HCA: Hermit Crab Association

I just got back from the pet store with my daughter (6yrs old) and she's in love with a Betta fish. And I have to say, I'm a bit smitten as well. The pet store guy said all they needed was the little betta kit they sold, 1/2 gallon. Having learned my lesson with the crabs, I told her we'd go home and do some research first. I know many of you guys keep fish... can you tell me what I need to know?

Here are some of my questions....
How big of a tank do you need for one? for two?-divided, I do know they can't be totally together
Can you keep other types of fish with them?
Is a Betta a good fish for beginners?
Can you put live plants in their tank? I see at our Petco they have a big selection of aquatic plants. That could be fun.
How long do they live?
How long do you spend each week tending to their tank? High maintenance?
Is there a site like this that you would recommend for fish?
Should you buy a small one or a big one, does it matter? When choosing the fish, are you just looking for color and liveliness? Anything else we should consider?

I've never kept fish before, so I'm open to ALL info you can give me. Don't hold back....assume I know nothing.

Thanks guys.

This is a LONG reply with a lot of information. I hope you take it into consideration.

1) How big of a tank do you need for one? for two?-divided, I do know they can't be totally together.
Its best to give a betta fish 5-10 gallons. They prefer heated areas, as they are tropical fish. In their native habitat the water is 79-80 degrees, which is ideal. They CAN survive in colder water but they will not live as long. Filters are a good idea but you need to divert the flow so that there is little to no current.
I would not put two together ever, there is some research that suggests that in close quarters, males can "sense" each other, some say it is because they secrete a hormone that males can recognize, others disagree, but people have noted that when two bettas are in the same tank, divided or not, the fish do not live as long.

2. Can you keep other types of fish with them?
Yes, but they cannot be colourful fish, they should be fast fish, able to run away from the betta in case it decides to nip. But keep in mind that if you put other fish in there you will DEFINITELY need a filter and a heater, as goldfish and other cold water fish would not do well with bettas.

3. Is a Betta a good fish for beginners?
They are as good for beginners as hermit crabs are for beginners. You need a proper set up, which includes 5-10 gallons of space, a heater, and a low-flow, sponge covered filter with a diverted flow. Once a good set up is there, the fish is great for beginners. But so are goldfish (except they get much much bigger).

4. Can you put live plants in their tank? I see at our Petco they have a big selection of aquatic plants. That could be fun.
Yes. The tank should be heavily planted for them to hide, and feel safe.

5. How long do they live?
Between 6 months and 3 years depending on the fish's bloodlines and your own set up. the fishes with shorter lives are often in poorer conditions than those that live longer. My friend and I (who have been raising bettas for years) have had fish live up to 3.5 years. But that is not average at all.

6. How long do you spend each week tending to their tank? High maintenance?
On a proper tank? 30 minutes once a week for me. You only need to drain 20-25% of a properly cycled and maintained tank. And scrape away algae, maybe trim some plants.

7. Is there a site like this that you would recommend for fish?
Beware betta fish sites. I find that many of them have beginners posting awful advice. The best is to look for private forums dedicated to betta fish care. NOT SHOW BETTA CARE. Show bettas have very different requirements. I can't give you advice on this, as my friend is the one who gave me all the information.

8. Should you buy a small one or a big one, does it matter? When choosing the fish, are you just looking for color and liveliness? Anything else we should consider?
It doesn't matter, but as a beginner choose a larger on. Look for colour, if there are patches on the skin or a film over the eyes those are indicators of disease. The poop is supposed to be rust coloured and a consistent string with minimal clumping. No white poop, this indicates parasites. If the flowing fins end in hooks (curved tips at the bottom) or rips, this usually means fin rot, or disease. Look for white dots, that indicates a fungus called ich. Don't buy these fish.
Buy from a small, privately owned petstore if possible. They usually get fish from local breeders. They might be more expensive but the fish have a better chance to come from genetically stronger lines.

Betta fish are NOT as much work as other fish, but they ARE tropical. The heat and the gallonage (5-10) shouldn't be optional. Do not put them in with other bettas, even if they are divided. Also, if you think that these are childrens pets to live in small tanks and feed once a day, this isn't the pet for you. Betta fish need to be fed TWICE (two small meals a day) to prevent bloating and intestinal disease, and require the same care as other tropical fish. They need water conditioner, bacterial supplements, proper nutrition (they are carnivorous fish, they cannot eat tropical flake food) and other considerations.

Walmart Sells 10 gallon kits for $30 including a filter, a net, etc. A heater is extra. Silk plants are better than plastic. Bettas need hiding spots, and more importantly they need shaded areas away from bright light. Bright light can affect their vision, and disorients them.
If you want live plants, get natural gravel.

