Move? Cover? or Leave Him Alone?

[hermiehugz]

Hi, I'm a newbie here and looking for some advice. I got my hermit crabs 2-3 months ago. My smallest one was buried under, presumably molting, for 5 1/2 weeks... he just came up a few days ago for a few hours and then buried again. My medium one buried about two weeks ago, and I'm assuming that she is molting. Now my largest crab (shell is maybe 1 1/2" tall) has been lethargic for about a week. He stayed in one spot for a couple days, out in the open which is unusual as he usually prefers cover during the day. Then he went in a hut for a couple days, and now he's been out in the open again for the last couple days, not moving. It doesn't smell, and I don't want to disturb him to make sure he's still alive. I'm hoping that he's not sick and is just getting ready to molt too, but I'm wondering why he hasn't buried?? I'm worried that he isn't going to bury and is going to molt on the surface. Is this normal? Should I be worried?

So I'm wondering if I should...
#1. Just leave him alone and trust that he will tunnel when it's time. He's dug tunnels before, so I know he knows how, lol!
#2. Isolate him. I've read about making ISO 'tats for them, but I don't have a way to keep a separate tank warm right now and it's pretty cold here... and if he has already started a molt, is it still safe to move him?
#3. Cover him somehow. I saw the suggestion to put a cut-off 2-liter bottle or margarine tub over them, but... the problem is that he is sitting exactly above the spot where I saw my medium crab tunnel! So I can't push the bottle down in the sand for fear of disturbing her.

Of course, maybe he's just lonely since his friends have been molting... or maybe he's sick... or maybe he's cold since the 'tat's been getting in the low 70s at night... or who knows! Any suggestions??

[LadyJinglyJones]

Heya, welcome!

Surface moults can begin the way you've described. It's also possible that your largest is ill. Are you familiar with post-purchase syndrome? (PPS for short.) Just in case this is a new term I'll link the info sheet about it:

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=92531

An ISO is only necessary if there's the likelihood of other crabs desturbing this one - that said, either of the other two may come up at night to feed or chill, and that's when you'd hypothetically run into the possibility of them bothering this guy, whether to steal his shell (unlikely if you have lots of preffered shells) or et him (unlikely if they have a good diet with lots of variety and calcium and animal protein to supply the needed nutrients).

I'd keep an eye on him til I was pretty sure that a moult was happening, as he may still experience periods when he has energy and the urge to forage - ideally he'd eat a bit more, store those nutrients then bury to moult like a good crab. But if he casts his exo, I'd say pop bottle ISO is the rout to go. You only need to push the edges down about an inch, and any tunnels can likely withstand a thin ridge of plastic being inserted if you've got the correct consistency (if the sand is dry enough that it wont hold with the insertion of a bottle's edge , that's a different problem). Also, crabs tend to tunnel at an angle, and rarely finish near where they begin, so I'm not too worried about the other one.

One reason a larger crab might not tunnel is that the sub is too shallow, so if it's less than 6" deep you likely want to add to the depth. (Though of course not all surface moults are cause by shallow sub.)

If you don't mind me asking, what are you offering for noms in a typical week? Making sure your crabs have an ideal diet can help reassure that you won't have any crazy cannibal action.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention, yes, cold can really slow them down, so I'd look into warming up the tank, to see if that gets him moving more. How warm is it during the day and what's your average at night?

[hermiehugz]

Hi! Thanks for the reply!

Surface moults can begin the way you've described. It's also possible that your largest is ill. Are you familiar with post-purchase syndrome?

Hmm, maybe. Before the last week or so, he was pretty active, probably the most active of the three. He liked to climb on the driftwood, make rounds about the perimeter, explore any 'tat rearranging that's new, and he visited the food and water dishes often. We haven't touched him at all to minimize stress, and I don't think he had any missing limbs or anything like that.

I'd keep an eye on him til I was pretty sure that a moult was happening, as he may still experience periods when he has energy and the urge to forage - ideally he'd eat a bit more, store those nutrients then bury to moult like a good crab. But if he casts his exo, I'd say pop bottle ISO is the rout to go. You only need to push the edges down about an inch, and any tunnels can likely withstand a thin ridge of plastic being inserted if you've got the correct consistency (if the sand is dry enough that it wont hold with the insertion of a bottle's edge , that's a different problem). Also, crabs tend to tunnel at an angle, and rarely finish near where they begin, so I'm not too worried about the other one.

