!!! Molter came up today after NEW crab was added 24 hrs ago is my crab safe?!! Did he finish molt?!

[Badmouse]

Since you've come to the emergency forum, we know you want a fast answer to your question. In order for us to figure out the problem as quickly as possible, we ask that you answer the following questions as best you can. Some of them may seem odd, but they're all designed to give us the information we need to give you a good solution for your problem. The things in the [ brackets ] are there to make this post easier to read once submitted. Thanks!


1. What kind of substrate is used in your tank and how deep is it?
Play sand and ecoearth coconut fiber 7 inches with declines to pools

2. Do you have gauges in the tank to measure temperature and humidity? If so, where are they located and what temperature and humidity do they usually read?
yes its a seedling Matt that reads the humidity and temperate digitally and is connected so I can set and control the temp gauge is located in upper right corner furthest from the heating matt on the outside upper left corner, next to the actual reading needle. Temp 77-84, humidity 75-85

3. Is a heat source used in the tank? If so, what?
outside of the tank is a seedling matt brand seedfactor MET certified seedling heat matt with digital thermostat controller with insulation on the outside of it the keep the heat moving inward to the tank (my dads in HVAC and recommended the insulation type)

4. What types of water are available (fresh or salt) and how is the water treated (what brands of dechlorinator or salt mix and what ratio is used to mix it)?
Salt and fresh water pools (5 1/2 x 7 1/2 4 1/2) both treated first with seachem primer, then the salt water pool is made using instant ocean, we have a split bubbler that bubbles both pools for circulation ratios per instructions salt water pool- 1/2 per gallon of water which we mix in a gallon then pour as much as needed for water changes and the seachem is always just a tiny drop because 1 capful is for 50 gallons and again we treat our fresh water 1 gallon at a time

5. What kinds of food do you feed and how often is it replaced?
Every 24-48 hours mixes of the following so far: boiled eggs, eggshells boiled in salt water, almonds, walnuts, peanut butter, cuttle bone stays in the tank, parsley, lettuce, dried apples, bloodworms, freeze-dried shrimp, bell peppers, raisin, grapes, carrot, and going to try many more I'm a new hermit crab mom since 7/31/19


6. How long have you had the crab and what species is it, if known?
Crabtain Lee the molter 7/31/19 purple pincher (and another crab since passed) and "Kyle" previous named crab adopted yesterday 9/5/19 he's huge!

7. Has your crab molted, and how long ago did it happen?
WELL Crabtain Lee was under for molt 8/27 and came up today 9/6 so only 10 days he was under for I don't think he's finished very worried

8. What type of housing are the crabs kept in, what size is it and what kind of lid is on the housing?
Aquarium top fin 29 gallon tank 30L x 12W x 18H, aquarium lid with the holes covered

9. How many crabs are in the tank and about how large are they?
2 crabs Crabtain Lee abt 2.5 inches and Kyle 3.5 but we've never taken them and actually measured. Want to but the 1 has had to move a lot and that's a lot of stress and the second only just got here yesterday and again a lot of stress

10. How many extra shells are usually kept in the tank, if any?
medium crab shells 4 larger 3 but I'm buying more I just didn't know exactly HOW large he was when we adopted him

11. Have there been any fumes or chemicals near the crabitat recently?
No!

12. How often do you clean the tank and how?
its a new tank (3rd home the 1st crabs had in a month) so I've only scooped some droppings but when I do I think well scoop droppings, inspect all items in tank for mold, salt water boil appropriate items, vinegar spray then salt water rinse, salt water soak then sun/oven dry, salt water microwave then dry all items inside as needed the way we did when we put each item in the tank (got the how to wash each type of object instructions from a hermit crab website) scoop sand in between, for big cleans rinse sand in seachem salt water then bake, if I'm replacing freeze my eco earth for a few hours before adding to sand, we do regular water changes weekly but mind you I have the circulation

13. Are sponges used in the water dish? If so, how are they cleaned?
no I have pools with the craft mesh ladders

14. Has anything new been added to your crabitat recently?
yes more shells (boiled in salt water then dried) one of new crab Kyles huts (vinegar then salt water rinsed) and one of new crab Kyles silly octopus decoration

15. Is there any other information you would like to share that might be helpful (anything that is regularly part of your crab care, playtime, bathing, etc.)?
I had a hard time decided which bathing camp I'd be in and I guess threes no definitive answer but I put my first crab in salt water and let him walk around a bit before our last tank change, then decided his increased activity afterwards was due to stress most likely and that since he has the options to submerge in salt and fresh water pools that I'd leave it up to him and not ever bath a crab again. SO I did not bath Kyle when before adding him to the tank- his tank he came from seemed well kept so that was another deciding factor. Unsure if maybe I should have though.

