The hermit crab keeping hobby is a lost cause

[Tyler_Fishman]

Years ago when I was little I kept hermit crabs, and everyone did too, it was a fad if you will, hermit crab keeping wasn’t perfected up until recently, with people realizing that a few cenitmeters of sand and painted shells were unethical and keeping them in small wire cages were unethical and didn’t bring out their best behaviors, today people have made amazing terrariums, Vivariums, and plaudariums centered around hermit crabs and even a very lucky few have gotten crabs to attempt mating behavior or even become gravid with fertile eggs and even smaller than that an extreme minute few have even raised hermit crab zoa into juveniles. My gripe with this hobby is that it’s not sustainable, there is no market for captive breeding of coenobitidae crabs, it too complex, there is many species in the genus coenobita however only 2 are sold readily, C. cylpeatus and C.compressus. This is sad to me, these crabs are threatend in the wild while captive breeding efforts have been made none seem to have been effective at cultivating the other species of the genus, crabs like C. perlatus only live around 3 years in captivity I see no reason to take an animal from the wild to put it into captivity on to have it live for half or even less than that of its life span, this isn’t sustainable like I said, countless crabs are taken out of the wild only to be sold as novelty toys on boardwalks or to pet stores where many die, I can bet everyone on this forum which is about 200+ individuals has a hermit crab tank that’s up to par to hermits crabs care. An individual may have anywhere form 1-5 crabs, that’s around 1000+ animals only 1000+ animals, what about the other 1000+ animals being collected in the wild? Being sold to inexperienced keepers, mostly children, I don’t really like this hobby anymore, it isn’t right to take species out of the wild just for money. There are very nice and intelligent people on this forum who know this already I’m just saying the facts, I Wish there was a bigger market for these crabs, I wish species could be collected sustaiblly, and hopefully advances in technology will allow hermit crab zoa to be successfully reared easily and effienctally, the best people can do now is Adpot crabs.

[AwesomeHermit]

I see and agree with most points, but some will go out of their way to adopt crabs from people moving, or they just can no longer take care of the crabs. There has also been many successes with crabs. Renroc successfully got first raised hermit crabs onto land. Over time, more and more people got baby crabs in heir water bowls. This shows that the crab community is advancing. Clypeatus and Compressus are sold regularly, because they are found near the Americas. For example, Brevimqnus are regularly sold in the Philippines.

[NLindsey921]

And aussies are regularly available in Australia.

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[aussieJJDude]

And in japan, ruggies are commonly sold! (and same with China)...

The first successful crabber I know of was Curlz, with violas.... not Renroc. But successful in their own right, but Curlz breesing success was around the 2013/14 mark...


Even though i understand where your comming from, similar has happened in both the freshwater and marine fish industry... true, for freshwater exotic fish most of the wildcaught specimens happened in the Victorian era, while most of the marine fish exploitation has (kinda) stopped sometime in the late 90's/early 2000's, its just as their hobby grew, more came to understand of their requirements. What I'm trying to say, is similar could happen for hermit crabs.

IMO, as a whole, we know a lot more about crabs today then we did 10 years ago. Peoples crabs on this board along seem to have a longer life span than eariler attempts (IMO, reading some of the archives).
I do believe and hope that one day captive breeding is possible, maybe not in the next few years... but certainly soon. Sustainable export of wild crab in the meantime is possible, such as shipping them and having appropiate warehouses to accommodate their needs... PPS will be reduced through that, meaning less crabs are needed for the export. Likewise, have stores that actually have half correct advise that they can pass onto their future adoptee, making a well informed purchase.

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[AwesomeHermit]

The first successful crabber I know of was Curlz, with violas.... not Renroc. But successful in their own right, but Curlz breesing success was around the 2013/14 mark...





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Sorry. I meant that the babies were born in the water, I didn’t remember how I would word that.

[wodesorel]

Not true about wild caught fish species - many are still much cheaper to catch and ship wild. Ottos and kuhlis come immediately to mind with freshwater.

I just had a conversation about marine a couple of months ago where my friend who owns a pet store was lamenting the lack of captive bred choices, even though we now can captive breed something like 400 of the most desirable species. The problem is those fish cost so much more per individual that no one will pony up to buy them so no one breeds them. Cheaper to send a diver out with a net.

Reptiles also are still wild caught in droves. (Anoles, many chameleons, climbing gekcos, etc.) They can be bred, often easily, but it costs less to scoop one up rather than wait around for mating, incubation, and growing to size.

And the reverse of that is when harder to find species or restricted species suddenly become cheaper from captive breeding projects, and then you have $100 baby turtles that will eventually grow to 70 pounds and everyone runs out to buy them and then will rehome them when they get too big in a few years or are sick from not being kept right. The reptile rescues I know are all holding their breath for the influx they know is coming in a couple of years.


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[GotButterflies]

It's all sad....I wish we could just let the wild be wild....

[aussieJJDude]

Not true about wild caught fish species - many are still much cheaper to catch and ship wild. Ottos and kuhlis come immediately to mind with freshwater.

Wod, I did say most . Theres still a demand for wild caught fish, especially from the amazon basin (altum angels, cichlids (apistos... discus ect), new described plecos and tetras...). BUT, the trade of these fish has lead to jobs and employment for many people, true its not exactly the best wage for those individuals, but can be far less damaging to those areas such as illegal deforesting if done sustainably...

sustainability is the key to ensure that wild populations arent heavily affected.

