Need help from Betta experts please

[Rose7314]

I know a lot of people on here have Bettas and are pretty much experts on them. I was in denial that something might be wrong with my Betta, Sparkles, but now I'm thinking she may have fin rot due to too over crowding in the tank (which I am also in denial about lol). Her fins are a little tattered but mostly they look like rugged, kinda whitish holes are forming in the tail fin, which I'm not 100% sure if that is tail rot. Earlier signs were that it looked like her scales were flaking off on her head and body. She has a great appetite and is active and doesn't act sick, but perhaps I can catch whatever it is early enough so she doesn't act sick. I read online to quarantine her and put a little aquarium salt in her QT, doing a 100% water change every day for 7 to 10 days and adding the salt. Is this right?

[aldebaron0626]

I used medicine from the pet store for my Betta with fin rot and she recovered. Definitely quarantine do the water changes too. (I wish I remember what I used). If you go to the pet store, or better, an aquarium store, they should be able to help you find the medicine. Sounds like you are catching it in time. Once they start acting sick it's hard to get rid of.

I'm not an expert or even very knowledgable and only kept bettas for a couple years in a bowl (not aquarium). That is what worked for me.


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[wodesorel]

If the tank is overcrowded and her fins are ragged, then what is happening is there is too much ammonia in the water. Water changes are the only cure. You don't have to worry about salt as they are freshwater fish. Once the damage stops she'll be able to heal herself.

Water quality is paramount with fish. They are stuck living in their own pee, so it's up to us to make sure the water stays clean enough for them!

If you can tell us a bit about her aquarium - what size it is, is there a filter, what else is in there with her - and if you know what the water parameters are - ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, and pH - then there's a few of us who keep fish who can offer suggestions on what needs to be done so she stays healthy and you don't have to kill yourself doing upkeep.

[Rose7314]

Crap, I totally forgot I was supposed to buy a kit to test the nitrate levels and what not in this tank. I know the ph levels aren't very good but I've heard mixed reviews on messing with the ph.
It's a 20 gallon tank, there is a filter, and I change maybe 50% of the water once a month so it stays clean. With her is a common pleco, a Cory catfish, two khuli loaches, a platy, and two fancy goldfish.

[CallaLily]

You'll definitely want to do more water changes with that group in a 20g. Pick up some test kits as soon as you can. Common Pleco's are messy and get HUGE. Goldfish are super messy too and really shouldn't be in a tropical aquarium. They can also get quite big. I don't have experience with loaches but I think they need a lot of space as well. I know I'm probably telling you things you've already heard. I would be doing weekly water changes. Once you have test kits, you'll have a better idea on how much and how often. I bet your nitrates are through the roof, at the very least. I hate to tell you because it sounds like you've already been told somewhere but it is in the fish's best interest to upgrade/split this group. I know it's not always that simple but something to keep in mind.

[wodesorel]

I'm sure you listened to the pet store! They will sell anything to anyone without telling them the truth. We all know that hermits are often abused and sold with misinformation, but the fish are treated so much worse.

What temperature are you keeping the tank, since you have a mix of cold water, sub-tropical, and tropical fish? Bettas can be temperature sensitive and require temps between 78-82.

Calla - the loaches would actually be perfectly happy in the 20 gallon with just the platy and betta. However, they need to be in huge colonies to feel comfortable. I don't recommend keeping less than a dozen or you won't get to observe normal behaviours. (That said, DO NOT BUY MORE at this time. You've already got too many fish in the tank. ) I've been keeping a kuhlis tank since 2004 and I completely adore them! They need temps between 75 and 80.

If you can, find new home for the pleco once it reaches 4 or 5 inches in size, so it can have space to keep growing. The goldfish have to find a home for themselves, away from the tropicals. They need cold water and are really pond fish. Eventually every goldfish will require a 125 gallon tank or larger, and if they're kept in too small a space for too long it will stunt their growth and kill them. They're sold as cheap pets, but they are really involved as far as equipment goes.

