Booklice in My Tank

Jedediah · Post by **Jedediah** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:53 am

Yes, that's what my friend said, too. But fleas are flattened, not round. And their legs would be much bigger. Apart from that, they wouldn't survive on invertebrate blood (I dount they would try to feed on the crabs at all).

Jedediah · Post by **Jedediah** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:22 pm

I read tons of entomology book lately and somehow I'm still no wiser - at least about your bugs. While I still believe that Gertie's bugs are springtails, I think your bugs might be a kind of beetle. No apterygota (primitive insects) I came across had those additional set of antennas.There's a family of beetles called Staphylinidae that have short wings hidden under short, hard covers (there's a word those those, but I can't find it in English...) and some of those are really tiny, feed on plant matter ect. and they do have those antennas. They look much more like the bug in your drawing than any other insect I found, although i didn't find one that looked exactly like it (I'm still searching).What toys and hiding places do you have in your crabitat? I guess they lay their eggs somewhere well hidden, maybe inside a porous piece of cork bark.

Aviate · Post by **Aviate** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:35 am

Oh gosh, what DONT I have in that tank? Ive got some incredible warehouse of crab supplies in that tank. (I know they cant ever be bored!!) Grapevine Wood, resin caves, shell formations, cholla, driftwood, plastic plants, the list is endless. Aragonite and tiny gravel... food, of course.. wheeeeeSo, what do you think I should do? This is the third infestation. (that I know of)

Jedediah · Post by **Jedediah** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 4:45 am

I think you need to take out everything and put it in sealed bags for at least a month. Change the substrate, wash out the tank with vinegar/bleach and bathe the crabs. Then give them new toys ect. After one months, the eggs should have hatched I guess and you can see where they come from if they do lay their eggs into any of the toys. Maybe the eggs can withstand baking, insect eggs can be quite hardy, that's why I thought of the bag-method. I'm not sure if it helps, but probably you will be able to see where the bugs come from (unless they wander in from outside the tank, but I don't think so).

Jedediah · Post by **Jedediah** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:34 pm

I just thought of something: if the bugs wander in from outside the tank, creating a vaseline barrier around the top of the tank might help. Just smear it on the glass around the top, inside and outside. I don't think it's harmful for the crabs even when they touch it, but just to be on the safe side, it should be out of reach. Many insects cannot cross such a barrier.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:16 am

Bugs! Eeek!If you can't get rid of them by cleaning, finding a predator of your pests might be the way to get them in check.There's a very tiny predatory mite called Hypoaspis miles. It would not attack your crabs, but lives in moist soil, is very fecund, and will eat soil dwelling and pupating pests, such as fungus gnats and probably the larval stages of your beetles/springtails.Hypoaspis will feed on detritus and algae in the absence of prey. They're great little critters.They cost $25.62 for 12,500 at:http://www.shopgreenmethods.com/Sometimes fighting fire with fire is the only way.

Jedediah · Post by **Jedediah** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:22 pm

If they really are beetles, they are not harmful, feeding on decaying matter, plants ect. (like the crabs do) and some species hunt tiny invertebrates. But none of them is a parasite. Those predatory mites sound like a very good idea, although of course you will have 1mm mites in your tank instead of the bugs. But at least you KNOW what they do in there.

Aviate · Post by **Aviate** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:49 am

this could be them then. I really cannot see them with the naked eye at all unless the tank light is on, and I use a flashlight pointed directly at the glass. I can just see what looks like a half sand grain on the glass or whathaveyou. But if I stare at it, I can see it isnt stationary... but moving slowly. so, if thats what it is, what does that mean?

Jedediah · Post by **Jedediah** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:00 am

quote:Originally posted by Aviate:this could be them then. Your bugs are definitely insects and cannot be Hypoaspis mites. I'm quite sure they are harmless, whatever they are. Try the plastic bag-method, I think this will at least help to find out where they come from.I'm really thinking about studying entomology now. Just kidding, but I am learning so much while looking for your bugs - at least something positive about all this

Jedediah · Post by **Jedediah** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:59 am

I said they might be kind of beetle (Staphylinidae), Hypoaspis are the predatory mites Kerie recommended PLastic bag method (on page six in this thread): take all the toys, hiding places ect. out of the crabitat and put each in a sealed plastic bag for at least four weeks. Clean out the crabitat, bathe the crabs and give them new substrate and toys. That way, you can see where the bugs come from, if they lay their eggs into the toys, the choya or something.

