baffling is required for bettas. You won't find them at Petco/Petsmart, but many LPSs stock them and they're easily ordered online, Amazon has a very large selection--heres an example: http://www.amazon.com/Hydro-Sponge-Filt ... supplies_4

As far as food, New Life Spectrum Betta Pellets are generally considered the "best" staple, with the Omega One Betta Buffet pellets coming in next. The NLS brand is sold in Petcos as well as online of course, and I believe both Petco and Petsmart carry Omega One. Frozen brine shrimp, tubifex worms, mysis shrimp, etc. can also be used in moderation for added variety and "treats". A tiny bit of the frozen foods goes a very long way, so as long as you aren't feeding whole cubes at a time they'll last for quite a while in your freezer too.

And there are "good" betta breeders here in the states, not so many that there will necessarily be ones local to everyone, but they do ship, and when packed correctly bettas ship quite well. I bought, and had shipped, bettas from a well-known breeder several times before she moved overseas a few years ago. Just wanted to put that out there as an option--breeders can often be found in the classifieds section of various aquatic/betta-specific forums.

[Bridgitmac80]

Oh my goodness those Bettas are BEAUTIFUL!!!! Forget those prices, I will be content to look at pretty pictures

[Emily]

Oh my goodness those Bettas are BEAUTIFUL!!!! Forget those prices, I will be content to look at pretty pictures

One thing you NEED to be careful about when buying halfmoon bettas (those that you saw on aquabid are double halfmoons) is that their muscles are NOT equipped to deal with the weight of that tail. Their muscles collapse between as early as 6 months of age and a year, and they cannot "flare" or lift their tail anymore. Once this happens the usual aggression-cycle of a male betta fish is interrupted, and the fish exhibits psychological distress and mentally incorrect behaviours, because it cannot flare. These bettas generally die very quickly afterwards.

Also, double halfmoon bettas, rosetails and feathertails are a dead end fish, as most of their offspring usually have genetically weak or undesirable lines through inbreeding, and through mutation. Even if you don't want to breed them, I would not suggest buying one, they are much more prone to disease and early death. Fin rot and skin disease are very common amongst these fish.

I would highly suggest buying a REGULAR halfmoon betta, as their tails are still very beautiful while not totally interfering with the fish's quality of life. They are still more prone to skin disease, but they are affected less.
I LOVE halfmoon and double tails too, but I just can't buy a fish that I know won't have a good quality of life.

[Eugooglizer]

One thing you NEED to be careful about when buying halfmoon bettas (those that you saw on aquabid are double halfmoons) is that their muscles are NOT equipped to deal with the weight of that tail. Their muscles collapse between as early as 6 months of age and a year, and they cannot "flare" or lift their tail anymore. Once this happens the usual aggression-cycle of a male betta fish is interrupted, and the fish exhibits psychological distress and mentally incorrect behaviours, because it cannot flare. These bettas generally die very quickly afterwards.

Also, double halfmoon bettas, rosetails and feathertails are a dead end fish, as most of their offspring usually have genetically weak or undesirable lines through inbreeding, and through mutation. Even if you don't want to breed them, I would not suggest buying one, they are much more prone to disease and early death. Fin rot and skin disease are very common amongst these fish.

I would highly suggest buying a REGULAR halfmoon betta, as their tails are still very beautiful while not totally interfering with the fish's quality of life. They are still more prone to skin disease, but they are affected less.
I LOVE halfmoon and double tails too, but I just can't buy a fish that I know won't have a good quality of life.

Do you have some sources you could provide me with regarding DT HM males muscles collapsing by a certain age and leading to the ensuing consequences? I'm well aware of the fact that increased finnage is directly correlated to loss of agility and mobility to certain points, with even VTs showing a marked difference from actual wild-type bettas, but this is the first I've heard of it to that extreme. Both of my male bettas are double tails, one being an HM, the other not quite, so more of a delta. When you say they're very prone to fin rot and skin diseases also, is this something due to a genetic factor or is it a direct result of these actual types of tails and correlating body build (i.e. DTs usually being more "short-bodied" than STs)?

[wodesorel]

I haven't read anything that in depth about tail type affecting their health, but I've read things over the years where the farther you get away from wild type and the worse bred they are (fish mill) the more likely they are to be disease prone and not live as long. It used to be a 4 year life span was touted as normal, but now most of the betta sites are saying 2 is about average.

I've really bad luck with Veil Tails loosing the ability to hold their tails erect within the first year. They hit their prime at about 8 months and they just go downhill afterwards. I've been trying to stick with Delta Tails since they don't show the same decline and slowing down as their long-tailed counterparts. (I say trying as I usually buy the half-dead ones out of pity rather than picking out a fish I actually want. )

I know that dragonscale bettas have a tendency to have that opaqueness of their scales eventually grow up and over the eye as they age. All of mine are showing signs of it and they're all about a year old. I'm hoping it won't progress to the point where they're completely blind (which can happen), but only time will tell. Weird little side effects of the breeding where no one realized it would become a health issue until it was too late.

[Bridgitmac80]

When I did a basic google search I read something about the larger double half moons and another......forget the name, getting to where they can't raise them anymore because of the muscle getting weak from 3 things, not enough space for movement/exercise (those sick little 12 oz can's they have them in in the store), they sometimes get so large they can't raise them any longer, and lack of food.

I found which kind my daughter has but I forget now. He is very beautiful, dark purple, and has the pointy ends to his tail and fins. I did put a mirror in there with him as suggested by one fish site, they call it an exercise mirror. That is pretty much the only time he fans out fully. Sometimes during meals as well. He loves to sit behind the mirror or in the center of the large pink bush and just watch the living room.

[wodesorel]

Reflections may be a very bad idea for fish - while they respond the same as they would to a live fish, they're actually terrified while it's happening since the "other fish" doesn't react properly to the situation.

http://www.livescience.com/6466-fish-fe ... tions.html