Trend of dead crabs - am I doing something wrong?

[PickYerPoison]

Hey. I'm really new to this stuff, and I've been having a problem with dead crabs. I've done as much research as I can online, and I think I've reached a point where I need professional advice. Here's a short history of my attempts:

Got three crabs on an impulse buy, bought a kit at the same store. Brought it home, investigated online, found out the kit was horribly inadequate (tiny space, dry sand, plastic container, lots of air holes), got an aquarium and fitted it out. Took almost a week for everything to get here, so the first crabs were under severe stress and unfortunately didn't make it. I feel really bad about that, but I know what went wrong there, so it's not the issue.

Fast forward. Got a few more crabs. First batch, two of them. One buried himself in the substrate right away - I assumed molting. The other ended up not making it, and I don't really know why. When I disposed of him I carefully dug up the buried one only to find him wiggling at me irritably, so I hastily buried him again. To my knowledge, he is still down there - I'm going to check on him a full six weeks after I initially found him (I have an alarm set to remind me) and I'll see if he's still alive at that point. If he is, I'll leave him down there and check again in another few weeks.

Next set: I bought three crabs this time. One of them did the same thing and buried himself, the other two kinda walked around and settled. One of them was near the water dishes, and eventually I had to pick them up to clean some gunk out of them, so I tried to carefully move him - and he just fell out of his shell, extremely dead. That was within four days of getting him! Probably three, if he died in the night. The third was alive still, but I also noticed that he was missing two legs - which I had not caught onto at the pet store. But I didn't see them dropped in the tank, so I can only assume I was just negligent and didn't see them lost in the store.

And this is me now, with the status of the three remaining crabs:
Aiai: buried himself weeks ago. I've set an alarm to remind me to check on him.
Dino: buried himself a few days ago. Same as above.
Valentine: behaving oddly. I'm worried about him.

I'm including some pictures of my crabitat and it would be fantastic if anyone could tell me if I'm doing anything wrong. I don't understand if I'm treating them wrong, and at this point I feel it must be my fault so many crabs are dying, and I don't want to throw more of them into the "grinder" to test it.

For substrate, I'm using both Eco-Earth (purchased at my pet store) and beach sand (purchased at Lowes). I picked the beach sand so that they would have calcium to eat, since I've read that beach sand includes ground up bits of shells and stuff like that.

I've been trying my best to keep the temperature inside at ~72-78F (with a small heater on one side, ZooMed UTH) and 75-85 relative humidity (with very occasional spraying as needed). I monitor these with a hygrometer, also by ZooMed. As a college student, I'm home most of the day, so I can keep a close eye on the crabitat and make sure it stays in the right ranges, so any tests that need constant/regular monitoring or anything are absolutely fine.

For reference, here is what I've been using to feed/water them:

Water: "Great Value Spring Water"
As far as I know, this doesn't contain fluoride or chlorine. I taste-tested it to be safe and couldn't identify any weird chemical taste, but I realize that's not necessarily an indicator. If there's any reason it might contain anything toxic, or if another reason can't be suggested, I'm going to go ahead and get dechlorination drops, or whatever they're called, using the products suggested here. I'll call my water utility company before doing it to make sure I know what's in the water so I can get the appropriate product!

For the saltwater bath, I use "Jungle Aquarium Salt" and try to mix it so that it resembles ocean salt content. I haven't seen any going near the water baths yet, though. Sources I read said to use "aquarium salt" and this seemed to fit the bill.

Food: "Wardley Hermit Crab Premium Food"
This is freeze-dried shrimp. I shake out a few of these and then put some water (dechlorinated, like all the water i use for them) as directed by the packaging. I've not seen them eat this, but I put it out all the same. They might be sneaking bites while I'm asleep, but they're usually in the same spot when I wake up, so I'm unsure about that.

"Scarlotta Seedless Grapes"
I cut these in half and lay both halves squishy-side up. I've caught a couple of my crabs eating these before. Is there a danger of pesticides? I don't know how to check for that.

"Marketside Petite Carrots (Cut & Peeled)"
I cut these into quarters - once longwise, once down the middle. I haven't seen them eating this, but again, I could've missed it.





Here are two picture of the crabitat. The first is annotated, the second is a clean version. You can click on them for a bigger version. I can take more as requested, or take pictures of any of the things I'm feeding/watering them with as needed. Please, just let me know what you need to help me with these guys!