Even plants are affected! In the malay region, Bucephlandra is being farmed from the wild in droves, causing a rapid decline in wild populations. Its only recently that new species/varieties (still up in the air on what it is, since they haven't been formally described into the 3 currently species... if they are the same or 'new') but captive specimens produce enough to reduce the strain on wild harvests.

I think the good thing about SW aqua in australia is that importation sucks and the government has tried to restrict capture of fish for the aquarium trade. Very rarely in aus I have come across a wild caught fish, a large majority of them seem to be aquarium raised - and very little control if you want to go down the wild caught rabbithole... can be done, but can take a bit of searching to find the fish your looking for.

Its sad that its happening, but i do believe there has been a recent push for many hobbyists to keep demanding/difficult to breed animals (or plants) to reduce the impact on wild populations. I've seen various efforts over the previous few years to breed wild caught fish, plants and inverts (such as nerite snails) which does give me hope that one day, capture of such species (like otos and kuhlis) will cease....

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[wodesorel]

I forget that different countries source from different locations. It's still really bad in the US. Australia has been amazing in the last several decades in controlling their wild species and their borders.

Also, the term farming is often misleading. The Emperor Scorpions I breed were 'farmed' for several decades, however it became known that these farms were simply wild collecting from private lands. It still drove the population to dangerous levels and led to a bump up on the CITES listings. Because many of these exotic species come from third world countries were the populous is looking for any way to sustain themselves financially and the governments do not have the money to devote to policing animal laws, 'legal' collecting and farming have to be closely scrutinized for truth.

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[aussieJJDude]

Also, the term farming is often misleading. The Emperor Scorpions I breed were 'farmed' for several decades, however it became known that these farms were simply wild collecting from private lands. It still drove the population to dangerous levels and led to a bump up on the CITES listings. Because many of these exotic species come from third world countries were the populous is looking for any way to sustain themselves financially and the governments do not have the money to devote to policing animal laws, 'legal' collecting and farming have to be closely scrutinized for truth.

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Wow, thats quite interesting... The more that you know.

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[ErikRasmussen]

As I got deeper into my proffered line of work the line between "Wild" and "Domestic" or..."Nature" and "Society" became ever so blurred. The logic in these claims are often lost to me. I find just as many mountain lion tracks, fox tracks, coyote tracks bobcat tracks etc, in the mountains as I do down town Salt Lake City. The concentric rings of modern man expand far beyond what most trackers can see let alone non-trackers. The pet trade at its core serves to educate and inspire, to... foster an appreciation an appreciation of what is beyond our awareness. So that when we leave our four walls we have more context to view the world. As far as the modern experience goes the effects of the pet trade are definitely on the lighter side of things. "You can't have the light without the dark and so it is with magic [pets], as for me I always strive to live within the light. -Prof. Slughorn H.P & H.B.P

[soilentgringa]

The pet trade exists to make money, otherwise you wouldn't have thousands of shady breeders causing generations of genetic mutations to get jussst the right color morph on a snake, so they can sell it for $5K, or inbreed show dogs to the point where they have constant respiratory and other issues.

Zoos and conservation groups exist to preserve and educate.

Wild animals don't need to be harvested for sale in order to educate and inspire.

*shrugs*

It would be cool if that weren't the case but in the last few years I've seen way too many people turn down perfectly adoptable crabs and other animals in favor of shelling out money to disreputable vendors and breeders because they just had to have exotics.



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[wodesorel]

In recent years there are zoos are making choices not on conservation but on exploitation. I know the argument can be made it is to raise money for their cause, but it doesn't sit well with me.

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[LadyJinglyJones]

Just wanted to touch on the OP post:

I think it's worth noting that there is no sinugar, monolithic 'hermit crab hobby'. Hermit crab keeping is practiced differently by different people who keep crabs, though it is almost entirely facilitated by pet trade sellers. It is comprised of many (&shifting) trends - the dominant trends hopefully moving ever closer to practices that will best preserve the quality of life for the animals in question.

It's important to recognize that different people want very different things from this hobby. So there are many possible 'causes' you could recognize - some are certainly lost.... others, not so much.

If you purchase crabs, you finance the sellers. Sellers take from the wild. Problematic practices exist.

If you adopt, you don't finance the sellers. Many people only adopt. (Admittedly adopting is only possible due to sellers. But they aren't benefitting at this point.)

If there were no used hermit crabs, I simply wouldn't have them. Thats because of what I personally want from the hobby, just as playtime may be what another crabber wants.

What people in the forums often strive to accomplish is education of owners & improvement of the lives of individual crabs.

These things are accomplished many times a day via online outreach, and are certainly not lost causes, as such. While I'm unable to improve standards in the pet trade, I can educate people about it, about care standards, and about crabs.

Manageable goals can help to improve things gradually.

I can see why you'd be bummed by the sum of the things you mentioned, but the scope of what you're describing isn't human, it's massive - systemic, really. And that's part of why the situation looks so bleak; the frame you're viewing it through is too wide for manageable, gradual change to be noticeable in.

Not everyone wants to spend their whole lives preaching the crab story, and that's fair. But education, and the strides in undetstanding that this community as a whole have made, aren't nothing (I don't think. )

[LadyJinglyJones]

Because many of these exotic species come from third world countries were the populous is looking for any way to sustain themselves financially and the governments do not have the money to devote to policing animal laws, 'legal' collecting and farming have to be closely scrutinized for truth.

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Ditto collecting dried beetles, butterflies, etc... I have an exotic entomological specimen collection, but haven't added to it in years because doing my homework about the collecting just got to be a pain.