Issues with a particular crab

Autiegirl1980 · Post by **Autiegirl1980** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:52 pm

Sorry in advance for the length... Please bear with me.I have no clue where else to post this as I have not been here in a good while. Ralph has struck again... Meaning he has killed twice now. We'll I am not positive he did this time but it is awful coincidental. The first time he shook Bob out of a shell and claimed it as his own. Bob refused to find a new shell, clung onto the old (with Ralph in it) and he switched after Bob finally died. This time is particularly upsetting as it was Baby, the one that started as a micro and grew to be as big as Ralph-5 years with no problems! Tonight, however, I decided they could both use some exercise... So I got Ralph out and he was just fine. I went to get Baby out and found him under the "pool" dead... Naked actually, with his shell buried into the Eco-earth just the way Ralph buries everything else.I am torn, now. He is now in a 40 gallon tank alone, but I know they like to have friends around. He left Baby alone for 5 years. Was this a fluke? I plan to rearrange the tank tomorrow all around, reboiling the shells and adding a bigger pool... Hopefully more climbing stuff to keep him busy and attempting to make a sectioned off "ISO" area in case he starts again. The thing is, I don't want to give him long enough with new surroundings to decide everything is his without giving anyone else a chance... But I am not sure it is a good idea to move everything and drop in a new guy on top of it. Are some crabs just kill-happy for lack of a better phrase? Will bringing in a new guy be good timing with new additions so he is busy exploring rather than seeing red?I was wondering of a temp divider net or something would work so they are not just completely separated. I guess I figure if he tries to dig under that to start trouble maybe he is the problem.

Crabber85 · Post by **Crabber85** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:04 am

@Autiegirl1980, I'm sorry to hear that your having such problems with your crabs but after reading your post it seems like your seeing something else besides aggression.When a hermitcrab molts then attempts to resurface and struggles it will often times dump the shell mid way up and either surface naked or only make so far and then pass due to a lack of energy which seems like what you've witnessed with Baby as you'll often times find the crab in the substrate near the shell.Since you would need to iso any new crabs in a separate enclosure for four weeks you would need to wait to redo the main enclosure until the new crab is done with its iso period in order to introduce it while the new decor design is still fresh.

Laurie LeAnn · Post by **Laurie LeAnn** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:25 pm

How long had it been since you had seen baby? Was the crab in a molt session, it was kind of hard to tell from your post. I read it over and I didn't see anything about a mention of molting but yet grabber said something about it? If it was a recent molt your crab still could be in a weakened state, if this is where he chose to resurface he could of been to weak to dig out and died or or if it was post molt and was still weak he may of been bullied and buried to get away and left his shell cause he can't support it. Things that may of weekend him, diet, temp, day / night cycles, humidity over time not being constant. Some crabs are bully butts when others come up from moors, I have one! He will attack them and want to eat them, he don't care about the shells. I have found it helps to take the molter out and iso it for a day then everyone gets a bath in their water so everyone smells the same. The bully will walk over kind of smell him and crawl over him..sorry you lost a crab. I have lost a few to in the past to my bully and to post molt.

Autiegirl1980 · Post by **Autiegirl1980** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:30 pm

Oddly, Baby had just been out early that morning. It was around 8:00 a.m. when I saw him and he was usually a day time crab as strange as that may seem. So I suppose he may have started to molt but it was around 9:30 p.m. When I found him. I am starting to think maybe he is just a bully. When I got Baby he fit on the tip of my pinky and still had a little room to move. He has molted many many times and there has never been an issue. When we lost Bob, he was out in the open and Ralph came up behind him and shook him out of his shell, put it on, wore it for a day with poor Bob clinging onto it... Then just switched back into his old one once Bob died. It is upsetting because I know they are fairly social and like having others around. So... Then it's like, "do I get another crab so he doesn't die from loneliness?", "will he just do it to the next one too?", "is it even possible to have another with him in there?" He did that to Bob about 4 years ago then went to minding his own business. Back to normal just like that. So he and Baby got along just fine. Then one morning I see Baby doing just fine, coming out to say hello and that same night he's nakie and dead. It is just odd because it is kind of what happened to Bob with the same crab involved.So I guess I need to know if you all think it is even worth trying another or should I change Ralph's name to Hannibal and start calling the crabitat "the hole"? Pardon the jokingness of it... I just have no clue what to think. We had others pass but it was normal. Just nothing that odd and they always last years and years. This didn't start until Juliette passed from a poor molting session. She was the largest. After that it was Ralph, Bob (a little smaller than Ralph), and then Baby (whom had just achieved ALMOST as big as Ralph status).Is he just weeding out the smaller or am I judging him due to witnessing his cruelty with Bob?It may be worth noting my assumptions of Ralph comes from a history of shell-thieving and burying whatever he can't use. I know that is normal but I have seen crabs being wishy-washy about a shell and he has taken them away and buried them while the hermit is still checking it out. It used to be funny... But not so much anymore.Again sorry for the length of this... I am a talker (when it comes to writing at least).