Okay, I didn't realize that you don't have to push the bottle down all the way. I'll get a bottle ready, so I can pop it on if needed. That would be wonderful if he would eat more and then tunnel like the other crabs!

One reason a larger crab might not tunnel is that the sub is too shallow, so if it's less than 6" deep you likely want to add to the depth. (Though of course not all surface moults are cause by shallow sub.)

It's around 4-5" at the shallow side and 5-6" at the deeper side. I started with just EcoEarth, but I've been slowly mixing in Fluker's Hermit Beach sand... I'll add a bit more to get it up to 6", at least on the deep side. I think it's moist enough to be sand castle consistency.

If you don't mind me asking, what are you offering for noms in a typical week? Making sure your crabs have an ideal diet can help reassure that you won't have any crazy cannibal action.

Generally, they eat whatever we eat. I'll offer fresh fruits and veggies daily... coconut, apple, orange, banana, kale/salad greens, squash, broccoli. Occasionally meat... chicken, pork, tuna/salmon/shrimp. I just read that honey and peanut butter are good, so I will add those. I scrape some cuttlebone powder over their dry food. I've been giving them the bag of commercial food that came with the crabs , but I just saw the page with healthy alternatives so I will throw that stuff out asap.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention, yes, cold can really slow them down, so I'd look into warming up the tank, to see if that gets him moving more. How warm is it during the day and what's your average at night?

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Temperature and humidity stay between 70-80, usually upper 70s for both, although with the cold snap over the past week or so, it's been hard to stay warm (for all of us!). We live an a drafty old house, and the crabs are in the warmest room. Overnight is the worst when our fire goes out... the 'tat has been 70-72 in the mornings and probably not getting above 75 in the day. I have a UTH on the bottom of the 20 gallon tank, a black light heat lamp above for night heat, and a daylight lamp for day heat and daylight cycles. I just moved the lamps down an inch closer to the tank... maybe that will increase the temp a bit? Not sure how close I can safely get it to the glass lid though. I'll try to come up with other ideas to warm up the tank to see if that helps.

[LadyJinglyJones]

PPS can take a while to manifest.... wild animals can often be sick and not show it; it's like their systems will hold out, and hold out, as long as they can - because if they showed weakness predators would be on them, so they've evolved to be functional long enough for their immune systems to try to fix whatever is wrong. But then if they can't heal the problem, it overtakes them and they succumb.

THAT said, I do think it might be the heat issue, and not illness. Low 70s, while not super dangerous, aren't going to encourage a ton of activity. So on to the subject of heating...

The UTH: is it positioned on the side of the glass or the bottom, under the sand? Under the sand is dangerous, as the UTH can over heat with all that insulating matter over top of it, both cooking buried crabs & posing a fire hazard. It's fine for lizards (which are the intended critters for these heaters) but no good for crabs.

When crabbers use heat mats we place them on the back side (and sometimes ends) of the tank, above the sub (a ltitle bit of overlap is okay). Our objective is to heat the air. We ignore the sizing recommendations on packages, instead measuring the length of the tank and getting a heater that fills as much space above the sub as we can find - long, not square heaters tend to be preffered (i.e. an 11" x 23" heat strip would work well for a 20 high tank with 6" of sand, though if you wanted more sand you might want to use a 6 or 7" wide heater instead).

As for the moment, you want to move that heater if its underneath.... fire hazards require immediate action. If you can get it off without desturbing the crabs that's great, but it may be necessary to remove some sand. If that's the case, dig slowly, and isolate any crabs you find, as moulters can be delicate. And in tank ISO is fine.

We can talk insulation next, but I want to make sure the UTH is positioned correctly first.

For protein I like to make sure there's always something in the tank, as with calcium. Things like dried insects, bloodworms, and rivershrimp can be found in fish/reptile shops & don't get gross as fast as meaty meats, so theyre great - you just have to check the package for crab-unfriendly preservatives. You may continue to scrape the cuttlebone if you like doing it, but most of us just stick them in the sub like a surf board - the crabs pick at it.

