Fishy Expert People

[KittyCaller]

I could use a little help in diagnosing a possible problem with one of my goldfishies. I have a young, orange, bubble-eyed fantail (I didn't at first notice he had bubble-eyes when I bought him, but that's another story) named J.J. that's starting to get a few black splotches. I know that color change isn't unusual in young goldies, but I'm also aware that black marks can be a sign of ammonia burns. I just want to make sure that's not what it is, and if it is, if someone has some advice for me. I've gone through quite a bit with J.J. When I brought him home, my tank was still cycling somewhat, and I didn't realize how bad that could be. While the other two fish handled it fine, he struggled and would sit on the gravel for a very long time, only swimming a few inches. I was almost convinced he wasn't going to make it. But I remembered hearing a little salt could help with a lot of problems, so I added some Doc Wellfish and did some water changes and checked the water quality. After I added the salt, he got better very quickly and is now very active and has the notorious goldfish appetite. However, not that long after that (He's been active for over over 2 weeks now) I noticed that his top "lip" has turned black, and he's got some black spots on fins and body, as well as his eyes somewhat. I don't know if it's scarring from a quick ammonia problem as the tank is finishing up cycling or if it's just normal color change. Just to be safe, I'm keeping a close eye on him and am still adding a bit of salt with my weekly water changes. The other two fish show absolutely no sign of the splotches. Um, my tank conditions are this: 10 gallon tank (am going to move up to a much longer, larger tank within a couple of months) 3 goldfish, with 1 adult oranda, and two young fantails. Ammonia levels have been a little unpredictable since the tank's been cycling, but I've been careful to check pretty frequently and do partial water changes when necessary. Sometimes when I've checked them, it's been at zero, and other times it's been high. Nitrates and Nitrites have also been varying with tests, but I've been doing water changes and keeping an eye on 'em. pH has been pretty stable at about 7.4 last time I checked, I do believe. I try to keep the water temp at about 68, but it's tough since the tank's under a window. That's going to be remedied very soon. Sorry for the long post, but I'd appreciate any help anyone can offer.

[kitty_LHC]

If the tank's cycling, there shouldn't be a continued fluctuation with the ammonia. On the other hand, I haven't cycled a tank with actual fish in it so that might be a side-effect. Seems reasonable enough--they eat, they poop, the nitrifying bacteria haven't grown to handle the bioload yet so the ammonia rises. Gee, I don't even know any freshwater fish forums to send you too. My best guess would be to add some Amquel or other ammonia reducing agent and keep up with the frequent water changes. What are the levels right now? I am no expert but I know someone who is--let me go see if he's on!

[kitty_LHC]

Fish guy's not around but I did some research--as I am sure you have too. I went to three sites and the all basically said that black spot was the healing process of an injury, a scab if you will. But you probably already know that. The two main causes are ammonia burns and alkilinity problems. Is 7.4 normal? It seems low to me but then again, I deal with much different fish. (I shoot for 8.2 in my tanks.) Glad to see you are testing the water. That's like when people come here to ask for help for their crabs but have no idea what the humidity and temp are. But, a lot of people don't test the water until it's too late. It seems like your fish is on the mend. How long has the tank been cycling? Are there three fish total or three plus the bubble-eye? I would continue with the salt and perhaps some Stress Coat. Goldfish are slimy guys. Good luck and I hope someone comes along who can be more helpful. Is Vintage Fish still around? She was always very helpful.

[KittyCaller]

Thank you for your help! 7.4 Is acceptable for goldfish, from the research I did. I have 3 fish total. I know it's a lot for a 10 gallon, but as I mentioned before, I am going to move to a bigger tank soon as possible. I was woefully ignorant for a long time when it came to the fish, but I've been doing my best to catch up and heal any damage I may have unintentionally caused. Hence the reason I got a whole new starter tank. I added some of the old water and was careful when I added my adult goldfish. (For a long time I had an oranda and black skirted tetra. Now my tetra's in my mom's nice big tropical tank and my goldfish has the two younguns to keep him company) I've started doing at least weekly tests since I got the new set up, and occasionally more often when I was trying to make sure the water change controlled the problems. I've been adding stresscoat and easy balance along with the salt when I do my water changes. Again, thanks so much for the help! Would adding a little Melafix help with ammonia burns, if that's what it is?

