Booklice in My Tank

Aviate · Post by **Aviate** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:05 am

Hubby found his microscope - these bugs are 1/20 of an inch or less, have a round head, a small "breast" area, and pear shaped body. Theres 6 jointed legs, 4 antennas (two facing front which are heavily segmented, and two facing sides). theyre off white, have cilia on their behind/butt. the legs have two or three segments. The body has a small stomach area btwn the head and oval shaped body. The body has two big segments and one small middle segment.they look like they could be the springtails you listed on your guide to bugs in the crabitat, but I cant tell, the picture is too small. Do you have a better picture of springtails?also, what do I do? ack!

Aviate · Post by **Aviate** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:16 am

It is hard to identify body segments, that one in the middle is confusing. Does each segment have to move independantly? The middle breast section doesnt move, it appears attached. However, there is definitely a carapace (?) of some sort.I wonder if I could mail you one, and if so, how I would do it?

Jedediah · Post by **Jedediah** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:19 am

Oookay, so they are not mites, but insects. They don't have wings, don't they? Some insects can hide their wings in a sort of pouch, but you'd be able to see the pouch on their back. If you can't see anything like that, they truly don't have wings and are so-called primitive insects, Apterygota. They might be springtails (look for a fork under their belly, not all springtails have one, but most do). Here's some more info about them:http://www.collembola.org/Some Apertygota are predators, but they hunt smaller animals and don't feed on bigger insects/invertebrates (as far as I know). I tend to say that the bugs are harmless, although I'm not sure why they don't leave the crabs. I suspect they might feed on the feces and find it comfortable inside the dark and humid shell.Um, the body segments don't have to move, sometimes they are not even really clearly visible. Look at some of the pics in the link, some look like they have just one or two body segments.I have no idea how to conserve something so small. Insects are often put into synthetic resin, but I don't think this is really an option. Alcohol might work, but it might as well destraoy the bug. I'll give this some thought. But it might be better to send this to some real expert, at a university or museum, who is knowledgeable about primitive insects.

Aviate · Post by **Aviate** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:24 am

Thanks for the quick reply- I was practically jumping up and down when I saw you were online.They dont have wings. All the legs start at the middle breast section, there are no legs that protrude from the back "body" part. I am not sure if I am looking at the right thing on the site you sent me, the diagram on that link shows a back 4th set of legs... these dont have any legs in the back, they have 6. Thoughts?Are these springtails? What gets rid of them?Ive been finding them on the glass and in empty shells, and on the cholla wood. I saw one on a crab. Can you PM me your email address, by the way?

Jedediah · Post by **Jedediah** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:32 am

The last set of legs aren't legs but the fork they use to jump. It may not be so easily visible, but most springtails have it. I PMed you

Aviate · Post by **Aviate** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:36 am

thanks, I appreciate it greatly.They SEEM like springtails, as youve been saying all along. I do find them more on the tank acoutrements than on the crabs themselves. When I saw one on the crab, he was running in circles. I saw some nymphys in there that looked just like the adults only smaller, and I BELIEVE the tiniest one had a darker colored head, though it was hard to tell. Will these kill the crabs? I dont know what to do- if I should destroy everything and bathe the crabs many times, or if that wont even help. Right now there are a LOT of these insects, and I am panicked.

Jedediah · Post by **Jedediah** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:38 am

So they do leave the crab. Gertie's bugs don't, I guess I'm a bit confused If you find them in the crabitat, I'm even more inclined to say they are springtails. The link is all about them (springtails are also called collembola). You can try to desinfect the whole tank, throwing out all the substrate ect. But I don't think you need to, springtails only feed on decaying matter. I have lots of springtails in my crabitat and they don't bother the crabs but keep the tank clean. But cleaning out the tank should at least get rid of most of them, I agree that too much of them are not so nice.

Jedediah · Post by **Jedediah** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:43 am

So no springtails. But they are definitely Apertygota, because all other insects have wings. I'll try to find a good site with Apertygota pictures, but it may take me a while.If they were parasitic, you would find a lot more on the crabs, probably sitting near the mouthparts and at the joints (the "weak" parts). Invertebrate blood isn't red, but colourless (as far as I know). I think they get on the crabs by accident and I don't think they are parasites.

Aviate · Post by **Aviate** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:07 am

theres one set of antenna and one set of something else- pinchers maybe? gonna try to post a pic now

Jedediah · Post by **Jedediah** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:16 am

Hmm. Looks like mouthparts. Very good picture, by the way. I need to do some research tomorrow and I think I'll try to find a book on Apertygota, but won't be able to go to the library until Wednesday.But as I said, I don't think they are harmful for the crabs.

Aviate · Post by **Aviate** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:21 am

Here's my drawing. The other one was my husband's rendition. His is better proportioned. Mine is not as accurate.But the top pair of protrusions are definitely pincers or mouth parts.

Jedediah · Post by **Jedediah** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:37 am

I made a mistake: primitive insects are called apterygota, not apertygota. At least I had all the letters right.I'm going offline now, need to get dressed (as in for a club, not as in I need to put on clothes ), I'll get back to this tomorrow.

Aviate · Post by **Aviate** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:42 am

the pictures I am seeing on line are showing very segmented bodies, with segments all through the abdomen. Hmm... perhaps I am looking at the wrong photos?If I dont clean them out, how do you know when youre "infested", for instance, what if I have TOO many of these and they overrun the tank? What keeps them in check?

Jedediah · Post by **Jedediah** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:01 am

I did look at some online resources on apterygota, but I didn't find anything similar to your bug yet. However, since they are wingless even as adults, they definitely are apterygota. I'm still looking for other websites and will try to find some books when I get tot he library.In the meantime: cleaning out the tank as you would do in case of a mite infestation should remove them or at least greatly reduce their number. I don't know how to keep them in check otherwise, maybe they could lured with some kind of food and trapped, but I need to give this some more thought.

GSnicklegrove · Post by **GSnicklegrove** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:00 am

The picture looks similar to a flea in one of my son's bug books, not that I think in any way I am right, lol. It did look similar, with the hair on the legs and rear, the different circled sections really drew my attention. What do you think Jedediah?