Crabber85 · Post by **Crabber85** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:15 am

@Auttiegirl1980, It almost sounds like your having an issue based solely on shells so my question is how many spare shells do you have and what size are they?If there aren't enough suitable shells available this can incite aggression and can cause fights.When a hermitcrab buries an empty shell it's because the shell is not usable and this is completely normal behavior.Diet, shell availability and space are all triggers for aggression and can be easily addressed.If it were diet related the victims would be ripped apart, scattered around the enclosure and consumed but since you haven't seen this I'm not leaning towards this being the culprit.Hermitcrabs actually need a lot of space because they regularly travel several miles in a day in their native habitats so they have a built need to move and if their enclosures don't provide enough space they can become aggressive as a result.So my question here is how large is your enclosure?

Autiegirl1980 · Post by **Autiegirl1980** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:39 am

It's a 40 gallon tank with several layers built in. I would post pics but I'm on a friend's computer atm and don't have any, and when I post from my other friend's phone the pics are too big to post it says. I wish I had normal internet at my own home, lol, but we live in the boonies so I'm reliant on what I can find out elsewhere. Luckily I have friends who don't mind me hogging up their comps for a little bit Ralph's issues seem to be fairly new. I know I'm new to the forum, but I've had hermit crabs for over 6 years now without issues like this. I was actually on this forum about 5 years ago or so when I got Baby, showing off my little micro crab because he was so cute I just can't remember my old login info. These problems seem to solely revolve around Ralph. I fixed up his tank a bit different last night to see if I could help his "anxiety" I guess I would call it for his climbing and restless issues he's seemed to develop, but he had absolutely NO INTEREST in the new stuff I added, aside from the japanese zen garden waterfall (wires all hidden of course), and that was momentary... he was interested for about a minute then started looking for escapes. I scrubbed the thing and everything, added all kinds of new stuff, made way more room to roam, etc., and tried to let him come out and hang out with us for a bit... he still wouldn't come out of the shell and wanted nothing to do with walking around. He just sat there for 20 minutes without even so much as sniffing around. Just hiding....and it's odd because it's a wholly new behavior for him. He was fine and nice to the others and never had an issue until the crab that was bigger than him passed on. Now it seems anybody smaller than him mysteriously dies. One was natural, but the event with Bob was actually kind of morbid to watch. At that time we had about 20 shells the same exact size as Bob's shell... he could have picked any of them. They were all clean, new, I made sure no chips and such were on them, as far as I could see at least.I did extensive research as to crabitats and behaviors and all well before getting any of them, and the tank was set up well in advance, lol. I have 2 kiddos and sometimes people say I do more for the crabs than my own kids, ha! Ralph's behavior has just become so bizarre so fast. I'm not sure what his deal is. He's got vines, nets, ropes, cholla wood, etc. to climb, but he is trying to climb everything else possible instead. He has escaped the aquarium 3 or 4 times, and I take him out every day to let him run, but he won't. He just sits there once he's out of the tank, and hides under his shell. It's really odd.When the others start acting odd here and there, it's usually fairly easy to keep them entertained and readjust things, check them out, let them exercise, interact with them a lot, and it helps. Ralph will try to pinch anyone who handles him, has ripped up carpet off of the floor, and has almost pulled skin off of my hand just from picking him up. He hides in his shell and reaches around until he finds a hand and grabs on. He's not even out looking, just reaching.Is it possible for a crab to just undergo a whole personality change? I'm so worried about getting him a tank mate. I have TONS of shells in there (he shell shops regularly but always sticks with the same one, which is a bit too big for him but he likes it), lots of variety when it comes to diet... they have roly polys in there with them since they shed their exoskeletons as well to help prevent them from going after one another. There are LOTS of hiding places, a second level, climbing stuff, plants and such all over, a big pool of water with plenty of ways out... these guys even have a zen garden waterfall type of thing that they love. My kids say they'd like to live in there. I have Eco earth substrate, over double the height of Ralph so he can dig down deep... I wash their food dishes every day and put something new in all the time. They also have one of those calcium bone things in there.... and surprisingly, the entire middle is pretty open. It's set up so they can go from the hidey place heating side and walk across the open to the water area.It's just so incredibly odd, because he didn't even want Bob's shell.... he just wore it until Bob died. He doesn't eat any of the ones that have died, or try to dig them up or anything. I just found Baby when I was looking for him and he was still buried, just... gone. At first I freaked out thinking I disturbed a molt, but he smelled... really bad, like he'd been under there days. So I'm not positive Ralph was necessarily the one who did that. I'm just overly cautious when it comes to him because he does tend to be aggressive and after watching what happened with Bob (that was REALLY depressing watching him ride around on Ralph's back for a day and refusing to go into another shell.... he just died, laying on that shell... once I took him out, Ralph went back to the old shell he was in).... I'm not so trusting of him anymore.I just can't figure out what the deal is with him. Could it be dominance? I know other animals do that, and people can be that way, so could crabs as well? I'm sorry I always respond so lengthy-it's like thinking out loud to some extent... a lot of analyzing really.