If you want more info, PM me, my friend is an expert on betta care and I can ask her to answer your questions herself, we're roommates and she LOVES to get emails about betta care.

Wow so glad you posted this since my 16 yr old is planning on getting a betta in a day or two...........Just read this entire thread to her lol. She mentions they sell Betta water.....she can just use the same fresh water I use for the crabs correct? I use the API dechlorinator in it. Also told her she should wait and get her Betta somewhere other than WalMart maybe since all the ones I've seen there looked awful sad and had torn fins.

Haha no problem!
Use dechlorinated water, but you also need to think about biological supplements as well. I use the Nutrafin series. Aquaplus and dechlorinator. One of them stabilizes the water, the other one adds the natural biological supplements that tropical fish have.

Buy them in bulk, because otherwise they are very expensive. "Betta Water" is just another gimmick that people sell to try and make money. You can use most tropical fish water supplements to make the same water. While it might be useful to try and help cycle a tank, I wouldn't buy it unless they could prove that it had some biological advantage. By prove, I mean perform water tests on it in front of you and letting you read the test manuals.

Betta fish are awesome pets. There are many varieties that I should mention.

Plakats are shorter round tailed bettas more closely related to their wild ancestors. Normal tails are common, but halfmoons are becoming more popular, and much prettier but they require 10 gallons to reach their full potential. DO NOT GET ANY FISH THAT IS DOUBLE-TAIL. Usually their fins will collapse within 8 months because they are so heavy, rose and feather tails are unbreedable, and genetically messed up. Avoid them.

BETTA FISH WILL NOT GROW TO THEIR ENVIRONMENTS! However in a halfmoon betta, their tail development is dependent on tank size (not the body of the fish) so to get the full, beautiful tail that many people want, you 100% need the full 10 gallon tank. So if you have a halfmoon in a half gallon kit, their tail will be stunted.

I forgot to mention. Filters need to be covered in sponges, as not to suck the fish up. Thats an important one

Emily, thanks so much for that great reply. Gooooood info. Good to know about the 10g tank. I was thinking we might be able to swing a 5g. Most of the Bettas at our Petco seem to be half-moon males. Some were Placat and only a few were females. There were also a few "babies" that were about 2 cm long. Super cute. But they' weren't sexed. Good idea about visiting an aquarium store. I'll do that.

Where do you get those special filters? Or do you add the sponge yourself?

So much to think about. Now....to convince the hubby......

A 10 gallon is actually cheaper then a good 5 gallon. I don't recommend the acrylic bow-fronts as I've had two crack on me after a very short time in use. If you want it to last as long as the betta does then you should go glass, and between the cost of the tank and the cost of the lid a 10 gallon with hood is less! The kits have started using cheaper materials for the hoods (2-part ones, or flimsy plastic) so you might want to make sure you can see it before you buy it. I wouldn't trust any of the new kits with my cats - they would bust through the lids just trying to sleep on them. :/

When it comes to fish it's good to invest in high quality products once and then you won't have to mess with it for decades. A solid glass tank, a good quality hood, a sturdy light (either LED, Fluorescent, or screw-in, whichever level you can afford or prefer), a really good brand of heater (Aqueon, hydor, Fluval), and a nice filter (Whispers 5-10 are perfect for bettas) should last for a decade or longer if you take good care of it. I can attest that a cracked acrylic tank is an absolute panic situation, especially when you've have the same betta for three years! Everything else we were able to tranfer over and I couldn't fit anything larger in that corner, so I did buy a 5 gallon glass tank from Pet Supplies Plus and order a hood with light from Petsmart.com as a replacement. My 20 gallon I set up in 2004 and I just had to replace the filter last week after all this time as the motor was going (and I honestly I had wanted to upgrade the gallons per hour on the tank for a while).

Wow my head is whirling round and round now lol

Husband and I are using the old 29g crab tank as a salt water tank, so what kind of heaters are best for that? We are heading to Petsmart in a bit since it is almost 2 hours away. Oh goodness so much to do it seems lol

They should have the Aqueon Pro heaters. I REALLY like them. They're made in Italy, and the very first heater I bought in 2004 was from that factory (same exact design, different brand) and it's still working perfectly. The other brands I've tried only lasted a few years. They are pricey, which is the only downside, but they're epoxy filled so they aren't able to spring leaks or crack if the water level drops like glass ones can. Full disclorure - I'm running six of them now.

They have a heating guide on the package that can tell you what wattage you would need. It has to do with the temperature the room is kept, how much water is in the tank, and what temperature you want the tank to be at. You'll probably need a 75W or a 100W for that size. I recommend sticking it to the glass underneath the filter outflow, so that the water flow goes over it and spreads the heat out evenly.