16. Please describe the emergency situation in detail.
OKAY SO I'm freaking out a bit because Crabtain Lee (smaller of 2 crabs) went down to molt 10 days ago and I added Kyle (new way bigger crab) to the tank yesterday after adopting him. I didn't dig up Crabtain Lee and put him into isolation tank because I read that can be detrimental to his molt and thus his life. Also- I spoke to a big time hermit crab person and asked about introducing bigger crabs to smaller ones worried Crabtain Lee would get his butt whooped when I went on adopting more crabs and was told let crabs just do what they do best and be crabs, made sense to me and I know they're very social hence why I'm driving all over to adopt singular crabs so they're not lonely. BUT then I also read (my mom did too) that some people have said the molting crabs smell great to other crabs and that they could dig them up and eat them while they're paralyzed from molting which sounds terrible but again I read a lot about other crabs living together molting at different times while other buddies are above ground and all is fine. BUT I didn't anticipate how big this crab would be, and he didn't have enough substrate to burrow in at his last home so when we got him home the first thing he dig was burrow through the upper layer of sand. But it was freaking us out a little. NOW this morning my molter Crabtain Lee is UP FROM BEING UNDER and I'm scared the big guy tried to eat him! I just saw a crushed big pincher on instagram and I'm pretty sure he's not done molting at all because that seems way to short a period for his size, and he seems to have a duller claw still although the others seemed pointy from what I could see. Also he was daytime active which he typically is not. Other big crab is under the substrate. Frantically setting up a 30 Gallon to put new crab in put what happened here? And even if Crabtain Lee is done molting isn't he too fragile and soft to be around big guy Kyle? Help what do I do??? Sorry and Thank you

.

[gunstreet.girl]

Hi there! Looks like you’ve done a great job in getting everything set up for your little dudes.

I’m wondering if there’s a specific reason you think the captain went down to moult vs just burrowing to rest/de-stress? It sounds like there’s been a fair bit of upheaval and a number of moves in the short period you’ve had him, so he may just have been exploring/de-stressing, and then came up when he sensed a new buddy was introduced.

Make sure to feed them protein and calcium sources every day (looks to me like you’re providing a good variety of foods) and keep an eye out for any signs of aggression, but based on the behaviour you’ve described I wouldn’t be overly worried. Maybe post a photo of the captain so we can see if there are any obvious concerns?

[Badmouse]

Hi there! Looks like you’ve done a great job in getting everything set up for your little dudes.

I’m wondering if there’s a specific reason you think the captain went down to moult vs just burrowing to rest/de-stress? It sounds like there’s been a fair bit of upheaval and a number of moves in the short period you’ve had him, so he may just have been exploring/de-stressing, and then came up when he sensed a new buddy was introduced.

Make sure to feed them protein and calcium sources every day (looks to me like you’re providing a good variety of foods) and keep an eye out for any signs of aggression, but based on the behaviour you’ve described I wouldn’t be overly worried. Maybe post a photo of the captain so we can see if there are any obvious concerns?

Thank you! I greatly appreciate that. I'm new and it's pretty nerve wracking because I care about them so much but I'm really trying. I think I may have made a mistake but my intentions are good (I'll get to that in a second just want to answer you in order of what you said to me).

So I haven't experienced this before so I'm not 100% positive that he was molting now that you mention it. Although I was before you asked. I read up on molting a good deal in anticipation for it, I'm unsure if these are all tell tale signs or not but I thought it was a for sure molt because: He would burrow for fun (I think more likely to destress he's been through a lot in a short period) but he'd come out to eat, or I'd catch him by the water pools briefly in the evening. Also I had only observed him by the salt water pools and I thought that was indicative of molt. Also he started eating a lot less or not much at all which I read could happen prior. His eyes didn't look cloudy as far as I could tell but he's kinda pale. Now initially I attributed this to poor nutrition prior to getting him. Also he changed shells every day for 4 days shortly before going under for 10 days. He wound up picking the smallest shell and I thought I ready they might do that because it'd be easier to burrow with. I did not however observe him dragging his shell while walking (read that was another sign of pre molt). We've been really trying to provide as much protein and calcium as possible to try to bounce him back so when he did molt he'd have a good one (do you have any particular suggestions for other protein and calcium favorites by chance?). I also read that some crabs will delay molt until conditions are ideal. Now I mistakenly purchased him and a buddy from a shore store up in Rhode Island before I realized what a terrible thing I was doing. Once I got home I was hit in the face with reality and I've been trying to make it up to him ever since (other crab passed sadly). So he lived in that shore store in a big mesh cage with other crabs, then drove from RI to NY in the car in a mesh "hotel" and lived in there for about 3 days, then got moved into a 10 gallon aquarium with proper conditions while we acclimated the 29 gallon tank, then moved in there. So I was thinking he probably hadn't molted in a while. Also observed dulled claws which tipped me off he wasn't coming off of a fresh molt. So yeah I thought perhaps he had been delaying molt for good reasons. So all of that especially with the duration of 10 days being under made me think molt. Would it be common to stay under that long and just be hanging out? I have no idea myself.