[kitty_LHC]

From what I've read (and remember I've only been reading for the past ten minutes or so) you should just maintain good water quality and let him heal. If you do feel the need to use Melafix I would recommend doing it in a hospital tank and not in the regular tank. It's supposed to be saef to use with other fish but I hate to treat a whole tank unnecessarily, especially since it's an antibiotic. You know what they say about antibiotics and overuse resulting in resistent strains of bacteria. I wouldn't use it. Then again, monitor the spots, if they seem to worsen it might be better to go ahead and treat.How's that for an answer? I wish someone more knowledgable was here. I know the position your in--I've been there. It really $ucks. Do you still have that blue goldfish you got at Wal-mart? Hey, can you post some pics? That might help with IDing the prob.

[KittyCaller]

No, the poor blue fish died some time back. It was probably because of how bad my water quality was back then (I had no idea it was that awful) Now I have J.J the little bubble eye, another young fan tail named Orange Crush after an REM song, and my big Oranda Fishy Fish, whom I think is 3 years old. And unfortunately I still can't find my stupid digicam. I'll keep looking for it though. Right now the splotches don't seem to be spreading and he doesn't seem to be in pain. Like I said, eating, following the other fish and just swimming around bein' a goldfish. SO much a difference from when all he would do is sit on the bottom like a rock. I really do appreciate the help. I've been doing my best to make up for past mistakes. Thankfully Fishy Fish is also doing very well. My old tank was so bad...poor thing. I'm striving to do better though.

[Hermie Luver]

Sorry for the late post. My mom made me go to bed at 9:45. Maybe you could put: Administrator of the Spork of Doom.OK about your fishy, go here (it's a freshwater forum. I post for problems, but not to help other people out 'cuz I'm already on this forum and the Green Anole Discussion forum so I don't really have time):The fishy forumHope it solves your problem (if you haven't already )

[Aviate]

How big are the goldies now? (forgive me if you said before, I didnt see..)I have one single imported japanese (black) moor in my ten gallon, so I cant say much about black spots, since hes already black. Non-Moors DO have color changes tho...I got him 2 yrs ago when he was the size of a quarter. He is now 6 inches big. I feel terrible that he is in a 10 gallon as it is.. I cant imagine 3 of them in there...I keep the tank empty except a plant and some river stones so he has more room to swim. (Also, he has two white cloud companions!) Get the ammonia cleared up immediately - put a 30 gallon filter on that tank until you upgrade. And do weekly 50% water changes. Also, ammolock could help, as could a pinch of doc wellfish now and then. the bigger tank is an immediate goal... I didnt realize how much it was necessary, coming from tropical fish. But goldies, especially fancy ones, are a whole other ball game and will not tolerate poor water conditions or overcrowding without coming down with a variety of skin ailments.p.s. youre right, the ph is fine.

[KittyCaller]

Well, my oranda from nose to base of fin is probably about five inches. Add another couple inches for the fin. The little guys are probably just under two inches each, fins included. I am going to get a nice large tank, a 29 gallon at the very least, this spring. I checked the water conditions again today. (water change on Thursday) and Ammonia was at zero, Nitrites were at either 1 or zero, Nitrates were at an acceptable level and pH was about 7.4 to 7.5 As I said, the tank was cycling and now appears to be finishing up now. I'll retest on Wednesday, which is my water change day, usually. (I test and then do the water change so I can make sure what the conditions are doing before hand)I did it late on Thursday this week, but I usually do it on Weds. J.J's appetite is still voracious, and he's been very active. The splotches don't look like they've spread or gotten any worse. It's kinda hard to describe without pics, so I apologize. Anyways, thanks very much.

[Aviate]

youre gonna have a nitrate explosion soon, tho. Goldies, especially big ones, need a bigger tank asap. I wouldnt wait much longer on that 29 gallon. The 10 isnt even big enough for the one big guy, much less with two others. Youve just cycled the tank.. thats why the readings are still good. but they wont stay that way for long at all. water changes are great, that will keep them somewhat stable in the mean time.as for the color changes, its so hard to say... it could be just a color change. does it look fuzzy or raised? if so, you could add some methylene blue salts... made by Jungle products (if you have no invertebrates in there). if not, lets hope its just a color change. they can even get white spots which are actually breeding tuburcles and harmless as they mature.

[KittyCaller]

It doesn't look fuzzy or raised, and may actually be fading a bit. They're mostly on his fins. Thanks again. Hopefully I'll get that 29 in a month or so.