Wow wish I had saw that about the Aqueon heater before stopping at Petsmart lol. Which the fish are the husband's department, so he got a glass heater (FYI works great for now but scared of cracking). We forgot the gravel for the bottom of the tank so it's full of glass marbles till tomorrow (glad we had so many from where we used to make our own marble games and they were wrong colors), we already had the pump/tank/lid/tap water conditioner, still have to get a betta tank or make a divider to go the entire height of the 29g for a betta to be away from the 6 different gold fish types we brought home today. The tank seems so empty still!

Big problem

Goldifsh need cold water. As close to 68 degrees as possible. They are also pee machines so a 29 gallon can support 2 to 3 small to medium sized ones before the water starts becoming toxic faster than what the good bacteria in the filter can handle. You're going to need to do massive water changes every day to keep them healthy, even once the filter manages to get some sort of cycle going.

Even fancy goldfish get to the size of a dinner plate in about 3 to 4 years so they will need a 55 or bigger in short order. Common feeder goldfish will grow to over a foot in about 5 years when kept properly, so even one fish needs at least a 100 gallon tank or larger (with friends of course!) so it has the space to move around, or needs to be moved into a pond. We're hunting for a 150 to 200 gallon now for our two rescued commons as they're growing extremely fast and can't stay in our temporary tank for long. Water quality is important for these guys.

Please don't put the betta in with the goldfish - the size difference, the water quality, and the temperature needs - not to mention the difference in diet (goldfish are much more vegetarian while betta are carnivorous) is going to end up causing dead fish.

I knew there was a reason I didn't like goldfish much lol. My husband said that 4 are gold fish, the black and white ones I picked were something that began with a M.

I did the heat since all the tanks at the pet store were 74 to 80 degrees, I will turn off the heater, it's at 74 right now. I need to find that dang receipt and figure out exactly what we have.

1 is the black bug eyed fat one, 2 are small dalmatian things that began with a M, 1 is a black, white, gold fat body fancy tail gold fish, the other 2 are white and gold and probably are the common ones. Started to get some ghost shrimp too but they looked a little creepy......

Now that I know the temp differences, the betta will be getting it's own solitary tank for sure and the heater will go in it. Fingers crossed me and my daughter find a 10g at Wal-Mart tomorrow.

Mollies are a tropical species that do best with brackish conditions. They will get three times the size of the betta and will probably end up hurting him at some point.

I will state again for the record that I hate pet stores. They should have explained all this to you when you got them!!

I joined over at Koko's for goldfish help. They seem really well-rounded and calm for a specialty fish site (most are kinda wacked out), and they have great advice: http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/

TY I will head over there and save that page.

Yup, pet stores stink! Which is why I begged him to wait and go to Petsmart or Petco because A much LARGER selection, he could have gotten his tropical ones he wanted and B they know more, but he had to have some now now now, and Pet Supplies Plus was all that was open by the time we got back to town from the Smokies.

If any of the fish die (I turned off the heater btw), and this seems so morbid but it happens so much with crabs, can the crabs have the fish? And Happy I am so sorry to have jacked your thread, hope you are learning along with me and hopefully your not kicking yourself like I am.

I actually thought you went to Petsmart. The one here doesn't have any trained people.

I always suggest doing research at a good forum ahead of time so you can know exactly what you need and what you want when you walk in the door. (Like WetWebMedia.com or fishforums.net ) Never ever ever trust the store to give you either correct information or the correct species!

I wouldn't give the fish to the crabs if they do pass. You have no idea what medications they may have been given or what could have been lingering in the tanks. Feeder goldfish are notoriously parasitic, and fish stores see all kinds of diseases (new fish should always be quarantined for 2 weeks if you already have fish, or they can introduce something and wipe everything out). The top killer of new fish will be bacterial infections they get from the stress of the move, different water parameters, and of course if the tank isn't cycled that stresses them out too since the water won't be stable.

It happens to all new fish keepers. I was actually talking to my husband the other day about my first betta.... who lived for 12 hours. And the replacement... who died in three days. And then the entire of list of bettas after that. (I don't remember them all. I think it was a dozen, probably much more, in the first six months.) I was totally a serial killer and the stores kept telling me it was normal and fine and something had been wrong with the fish. Nope, it was me all along. Took some serious googling at the time (this was a decade ago) to learn about cycling (no, you can't just throw fish into water and turn a filter on) and water quality (ammonia is BAD, nitrite is WORSE), tank size (no, you can't put those hyper active loaches in a 5 gallon tank if you want them to not bash their brains in), water temp (yes, freezing water will kill your betta), and other things.

Fish are nice, but they aren't easy. Not by a long shot. It takes a lot of research and learning to do it, and then it becomes easy as pie. It only takes me about an hour once a week now to get through all six of my tanks.

And yep, some of those loaches I mentioned? Still alive! They live as long as hermit crabs.