P.S. Sorry for labeling obvious things on the annotated version. It's kinda late where I am so it's possible I might go to bed before this gets any replies, and if that happens, I want to try to make sure everything is 100% clear without me there to interpret.

e: Forgot to mention this, but I have purple pincher crabs! That's important, I should've had that in there.

[Kermie16]

First of all, welcome to the HCA!! I'm sorry for the losses you've had previously with your crabs:/ But this is a great forum where we are always willing to help and give advice. I'm still fairly new to crabbing - only since earlier this year. It's a huge learning curve and once you've got things stable in the tank, these guys are just fun to have as part of the family:) If you already haven't done so, please take a look at the crab care guide stickies from this forum along with the safe food lists. I would put in the links but I don't know how to do that on tapatalk. I have to say, I'm not too familiar with beach sand from Lowes. I know several crabbers use beach sand from the beach. Most of use regular playsand also sold at lowes or Home Depot. Temperature of the tat should be at least 80. I keep ,mine around 81-82 degrees. If u already haven't done so, go ahead and calibrate your thermometer/hygrometer. I do this at the beginning of every month to both of mine to make sure nothing has changed. Looking at the pic it appears your sub is at sand castle consistency so, if it is, then that's good . In terms of water, honestly, I just use a gallon jug, fill it with my tap water, then put 5 drops of Prime conditioner (what most of us use because it covers a lot of chemicals in tap water) and it's ready to be used any time. Much cheaper than regular bottled water and I really don't know that bottled spring water is safe for the hermies - maybe a more experienced crabber can chime in on this? For aquarium salt, the vast majority of us use Instant Ocean. It's a powder in a box and runs fairly cheap and just use as directed. I use gallon jug for my salt water - I add my dechlorinator first then add the salt and mix. I use Wardley's freeze dried shrimp and my guys are able to eat it dried without having to put fresh water on it. Any of the fresh foods I give my guys I make sure they are organic (pesticide free). Looking at your tat, looks like u have good hides and a nice piece of cholla for climbing and munching on. Questionable painted blue shell on left next to your UTH?? If so, then go ahead and toss that out. You can also toss out the sponges in the pools - they tend to harbor bacteria. Also questioning how deep your FW and MSW pools are? They should be deep enough for your largest crab to fully submerge. For the crabs to get in and out of the pools, you can use other things besides the sponges like river rocks, clam shells, craft mesh, etc. You can search under the DIY sectioned this forum and find some interesting ways to make some pools for your guys:) MAJOR POINT HERE: DO NOT DIG UP BURIED CRABS UNLESS EMERGENCY - like a flood in your tank. Digging up buried crabs can cause them more harm and possible death. Also, if you accidentally find a buried crab, DO NOT re- bury or cover them with sub. They can suffocate. We cannot recreate the tunnels and caves they make. If this happens by accident, then you would need to ISO them in similar conditions to keep them safe and keep them in darkness which helps them through the process of molting.
I'm sorry, I'm in a rush now, but I hope a few of these tips have helped you. And I'm sure other HCA members will chime in and add more helpful tips!! Again, welcome to the HCA!!


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[Tnguo]

Hi, there! Thank you for posting your photos and giving us details about your crab care! I've owned crabs for almost one year now, and I'm sure you'll get other more detailed responses from much more experienced crab owners, but I can tell you a couple things just from looking at the photos you posted.

First, it looks like the fresh water and salt water bowls are not deep enough for your crabs to fully submerge themselves. They fill the inside of their shell with a mix of fresh and salt water so that they can relate the ion concentration in their bodies. If the pools are too shallow, they can't do this and will get sick and eventually die. Make sure you are mixing the right amount of ocean salt to dechlorinated water for your salt water pool. Apologies if you are already doing this, I just couldn't tell if you knew the measurements or were estimating. Instructions for how much ocean salt to use can be found in the Crab Care section in the forums.

Second, the under tank heater is too small for the size tank that you have. I'm surprised to see that your temperature gauge is reading as high as it is. If you read the Crab Care section under Forums, it will tell you the appropriate size heater you need for your tank size.

And last, make sure the depth of your substrate is at least 3-4 times the height of your largest crab. You didn't say how big your crabbies were, so I can only goes by the height of your substrate. As to mixing the substrate, crab owners seem to vary with what they prefer, but I believe the standard mixing ratio is 1:5 parts eco earth to sand, respectively.

