Corn snake *tank upgrade plans 4/23/15*

[wodesorel]

I made a huge mistake early on with Stan without thinking - I let him roam around the room, and I didn't cover over Ine's (the grey frog) tank first. She saw him on the floor and almost killed herself trying to break out of her tank to get away from him. She ended up with a injured hand that bothered her for about a week. I have to cover her tank with a sheet now when he's out and I have her tank facing the wall all the time so she can't spot him, and I'm going to bring her downstairs to the bedroom later this summer so no accidents happen again. He's never noticed her though, not once. I did have a rescued toad in the room for a few day last month, and for whatever reason the toad didn't notice him, but oooh Stan certainly noticed the toad! He paced his tank the entire time trying to figure out how to go eat the toad. :roll: I think he was also trying to figure out how to get through the glass to eat Peach last week when they saw each other for the first time. Peach was extremely curious, but not exactly scared - she ate right after he was put away, so I'm not too worried leaving them in the same room, though I double check the locks every day just for peace of mind since I know he would eat her if he could get to her. Mixing predators & prey is an interesting experience. You never can quite guess how they'll respond.

Peach is only 324 grams, by the way. 600 for a big adult female I think is supposed to be good. If you have any worries about her weight, post photos over at Reptile Forum UK (RFUK). They'll let you know in no uncertain terms if your snake is a fatty. I personally was glad for the wake up call - I didn't realize how chubby Stan had got, and extra weight isn't good for a snake. I go by a modified Munson feeding plan now for Peach, and adjusted what Stan is getting so they get fed at the same time (since Peach will now only eat chick scented mice....) : http://www.thecornsnake.co.uk/forum/top ... C_ID=27833 Stan gets too aggressive anyway if I wait 10 days between meals and he will only eat chicks which means a normal meal would be two at once, and Peach does so much better with tinier meals, so I split the difference and they get half-sized meals every 5 days. (A weaned mouse is 13 grams and Peach should be getting 25 grams every 10 days. A chick is around 26 grams and Stan should be getting around 50 grams every 10 days.)

[CallaLily]

Poor froggy. Lizard was trying to eat Sylvie but I'm sure one or the other could have ended up hurting themselves. Lizard doesn't seem to notice the mice and as far as I can tell they don't notice him either. I may just put something to block their view just in case. I make a point of keeping the snake and the mice on opposite ends of the house though, trying to avoid added stress for all of them.

My husbands been feeding her a small rat (around 40g) every 2 weeks. I've read that rats are fattier and most feel shouldn't be fed to corn snakes. Opinions on that? The mice we were finding were pretty small - mainly what they have pictured as medium - but even the large seemed too small.

Thanks for that chart. I came across a similar one trying to figure it all out but that one has loads more information.

[Crabinski]

What about Contact paper for the outside of her hide? It's thin, tacky, easy to cut and comes in lots of designs.

[CallaLily]

I thought about it but so many warn against using anything tape-like in their tanks, I'm not sure. I'll see if I can find more info on it. Thank you.

Wode, I've been looking at that whole loaf of bread thing and Sylvie. I do think she does look slightly more rounded (though not like some pics I'm seeing). I think I'll definitely discuss going back to large mice with my husband instead of small rats, since the rats are fattier. Maybe 1-2 large mice every two weeks? See how she looks after a while on that and adjust as necessary. I wish I had weighed her when we got her so I'd have a better understanding of where she's at. I remember someone had said two adult mice every 10 days sounded like overfeeding and that's the schedule her previous owner had her on. Hard to believe she's been with us almost a year. That puts her at or close to 2.5 years old (or more).

[wodesorel]

It's an old myth - rats and mice are the same nutritionally once you take size into account: http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp The only difference is in the vitamins and minerals, but a good reptile multivitamin will take care of those differences.

I would think that two adult mice every 10 days for a corn that size is overkill. That was what Stan was getting when we couldn't get small rats, and he plumped up quick! But increasing their food amount also increases their growth rate when they're younger, and some owners like to do that to make them big as fast as possible. With Stan, once I knew what to look for, it was obvious he was rotund. He had a huge line of demarcation between his plump body and his skinny tail. It should be more gradual in a proper sized snake. Honestly, I probably keep Peach on the plump end of things. I'm having to watch closely now that she's recovered to make sure she doesn't get too thick, but with her it's almost impossible to tell. She's missing her tail (almost positive it from a bad shed), and there's no straight stretch on her body to tell if she's concave or convex!