Water changes should be done twice a week, even with a filter. Are you changing the filter pads at all? (You shouldn't be, but I know the directions often say otherwise.) Even if you don't buy a testing kit, you can take a water sample in to Petco and Petsmart and they'll test it for free!

Edited to add: Cories are also a schooling fish and do better with 6 or more in a group. Again, don't get more right now! You should go with either cories or kuhlis, but not both in a 20.

[Rose7314]

Yeah you guys are gonna hate me but I do know all this. I have been looking everywhere for a 50 gallon tank and my funds are so limited I can't just buy one because they are quite expensive. As a temporary fix I'm thinking of switching my crabs tank, which is a 29 gallon, with the fish tank (4 crabs right now so I believe they will do fine in a 20 gallon, right?). I was doing water changes once a week but I can't remember why I stopped, I thought I heard it was bad for them because it gets rid of too much bacteria, but them again probably heard that from a bad source. Funny to say that right now these fish do act as one big colony lol but I totally understand what you're saying. The temp is kept between 75 and 80 degrees. Will goldfish not do well in warm temps? Yeah no pet store employee warned me that loaches and catfish should be kept in colonies like that so I just got a variety for my tank. I do not change the filter pads until they are at the point of literally falling apart, which takes a couple months or so to happen. Oh I remember why I stopped doing more frequent water changes, I got a better filter that seemed to keep the tank much cleaner so I stopped doing them so frequently.
No no I am done with getting more fish lol
Here are the best pics that I could get of her fins. You will see the whitish spots that kinda look like tears.

[CallaLily]

I'm sure you listened to the pet store! They will sell anything to anyone without telling them the truth. We all know that hermits are often abused and sold with misinformation, but the fish are treated so much worse.

Been there, done that. They're definitely only interested in making a sale.

Calla - the loaches would actually be perfectly happy in the 20 gallon with just the platy and betta. However, they need to be in huge colonies to feel comfortable. I don't recommend keeping less than a dozen or you won't get to observe normal behaviours. (That said, DO NOT BUY MORE at this time. You've already got too many fish in the tank. ) I've been keeping a kuhlis tank since 2004 and I completely adore them! They need temps between 75 and 80.

Thank you for the info! I don't know if I was confusing them with another fish or if somewhere in my mind I remembered reading about the large group (which usually means larger tank).

Edit to add: the reason so many water changes in this case is because of the overcrowding. At the very least, your nitrates are probably very high and water changes are the only way to keep those under control. They are less harmful than nitrites or ammonia but in high amounts over an extended time can cause problems. (Though I've always prefered smaller weekly water changes over larger monthly ones with aquariums I've had but this depends on the person and the tank I'm sure).

[Rose7314]

Sadly I also think I annoyed the young guy who was selling me the fish because I asked so many questions and he just gave up lol but I went through a phase where I was so excited about having fish that I didn't even think about the repercussions before I bought so many :/

[CallaLily]

I've been there Rose. Starting out in both fish and hermit crabs I made some serious mistakes and listened to bad advice. You're learning from it now and that's what counts.

[Rose7314]

Thank you

[wodesorel]

I made so many mistakes in the beginning! I was a betta mass murderer.

The thing about fish is that they're extremely cheap, past the initial setup. Once you purchase their equipment and the fish, all you need from that point on is food and dechlorinator and a testing kit. I've always believed that pet stores and the companies that make the supplies purposely mislead customers to make them come in and keep spending money on more fish, and medicine, and more supplies, etc - all of which is unneeded.

However, fish do require a lot of physical work with water changes. Upkeep is the hard part with them, especially when you have a lot of fish in a small space. (Which is common even for experienced fish keepers. Having less fish is easier, but having more fish takes more work. My 20 gallon is maxed, and it takes twice weekly water changes and daily monitoring of water parameters to make sure everything is running as it should.)

Please think about buying a block of foam for your filter. All you have to do with it is rinse it in a bucket of the tank water you've removed during a change. I still have the original foam that I started with in 2004. All of your good bacteria live on that filter insert, so when you throw it away your tank starts over fresh again, which causes the water chemistry to become dangerous again.