The forums here are a great resource for telling you everything you need to know for crab care, so going through them a second time is well worth it, particularly the sections relating to crabitat conditions. You'll make a great crabbie parent, don't worry! You're already taking a big step by asking for help, so please keep the questions coming : )




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[PickYerPoison]

Thank you, that's a lot of good info! To quickly answer a couple of questions you had:

80F? Wow, I didn't realize it should be that warm. I can start warming up the larger heating pad in that case then, although it'd be nice if others could weigh in on this - I've seen a lot of different numbers during my searching online.

Unsure how to calibrate the hygrometer - this brand didn't seem to come with directions for that.

Substrate is at sand castle consistency, yes. Thanks!

The shells are painted - I can ditch those, I don't know if they're any good or not, but I don't have similarly sized shells other than those. I can drive around tomorrow and find some, though.

Pools are somewhat deep (deeper than some of the crabs are tall), and I was worried my crabs might not be able to get out if they went in - I'll put some rocks in there instead of sponges, thank you!

Oh no! I didn't know that about buried crabs! I really hope I didn't doom mine by digging it up - how long should I wait before checking on it? Is there a way I can check on it? Or should I just leave it alone forever or until it comes up?

That's all the stuff I can address right now - thank you for the prompt posting!

e: new post while I was posting this. Thank you so much!

Pools are deep enough for the crabs, but it's super hard to tell from that picture, so I don't blame you at all. Substrate is definitely deep enough - it isn't a 1:5 eco-earth/sand mix, though. If I get to a point where I don't have two crabs buried somewhere in there I'll try to fix that, but at the moment I don't want to risk digging them up - I'm sure you understand!

Doing my best with that salt/water ratio - I'm trying to mimic ocean salinity. Is that the right value to aim for? Should I do more or less?

Okay, seeing a second poster about the temperature - I'm going to start warming up that bigger heating pad right away, and tomorrow I'll swap them out. Thank you!

[mool]

The salt you've purchased is the "wrong" kind. You need the salt that is used to make salt-water tanks. Most people use a brand called Instant Ocean. You mix it at 1/2 cup of salt to one gallon of water. This salt has all the micro minerals that mimic ocean water. Your salt is just salt; it's used medicinally to treat some fresh water fish ailments.

Your food choices need to be broadly expanded! Check out the safe food lists to see what you can feed them. I personally prefer to buy mixes from vendors on Etsy and other places. Try feeding them some raw egg shell; honey, peanut butter, banana, plain raw oat meal if you have any of those things on hand. It is strongly advised to only feed organic or pure wild sourced foods. Crabs don't do well with chemicals. Also, pelleted crab food from the pet store is not good for them.

Try Hobby Lobby or JoAnn's Fabrics for some shells. You'll want a particular type called turbos.

You've got more right than wrong; so don't give up!

[PickYerPoison]

I see! Okay, that makes sense. Thank you - I'm building a shopping list right now, and I'm going to order things (or run out and buy them right away, if possible) after I have everything I need, so that it'll all be shipped together.

Do you know if food from Aldi or Trader Joes would be good? If you've never heard of them, don't worry, that answers the question anyway.

I'll definitely check out craft shops for shells - I should've done that in the first place! I'd not heard the word" turbo" before but after some quick googling it makes a lot of sense they'd prefer those kinds of shells. I now understand what to look for, thank you!

Sorry to be seemingly a bit unwilling about ordering stuff online - it's not that I dislike it, but if I can find sources for consumables like food within driving distance, I'll be able to react to their needs much more quickly. Salt and shells I'm much more willing to order online.

[LadyJinglyJones]

Hi!

Sorry to hear about your crab losses! That must be very disheartening.

While there are a number of areas that can be improved - and I think most crabbers are always improving their tats, it gets to be a bit of an obsession - it's worth mentioning the phenomenon of post-purchase syndrome (PPS).

A depressing number of crabs that pass through the comercial trade are too damaged by bad living conditions (cold, crowding, inadequate diet, low humidity, etc.) To survive by the time you get them home. It isn't that uncommon for crabs to sicken after purchase. You can try to help them out by improving the conditions of their new home, but you can't undo damage they've already sustained.

Also, were the crabs you purchased in painted shells? The process for getting them into those is potentially very damaging.

In case you had any difficulty finding instructions to calibrate your hygrometer, here's a link:

http://www.hermitcrabassociation.com/ph ... 26&t=92540

In my experience (as well) a heater that small would have a hard time heating the tank.