The time does go fast! We had Stan a year in March.

[CallaLily]

That makes me feel a little better. I don't think she's FAT....but maybe headed that way. I'll have to pay better attention to her weight from now on. How often is it a good idea to do weigh ins? So 1 large mouse or small rat every 14 days sounds about right? I'll be honest, the vitamins/minerals are over my head a bit. It'd probably be best to vary it any way so maybe I'll just start mixing it up more. I'm not sure I'll ever get the hang of this.

[wodesorel]

Yeah, 10 to 14 days is what most people do. See how she does - if she seems like she's fingers, it may be time to feed sooner. Corns are generally really docile though.

[CallaLily]

She really is a very calm snake for the most part. But the only real experience I have with snakes are the baby corn my son had before and a boa constrictor my mom babysat for 6 months when I was young. The baby was a bit of a spazz.

[wodesorel]

Thats why I went with adults - the babies are squirly, and they're escape artists! Stan has certainly been a learning experience, but he reminds me so of my cat Ruffy that I probably approach snakes a bit differently because of it. They're both quick to react, sensitive, never forget anything, and are wanting to bite now and then. It took years to break Ruffy of his biting habit and I got really good at recognizing the warning signs and dodging (because he snaps from happy to biting in a second), and for whatever reason those skill translate perfectly to the snake. I look at them like scaley limbless cats.

I'm not sure if it's because Peach is a corn, or because she was a former class pet, but she had a horrible shed after the mite medicine two weeks ago and I had to hand peel most of her old shed off when pieces were still stuck all over her after a couple of days. I know she couldn't have been comfortable with me handling and tugging, and I had to get it from around her mouth and her neck and everywhere, and she sat there for close to 10 minutes and didn't seem to mind and really didn't try to get or pull away. I kept figuring she'd get ticked at me and take a shot, but nope. Nothing. If all corns are like that, I understand the appeal!

[CallaLily]

and they're escape artists!

Yep. Learned that one the hard way. No more baby snakes here!

I look at them like scaley limbless cats.

This makes me giggle.

I know she couldn't have been comfortable with me handling and tugging, and I had to get it from around her mouth and her neck and everywhere, and she sat there for close to 10 minutes and didn't seem to mind and really didn't try to get or pull away. I kept figuring she'd get ticked at me and take a shot, but nope. Nothing. If all corns are like that, I understand the appeal!

She sounds like a sweetheart! I'm not sure Sylvie would be as patient.

[CallaLily]

So just a little update. Sylvie is doing great in the 55g! She is all over every inch of it. She loves to chill out "pool side" and also hangs out a lot in the humid bin underneath. The fact that it's see through doesn't seem to bother her in the least. She never skipped a beat with feedings either. Considering how stressed she was with the move to us, I was afraid she would have a similar reaction to the change in tank and location (opposite ends of the house).

I just wanted to post this because I know I've read a lot on snake forums that others find corns don't do well in larger tanks, especially glass aquariums. Not the case here.

[wodesorel]

I just wanted to post this because I know I've read a lot on snake forums that others find corns don't do well in larger tanks, especially glass aquariums. Not the case here.

According to the Europeans, that's an American myth to make people feel better about keeping them in shoeboxes.

[CallaLily]

According to the Europeans, that's an American myth to make people feel better about keeping them in shoeboxes.

Yeah I was trying to be nice. I think there's definitely something to them liking snug hides but I think somehow that mistakenly gets translated into "go ahead and cram your snake into this very small bin".

[wodesorel]

Whoops. Sorry! I've been told I have the gracefulness and tact of, and respect boundaries the same way as, a Labrador puppy.

Do you ever take her out to roam around? Stan basically begs to come out and explore when he sees me. Peach wants to as well, but she doesn't get around too good.

[CallaLily]

You're ok.

My husband and oldest son get her out and will take her outside if it's nice enough. We don't let her go too far in the house just because there isn't really a safe place in here for her to roam. I'd love one day to have a room I could make safe for that sort of thing!