EDIT: and BTW, while I like that Flukers actually made the effort to create a hermit appropriate sand (unlike every other pet supply company I know of), it's pretty pricey. If you go to a hardware store and buy a bag of play sand, it costs much less, and you get a good volume. It's completely safe.

[hermiehugz]

Update: Still absolutely no movement. It's been probably 3-4 days since I saw him move. He just looks limp to me. His legs are out, but his eyes and antennae are in his shell. If I had to guess, I'd say he looks dead. But no smell yet, so I'm still hopeful!

PPS can take a while to manifest.... wild animals can often be sick and not show it; it's like their systems will hold out, and hold out, as long as they can - because if they showed weakness predators would be on them, so they've evolved to be functional long enough for their immune systems to try to fix whatever is wrong. But then if they can't heal the problem, it overtakes them and they succumb.

Oh, that is so sad. Poor hermies. I hope that isn't the case for this guy, but that would make sense.

THAT said, I do think it might be the heat issue, and not illness. Low 70s, while not super dangerous, aren't going to encourage a ton of activity.

Okay, I hadn't made any changes yet, and last night when I checked, it was 79 degrees and 80% humidity... so I guess it has been getting up higher during the day sometimes. Still no movement though, even with the higher temp. Would the fluctuation from upper 70s in the day to low 70s at night every day make a difference?

The UTH: is it positioned on the side of the glass or the bottom, under the sand? Under the sand is dangerous, as the UTH can over heat with all that insulating matter over top of it, both cooking buried crabs & posing a fire hazard.

Oh, good grief! Yep, the UTH is on the bottom of the tank... that's where I thought it was supposed to go. It's not inside the tank between the sand and the glass, but attached to the outside of the bottom, between the glass and the table. So that has to be removed? There's so much misinformation out there about crab care... so frustrating. I've made so many mistakes, I'm amazed my crabs have lived this long. Sigh.

When crabbers use heat mats we place them on the back side (and sometimes ends) of the tank, above the sub (a ltitle bit of overlap is okay). Our objective is to heat the air. We ignore the sizing recommendations on packages, instead measuring the length of the tank and getting a heater that fills as much space above the sub as we can find - long, not square heaters tend to be preffered (i.e. an 11" x 23" heat strip would work well for a 20 high tank with 6" of sand, though if you wanted more sand you might want to use a 6 or 7" wide heater instead).

My tank is 24"w x 12"d x 16"tall ... does the heater need to be completely above the substrate or can it overlap a bit? Would something like this one that's 8" x 18" work attached to the back glass? I'm not seeing anything in a wider size.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002AQCLO/re ... TF8&psc=1

I'll pick up some of the protein snacks you suggested when I go to the pet store and start including them daily. And I'm definitely doing the cuttlebone surf board and the play sand, too... thank you so much for all your knowledgeable help!!!

[hermiehugz]

Update #2: In good news, my smallest crab has fully emerged from his molt... he's quick and spry and has been actively exploring the crabitat with his bright new exo and pointy legs. In not so good news, still no movement from my big guy, but still no rotten fish smell. It's been 5-6 days now since movement. It does smell crabbier... I added more hermit beach sand to raise the substrate level, so I'm thinking/hoping that's the smell. It's been warmer here, and temps have been upper 70s - low 80s in the 'tat. I picked up some Flukers Medley Treats at the local pet store and have started adding those in for protein. And I tossed out the crab food that I got when I bought the crabs. They didn't have any of the large 8" x 18" heat mats, so I had to order one. It won't get here till this weekend.

[hermiehugz]

Update #3: It's been about a week and a half and still no movement at all from my big guy. There's still no rotten fish smell and no sign of death/decay. He just looks limp. Is it possible that he's still alive without moving in that long??? Don't long how long me and the kids can keep the hope alive!

I have the new UTH for the back side of the glass, but I haven't turned it on yet or unplugged the one underneath the tank. I'm worried that changing the temp of the tank/substrate might interfere with my medium crab who's molting (~3 weeks buried so far). So I guess I'll wait to change that out till none are buried.

My smallest crab has been climbing over the big guy as though he were just another rock or shell in the way... so I went ahead and put a large yogurt container with a hole cut out over him. And I put a little food and water in with him too just in case he comes out of the hermit crab coma.