Oh, and a fun adition that crabs loooove is a moss pit. Any container with moistened reptile safe moss (not craft store moss because that is often dyed or treated with fungicides) in it will do. A lot of people put them in shower caddies on the walls with ladders or wood to climb up, to make a second level. The crabs can eat the moss, and as you spray the moss daily to soak it, it helps maintain humidity.

Edit: oh - and about hygrometers ... analog (the type you have pictured) are unreliable. You're better off with a digital. Digital hygrometer/thermometer combo units can be had pretty cheap at most hardware stores!

[daws409]

Looks like everything has been addressed. Just want to say welcome to HCA! Keep us updated on how things go.

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[PickYerPoison]

Thank you so much everyone! Unfortunately, Valentine doesn't seem to have made it - he's lying on his side and seems unresponsive to stimuli (namely me putting the hygrometer back in after calibrating it). I'll let him sit there for a day or two still, though, since I need to order new stuff anyway. I also plan to phone the pet store and ask when they get new hermit crabs in so I can get a larger set to choose from.

PPS definitely seems to describe what I'm seeing from most of these guys, which is mostly them not eating or drinking or doing anything and just kinda...dying. That said, I'm still worried I might've unintentionally given them bad food/water so I'm going to fix that before I get any more!

These crabs were in painted shells, yes now that I know how bad that is (and what to look for) I'm going to make sure to have plenty of unpainted shells available for new arrivals in case they want to switch right away.

I'll look into that moss! There's not a lot of room left in the tank right now, unfortunately, so I'm not sure where I might put it without sacrificing some of the precious running room the crabs have available to them, but I'll definitely consider it, especially if I need to upsize in the future.

I'll spend the time before I get more crabs to revamp my toolset. Thank you for all the help!

While I'm doing my shopping, though, I have some more questions, since now's the best time to get new stuff or change old stuff.

My cholla (chora? chlora? choya?) wood is pointing away from the heated side of the crabitat. I figured this was the best idea, since that way it wouldn't be in danger of heating damage. Is that best? Should I point it towards the warm side? This might not even matter, but I just want to be sure.

Here is a close-up of my water bowls (click for larger, of course). I've put some rocks in it, but I'm not sure if it's adequate. The crabs can definitely full submerge in this, but I'm worried they might knock over the rocks or be unable to climb out. Should I get better rocks? Are rocks a bad idea? I can get new pools for them if I need, but I rather like these ones - they're colored (so I can easily remember which one is saltwater and which one is fresh water) and they nestle nicely together like that.


I've been using blue LED lights for nighttime viewing (turning them on now and then to look in, check the hygrometer, check on the crabs, etc). Is this bad for the crabs? I can dig up more detailed info on the specific model I use if you guys need.

I'm going to be getting more crabs for sure, once I've fixed the current problems. How many should I get? I have two crabs buried in the substrate that may or may not re-emerge at some point. Should I get two crabs? Three? Four? I'm unwilling to get more than four because of the tank's size. I want to be sure the ones on the surface will have company until the buried ones emerge but will not feel crowded when they do.

And this might not be relevant for a while, but I'd like to know the answer: I currently have two crabs buried in the substrate somewhere. Say they never come up. How long should I wait for them? Do I need to dispose of those bodies if they do die down there? How can I tell if they have? What's the proper procedure for this? I'm perfectly happy to leave them down there for as long as they need, or just forever if there's no problems with it, but if it's not a good idea to leave potentially dead crabs down in the substrate I need to know when/how to check and what to do.

Finally, one thing that I'm wondering as I look through the water stuff: let's say I have water that doesn't have chlorine or chloramine but does have heavy metals, and I use a dechlorinator that removes all of those things. Is it safe to use it on that water? Does it become toxic or dangerous to the hermit crabs? I don't know what my water company has in their water (although I'm trying to find out), but if I can't get ahold of that information or don't trust it, is it safe to just go with Prime anyway?

e: Just occurred to me that I used this spring water stuff to wet the substrate when I was putting it in. Is the substrate potentially boned? Do I need to dig it up and start all over again? I can do that if I need, but I'm worried about the crabs buried beneath it - that would probably be pretty bad for them.