Crabber85 · Post by **Crabber85** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:33 am

@Autiegirl1980, we have notice over the years that some hermitcrabs will act normal for months even years then they molt and something happens during that process that makes them more shy and a lot more aggressive and in some instances another molt fixes the issue but not always and its unfortunate because we just don't understand enough about how the hormones responsible for inducing or inhibiting a molt alter the brains chemistry in crustaceans and so a lot goes unexplained when we feel a molt was the culprit.This is not an unusual phenomenon and has been witnessed by multiple members of this community and others.It very well could be a dominance issue which this kind of problem is usually quickly sorted out and surprisingly it's not always the larger crab that emerges victorious.I have personally witnessed my smaller crabs claiming dominance over my larger crabs and this typically happens when one crab is successful in climbing up on and staying atop the victims shell and basically riding on the victim until such time the victor feels the point has been sufficiently made.Dominance is often times established to antenna fights or even leg flaring neither form of contact is harmful to either crab as it is more so for show kind of like a Peacocks plumage.It has been noticed before that there is always an alpha or dominant who settles all disputes between the other tank mates and this dominant position is usually held by a female interestingly enough so its not odd that your previously shy/docile hermit has turned bully now that the alpha is not there to bring order to the caos.Essentially the bully has been bumped up in position within the cast(this terms refers to a group of hermitcrabs)and has not taken the change well and so attacks any newcomers when the chance presents because it does not want the alpha position taken away.Basically what I'm saying is your hermitcrab is on a power trip and in instances like this the bully can be caused to back down if you can take the victim preferably before it becomes the victim and actually cause it to hit or bump the bully with its predominant walking leg as this will constitute a challenge to the bully which will cause the bully to stop its aggressive behaviors.If that doesn't work you can also bathe the bully and the newcomer in the same dish of lukewarm dechlorinated salt water using their salt, this should cause both hermits to essentially smell the same which has been proven to stop aggression from the bully.Are you offering both fresh and salt water in the enclosure?Are you covering all of the required nutritional bases ie: proteins, healthy fats/oils, cellulose(fiber), chitin(hardening agent), calcium and nitrogen(a key nutrient to successful molts)?If just one thing is missing from the crabs diet it can cause the crab to become physically aggressive as a lack of nutrients causes issues with the crabs brain chemistry.

Autiegirl1980 · Post by **Autiegirl1980** » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:17 am