[curlysister]

That's a pretty long time for absolutely no movement. I will defer to one of the more senior crabbers to answer whether to move him or not.
The heater can overlap the substrate - mine is about 3/4 above and 1/4 below, or maybe 2/3 - 1/3.

[aussieJJDude]

I'll still wait it out, even though its has happens in the past where a crab has died and it hasn't smelled, they usually start to break down quickly...

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[hermiehugz]

Thanks aussieJJDude and curlysister. Yeah, I'm thinking how can he NOT be dead! Two weeks with no movement is a really long time, and he looks so completely lifeless. I can't see or smell any sign of decay though, so I'm gonna keep the hope alive a while longer.

My small crab went into a digging frenzy a couple days ago, and I got worried he would dig up my medium crab who's buried. I wonder if that's the day my medium crab shed her exo, and he could smell it. So I put him in a kritter keeper inside my tank and took the yogurt carton off of my "sleeping" big guy and put him under a coconut hut instead. I figure it's darker under the hut. Now I'm hoping that my medium crab isn't buried under where I put the KK... sigh. These poor crabbies... at the mercy of my learning curve!

[courtbri]

Thanks aussieJJDude and curlysister. Yeah, I'm thinking how can he NOT be dead! Two weeks with no movement is a really long time, and he looks so completely lifeless. I can't see or smell any sign of decay though, so I'm gonna keep the hope alive a while longer.

My small crab went into a digging frenzy a couple days ago, and I got worried he would dig up my medium crab who's buried. I wonder if that's the day my medium crab shed her exo, and he could smell it. So I put him in a kritter keeper inside my tank and took the yogurt carton off of my "sleeping" big guy and put him under a coconut hut instead. I figure it's darker under the hut. Now I'm hoping that my medium crab isn't buried under where I put the KK... sigh. These poor crabbies... at the mercy of my learning curve!

I haven't been on here in months it seems. I've read through your posts and I just have to say that your commitment and desire to give these little guys a great life is very evident. I am also not sure when your last post was added (my luck its been months) and I couldn't see a date but anyway I'm hoping your sleeping one may just be... Tired? Lol. I recently lost my favorite a couple months ago and I'm still so sad. I just loved that little guy as we had been through a lot. He had a bad molt and required hand feedings for quite some time until he was able to walk. The first time I seen him walk again I bawled like a baby. Anyway holding out hope for you. You are doing a great job!


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[hermiehugz]

I haven't been on here in months it seems. I've read through your posts and I just have to say that your commitment and desire to give these little guys a great life is very evident. I am also not sure when your last post was added (my luck its been months) and I couldn't see a date but anyway I'm hoping your sleeping one may just be... Tired? Lol. I recently lost my favorite a couple months ago and I'm still so sad. I just loved that little guy as we had been through a lot. He had a bad molt and required hand feedings for quite some time until he was able to walk. The first time I seen him walk again I bawled like a baby. Anyway holding out hope for you. You are doing a great job!

Thank you so much for the kind words, courtbri. I'm so impressed that you hand-fed your crab... that's wonderful! It's amazing how these little guys can work their way into your life and make you want to do whatever you can to take care of them. I never expected that when we got our hermies.

[hermiehugz]

Update 4: I'm very sad to say that my big guy is dead. I noticed some whitish stuff on his body up under the edge of his shell. I could just barely see it. I guess it was decay, maybe mold. He never smelled. So anyway, we buried him yesterday.

Last night, my middle-size crab finally surfaced for the first time from her molt. She had been under for 5 1/2 weeks. My kids say she came up for the funeral. She's buried again, but we all cannot wait to see her shiny new exo.

[Moonlightdreams]

Update 4: I'm very sad to say that my big guy is dead. I noticed some whitish stuff on his body up under the edge of his shell. I could just barely see it. I guess it was decay, maybe mold. He never smelled. So anyway, we buried him yesterday.

Last night, my middle-size crab finally surfaced for the first time from her molt. She had been under for 5 1/2 weeks. My kids say she came up for the funeral. She's buried again, but we all cannot wait to see her shiny new exo.

So sorry for your loss.

[LadyJinglyJones]

I'm so sorry to hear that, hermiehugz!
You did what you could!

But congrats on the other one comming up... it's always good to see them come up safely.