[Crabymom]

I commend you on your efforts. I do believe you should take the time to go to hermit crabs.com and read all the information posted. I did this when I first got my crabs in 2015. Tons of information. About the food, there is a recipe on the hermit crab site that uses cuttle bone, plain dry oatmeal, rice, not instant, I used whole grain, and protein, something like your dried shrimp. You grind them up, I used a coffee grinder, and mix together. Then you add anything else you want like parsley, ground almonds or walnuts, flaked coconut, but plain not sweetened. You can find it in grocery stores. You can buy dried crickets and grasshoppers and grind up and give to them too. Plain egg shell is good too. I sometimes put a half shell with organic honey in my crabitat. The Hermit Crab Patch has lots of different foods that my crabs like too. The mineral supplement and worm castings they have and the popcorn treats are big favorites. You can also give fresh spinash, kale and cooked chicken or beef. Just don't use any spices. If you have oak trees where you live, go out and get some, wash, dry and place in the tank. They like them. Good luck with your crabs.

[NLindsey921]

I'm not sure about the bowls but I know that crabs like to eat cholla wood and the paint on your wood would not be safe for them. They will eat it and though it's non toxic for us, it's not nontoxic for the crabs.

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[PickYerPoison]

I'm not sure about the bowls but I know that crabs like to eat cholla wood and the paint on your wood would not be safe for them. They will eat it and though it's non toxic for us, it's not nontoxic for the crabs.

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Ah, that's actually a plastic thing, it's not painted wood. But the point still stands, so I'll probably remove it just to be safe.

[GotButterflies]

Welcome to the HCA! I too think your crabs suffered from PPS. So sorry to hear of your losses. Sounds like you are taking all of the right steps to provide excellent care for your crabs. Aldi & Trader Joe's are great stores. Products just have to be 100% organic ~ no pesticides, no fertilizers~ and make sure they are on the safe food list. So jelly you have a Trader Joe's close to you!!! Prime is a great product. I wouldn't worry about the substrate at this point. Just treat all water from this point forward. I know you stated that you purchased beach sand from Lowe's, but it really does look like what some use on here~ play sand. It does look like beach sand, but really isn't. Stay away from calcium sand. We are always here to help you! You might want to edit that post though, I'm not sure they like cursing. Also, how big is your tank? Be careful not to overcrowd. I personally do 5 gallons per crab. Oh, for your water bowls...some use craft mesh, can be purchased at Michaels, Hobby Lobby, Walmart, cut it, push in sand, bend other side into the water, hold down with rocks. Also, you can do other things. I like aquarium plants draping into the water to pull up on, or aquarium decor in the water to climb onto for a few ideas. As far as the red plastic cholla, I don't like it. You have the real stuff, that's the best! Also, nobody really explained the painted shells to you. The paint is toxic to them. The hermits eat it and can get sick. By providing same size & larger shells you encourage them to get out of those cruddy shells. Bed bath and beyond has a large jar of shells that hermits love too. Not turbos, babylonians. I use Tupperware containers for my water dishes. They are like huge swimming pools for the crabs to go into. Not only do the crabs go in them, they walk around underwater. I would recommend getting larger pools. You can fill the bottom with gravel. It's best if you can double the bowls up so when you change the water you aren't disturbing anyone if there is a molten underneath. Good luck! Hopefully I didn't overwhelm you!


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[GotButterflies]

Also, there are a lot of shells out there that hermits don't really care for. Under the forums section, check out the shell section


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[PickYerPoison]

No Trader Joe's (there's one near my parent's house, though, is why I asked) but I do have an Aldi within a ten minute drive, so it's great to know I can shop there for food.

I'll definitely get Prime. Can anyone answer a question though, is it okay to use Prime on water that may or may not have all of chlorine, chloramine, and heavy metals in it? Say it doesn't have one of those, if I use Prime on it does it become toxic to my hermit crabs?

I'm unsure what the difference is between beach sand and play sand. What I got from Lowe's was labeled as "Beach Sand" but I don't know what to look for or how to test if it qualifies. Is there a way to check?

I'll definitely be getting new shells as well. I'll remove the plastic cholla wood thing, too.

Not sure about using tupperware containers for pools - there's just not enough space. I'd have to remove a hiding spot or encroach on the open area I have for them to walk around in. I'll look into the craft mesh, though, thank you!

I might upsize the tank in the future, but at the moment, I'm already dealing with two crabs buried in the substrate, so I want to avoid doing anything that needs me to mess with that, like transferring it to a new tank. This is a 20 gallon tank, I believe, so I will probably purchase two new crabs when I have it set up more comfortably.