Definately get your water tested as soon as possible. It could be high ammonia, nitrite or nitrate given how many fish there are. The "cure" for all three is water changes, but it will determine if you have to do them twice daily or twice weekly, and how long it will take for the tank to stabilize.

And yes, goldfish do not do well in warm water. They start having serious trouble in temps over 75 degrees, and are at more risk for illness and growth problems with warmer water. They really like temps in the mid-60s, as they are coldwater pond fish. Goldfish should live for more than 20 years in captivity, but like hermit crabs are often not treated the way the need to be, and only live a few years.

The betta looks good. A little bit of fin melting is as sign of the water chemistry being off, but I don't think there's permanent damage done!

[Hermit-Yote]

I apologize if this information was offered earlier in the post, I'm on my way out the door but wanted to add my two cents in case it helps!
Bettas like to have a bunch of space to swim around, but not a lot of current. Too much movement in the water alone seems to cause the fins to tatter. D:

I keep my one female in a 55g with with Neon Tetras because they don't tend to nip fins. It also helps that he's much slower than them so they can get away in the event that she feel surly, haha.

I use a heater in my tank to keep it at 79F, and when I do water changes I add some "Stresscoat" to their tank. Bettas shouldn't be housed in anything under a 5 gal, anything less is the equivalent of a person living in a closet! Sure, they live in small pools of water, but that doesn't mean they're all that happy in a cup! (not saying you're housing them in a cup, I'm just saying).

I also have live plants and a ton of Mopani wood in my tank, this helps keep the amonia down.These work surprisingly well to help get a basic idea between test strips. The only other chemical I use in my tank is Declor.

Hope any of that helps!

[Rose7314]

Wow thank you that does all help! And I'm glad to hear that she doesn't look that bad phew! Well as of now she is being kept in a smaller container that is floating in the main tank until I can get a handle on the situation and to try to help her fins grow back. Yeah she gets pretty tossed around in the current at time and I feel lucky that she and the other fish get along well. Never any nipping because she is too slow as well :p
But yeah I need to strongly consider doing more maintenance, money really is my big problem and I really should've considered that before getting crabs or fish lol but I was dieing for animal interaction because I can't have any other pets
So where could I get this foam? Also yes, I will be trying to do more water changes and perhaps even switch the tanks this weekend.
And you know wodesorel you are right, I think that is how the pet stores operate sadly! This isn't my first time keeping fish, I had oscars that lived for a very long time and other numerous fish, but never this many at one time. Hmm...do you think I could put these fancy goldfish in an outdoor pond this spring/summer? My parents have a big one, maybe I could rehome them there and hopefully find another tank to home them in the winter.
I am also definately doing to get some live plants to help! Right now they are fake plants, mostly for sparkles because she loves to hide from the other fish sometimes lol
And you're right, when I first got Sparkles she was housed in a one gallon tank, because I was always wrongly taught they do ok like that with no heat, filter, or bubbler, and she was absolutely miserable! Poor thing the only time she perked up was when I would change her water. Then I finally smartened up and decided I would trying put her with, and at the time I only had my tropical fish, and she livened right up!
It's going to take a little time sadly but eventually I will get this right

[wodesorel]

I just realized - did you know that Sparkles is a boy? Females have extremely short fins. If it was a gal, she'd have no trouble with the currents from the filter. It's the males with the massive fins that can have trouble swimming around in still water.

Foam is cheap! I like this stuff, and it can be cut to size to fit anything. It comes in different sized blocks for the different sized filters, but I buy the largest ones when they're on sale and then chop it up for whatever I need. Makes a great cover for the tube intakes on filters, to keep small things from getting sucked in. : http://www.petsmart.com/fish/filter-med ... %3Dfaceted

What kind of fancy goldfish? In Ohio so long as the pond at least 3 feet deep comets and other "normal" shapes can stay outside all year long. Not sure what the recommendations are for Maine. I know in some climates people set up kiddie pools or big beat-up glass tanks in the basement to overwinter them. Some of the more deformed varieties of goldfish are a bit more delicate.