Oh yes, they have both fresh and salt water available-that was one of the first things I learned when figuring out what to do with a crabitat As far as foods, they have just all kinds of things. Last night, it was broccoli, baby food bananas, and chicken and green beans or something like that, also baby food. I also have a small shell with honey in it, and one of those bird calcium bone things. When I make good meals, they always get a chunk of chicken (with no seasonings or anything), veggies, etc. Nitrogen... I'm not good with sciencey stuff-what kinds of foods would provide that necessarily? I actually used to have a notebook full of safe foods, including preservatives to avoid and such. Usually I go organic anyway, and make sure to avoid certain things.... I need to get that list again, lol.But they are offered different foods every single day-never the same over and over unless Ralph hoards it in the substrate. I still am not sure where he stashes things, lol. And of course, they have the roly polys to chomp down on, which I assumed would work for chitin. Are there any things in particular that I may be missing? I can't be sure, because I do switch their food so often to keep it from getting bored. I give all kinds of different things, and try every single day to give new stuff. Then there are the times it goes 2 or 3 days before new foods, because I start thinking maybe I'm just confusing them by switching it all the time.If there is any particular food that you can think of that they should have I will add it to the list. Currently in their "food drawer", I have vienna sausages, canned ham, tuna, baby food carrots, baby food bananas, baby food mixed veggies, baby food apples and cherries, baby food chicken and green beans (I think it is), fruit wheels, and honey.I try not to give them too much as far as carbs... but he really has just gotten mean. I think dominance would really make sense because Baby was our little social bug. He was completely passive, LOVED attention from us, and would hide or stay away from food until after Ralph ate.It's a bummer if he's just gotten plain mean and is just that way now. I plan on getting him 2 friends after Christmas.... hopefully getting a chance to check to see if I can find a female bigger than Ralph, lol. Juliette really kept all of that to a minimum, but you know how pet shops go... don't always get enough time to really get a chance to see, or you are lucky if they come out at all, lol. I'd love to get a micro as well, but as far as Ralph's Christmas present, he's getting at least a few buddies to hopefully get him back on track. He was never the absolute friendliest, but he seemed happier when there were more crabs there. Once Juliette died, he hid... for a long time. Then went after Bob for some reason.... so once it was just him and Baby, it took a while, but Baby was so passive with him and just let him run the show....I noticed today, since re-doing the crabitat, he seems to be looking for something. Maybe he didn't kill Baby... I'm sure I just assumed due to Bob. But, he looks lonely. He isn't even interested in the climbing, or the new hiding spots, or the waterfall or anything.... he just sits in the corners, wandering from corner to corner, searching through the shells, then hiding in his shell.Maybe I'm projecting too much human emotion onto him, lol.

Crabber85 · Post by **Crabber85** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:47 am

@Autiegirl1980, you really want to avoid canned foods due to the leeching process that happens essentially the metal of the can leeches into the food in the can over time which can build up to toxic levels, effect molts and growth rates and even cause erratic behaviors.Check all ingredients labels if you notice things like ethoxyquin, copper sulfate, iron sulfate, ferrous sulfate or even sodium contents over 25mgs then you'll need to forgo the food as it isn't safe.You can always tell if extra table salt has been added to the food as it will show in the sodium content in the ingredients list as a value higher than 25mgs.Table salt is toxic to hermitcrabs because this kind of salt typically has anti-caching ingredients added that are synthetic and extremely harmful.Nitrogen is a key compound found in most plant material and can be offered through rolled oats, maple leaves/bark and limbs from untreated trees and yards.Offer rolled oats or maple leaves at least once every three days to keep the nitrogen level up in the crabs system as without it the crab has a much harder time molting and in worse case scenarios has led to crabs getting stuck in their own old exo as the new limbs were still semi attached to the old outer layer and this is essentially a death sentence for the poor crabs.I'm sure Ralph is experiencing loneliness as hermitcrabs are hard wired from birth to be social creatures as they need to be in large groups to guarantee shell availability, protection from predators and increased odds of successful copulation.In the wild a hermitcrab who is on his/her own has a significantly less chance of survival than those who stay in large groups.Captive hermits still have this hard wired instinct to be in groups for the above mentioned reasons and so when they are forced to be alone for long periods of time they go through a re-wiring process to help them cope/deal with being alone which turns off the need to be in groups and causes a lot of undesirable behaviors most noticeably aggression and violent outbursts when any newcomers are introduced.Since Ralph has already been on his own he may have already started the re-wiring process so I would strongly advise that close attention be payed to the enclosure and the new additions as he may lash out suddenly and with no provocation.

Autiegirl1980 · Post by **Autiegirl1980** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:43 pm

wow! Thanks for all the info on the food. I'm going to get Ralph a couple of friends this week, actually, so hopefully that will help him cope much better. He's just kind of... sad looking right now. Luckily, I posted here the night I found Baby, so it hasn't been too long, and I plan to have the others by mid next week I'll definitely watch them very close, though, when they are out of iso and into the tank with him. I'm hoping if I can get friends in with him soon enough he won't have too hard of a time adjusting once they are there. He definitely looks... lonely. I could be projecting human emotion onto him, for sure, but it seems to me he is. He has all this to climb, to be active, to check out... yet, he keeps searching hiding spot to hiding spot, turning shells around and around and looking in corners... just kind of lethargic all of a sudden.You have all been such a tremendous help in everything, so I'm soooo glad I came back to the forum. It would have been easier had I remembered my old info, lol.We have maples in our yard, and lots of oats and such as we have many different animals at our house, so that should not be much of a problem. I need to find that huge notebook I had a while back with my good vs. bad list of things, as I'm sure I've ventured from it a little bit-not a lot, but here and there is enough for something as tiny as a hermie to make a big difference in.Thanks again for all of the advice and I will definitely watch close when others are introduced, as well as watch what I'm giving them a bit closer.