Jedediah · Post by **Jedediah** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:49 pm

But if they really lay their eggs into some of the toys, you could get rid of them. It would take some time and lots of tank cleanings, but still. Try it to see if there appear bugs in the plastic bags. If they do, take all the toys out every two weeks and put them in plastic bags for 4-6 weeks (sine I don't have a clue how long those bugs take to develope, better six), too, and clean the tank. Eventually all the new bugs would have hatched inside the bags. This would mean keeping the crabitat very sparse for some time, but I think this would work unless they come from somewhere else.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 7:02 am

Avi... I posted on HCA but I thought Id post on here too.. I just moved house and my lil "sand" bugs are back with a vengeance.. so i stripped out my tank.. again... Vaccumed.. cleaned.. New FB.. new crushed coral mixed with marine sand.. and guess what.. they are back...I have switched out toys... Boiled all toys etc... washed n better washed...i figured they are natural bugs as I KNOW they arent bugging the crabs as if these bugs fall into the water i can see them.. and i have bathed Peanut lately due to his illness and I see abosolutly No bugs on him...none.. so i figured they were matter munchers.. and without a natural predator they boomed.. well cause of our move we had to get some boxes outta a shed we were storing them in and had a few hitch hikers.. lady bugs that settled into the shed right before the big freeze.. hehehe.. poped one in at lunch.. been putting them outside.. but i figure.. lady bugs are predatory insects.. lets see what she can do..i shall let ya know.. if it works.. you want some ladies sent to ya?

kuplakrabs · Post by **kuplakrabs** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:13 am

I did find out that there are about 3200 species (Pscoptera-Liposcelidae) worldwide and around 245 in North America. I had both the wingless and ones with two pair of reduced wings in my tank. They are currently inhabitants of my cork bark-which is how I suspect mine got into my tank. I found small silk like areas inside the cork bark and have read that they live in small colonies inside these "gossamer blankets".According to most of the sites I visited, they live just about everywhere including damp books, on mold growth near leaking or sweating pipes, in window & door voids, storage trunks, groceries, rugs, cardboard cartons, leaf litter, mammal nests, tree bark, rock surfaces and the list goes on. Basically any where that is humid and warm that can readily support mold & fungi growth these little buggers can be found. Typically the bark lice are larger, fully winged and live outdoors and the book lice are smaller, with either no wings or reduced wings and live indoors. Since they are not true lice, there is no threat to the crabs, to humans and animals, or your home. In addition, they don't spread any kind of disease. They actually can be considered beneficial in the control of mold as long as they don't become too plentiful and you can live with bugs in your tank The only way to eventually get rid of them is to lower and keep the humidity below 50%. Since this is not possible in the tank, I suspect the only way would be to completely bake everything and let it dry for a long period of time. However, I believe I read that Aviate did take steps to erradicate them and they came back...I ended up purchasing a small microscope with 100x power to be able to positively id them...I'm fairly confident, after looking at your picture and asking Jedediah what she thought, that they are Pscopetera.

kuplakrabs · Post by **kuplakrabs** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:13 am

In the tank, some are so small that you would probably have a hard time making a positive ID unless you have some sort of magnifying glass or microscope.Here are a few sites that have some reading about them and other bugs http://godofinsects.com/museum/small.ph ... cop~1.html

Aviate · Post by **Aviate** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:13 am

I baked and boiled and bleached everything that wasnt breathing, and I replaced the substrate too. When that didnt work, I bought a whole new tank and its innards. Still, more bugs. Oh well, guess theyre not going to go away... I try to keep them somewhat under control by dumping the substrate every so often, but they always come back. Again, they dont appear to be affecting the crabs, since Ive had them a year and no deaths, so eh... just very unsightly... and since I am an insect hater (sorry Jed!) they gross me out when I see them. But if they arent hurting the crabs I am no longer panicked about them at least.