So now to my maybe big mistake.. (side note I'm separating from my husband/ divorcing and living at my moms now so she's gone on the hermit crab train with me and is also eager to give them a good life and do right by them) SO- we both were really worried about the size difference in the crabs, Crabtain Lee wouldn't stand a chance against new crab Kyle who's a bruiser of a crab. We think when Kyle excitedly was burrowing around in appropriate substrate for the first time in who knows how long he ran into Crabtain Lee, and then he popped out on the surface. CL started feverishly looking around the tank, trying to climb the wall, standing onto of Kyles contributed hut, then started burrowing again. Seemed either excited or very stressed. BUT we noticed a chunk missing out of his shell. And I was kinda worried he was soft post molt but from what I read he's way too big for such a short molt. Also his dull color and claws are still the same, looks even paler now though. Also, if he was trying to get to molting I think this tank is too small for a safe molt with Kyle the crabzilla in there. We didn't know he'd be as big as he is, the substrate is 3 times as big (id prefer deeper) but the surface areas not great for a bulldozing burrowing crab (were working on an upper level making a pier style walkway connecting two deck on each corner to optimize space). So we got flustered and put together another crabitat in the 30 gallon shorter but longer tank Kyle came with (with all the fixins had stuff from our first attempt but wound up buying better things for the main tank) and here's the worst part- Kyle was burrowed destressing I pray, I can't imagine he'd molt so quickly after moving in and he's bigger I know his molts are way less frequent but we did, we took him out and moved him into the new tank.

I'm worried about Crabtain Lee if he was mid molt? Also what is they were both excited about not being alone anymore? Also should there be concerns about them being together in the future since Kyle was living along for over a year? I just don't know I don't have any experience and I want to do the right thing. And unfortunately my mom saw a video of one crab basically ripping a smaller crab limb to limb and I read about some horror stories on here of a crabby girl getting munched on while she was under for molt! I don't want that to happen of course. Does anyone think he was molting? Did I just break up the happy crabby party or did I make a good call? I do think it might not be enough space even though its appropriate crab per gallon housing.

Now I need to destress and molt

Thank you so much for reading all of this. And for any input or recommendations you may have, and thank you so much for replying in the first place. I need any input I can get I wanna do a good job, and there's no places by me I could turn to.

I'm going to try to post pictures now. THANK YOU AGAIN SO MUCH!!

[Badmouse]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZtaZYKpzcMsSbC5R6

Crabtain Lee
Kyles current housing situation (I know the reptile lights a no no but he's buried and in his little hut and I need to get the temp up cause zoomed heaters haven't worked out for me and that's what I had left over from my first tanks, I'll turn it off once desired temp is reached/ if I see him come out which I doubt for a bit cause he's had a DAY)
And an awful picture of the 29 gallon where CL is post me searching all over for Kyle

[gunstreet.girl]

I only have a few minutes so apologies if any of this sounds curt - not my intention, just want to respond quickly now to a few items and will respond in greater detail tomorrow.

- Crabtain looks pale and based on your description of his behaviour is likely preparing to moult. As you’ve already separated him and Kyle I would leave them separated until Crabtain completes his moult.
- once Crabtain completes his moult, I would suggest adjusting the substrate and pool situation in your tank before reintroducing Kyle. The way you have the substrate slopes and the pools placed effectively reduces the moulting space in your tank significantly - I would level out the sub (as always, min 6” or 3x etc) and then place the pools on top (or you can of course sink them in a bit for stability).
- I wouldn’t be worried about the size difference and previous solitude, except as regards the tunneling/moulting space with the pools as they are. My first crab was (still is ) a jumbo who was rescued from a woman who kept him alone in a giant ice cream tub. He lived alone with her for at least 10 years, and then alone with me (in his own tank, of course, not an ice cream tub) for 3 years before I could find him rescued buddies. Who were less than 1/5 his size. Many other rescues of all sizes have followed, and they all get along famously. Watch for aggression, but size differences alone are not a cause for concern

More tomorrow on your other questions! And sorry for the rushed initial response. Take care and try not to stress too much, you’re doing a great job and doing your best. The little guys are lucky to have you.

[Badmouse]

Oh thank you so much for taking time to respond to my long posts. I so appreciate it, and you've been lovely and certainly didn't come off as curt

Okay separation until after molt sounds like a good plan. Kind of relieved in a way to let him do his thing before I get more experience in inter-crab relations.

I am totally getting what you're saying about the substrate. I think my thought process was what if they burrowed underneath the pools then couldn't get out but they'd figure to go around them Im sure? Also now I get why I've been seeing these nice crabitats with the pools just placed ontop. More burrowing/molting room, it was intentional for a good reason not just that it would be easier to change the water like I had initially thought. For sure 3xs or 6 inches depending on biggest crab thank you!

He lived in an ice cream tub!? Talk about a survivor! I hope that my first crabs are with me as long as you've had your first. Thank you for sharing that with me, it makes me feel better. I'm typically not neurotic I'm just out of my element Thank you so much for your help, words of encouragement, and being so kind. It's intimidating to talk about mistakes as a new crab owner on a veteran crab forum.

I'm signed up with the crab street journals hermit crab adoptions. I've got 4/5 more singular crabs from different adoptees that I'm still hoping to hear back from. Do you think it would be okay to add crabs to Kyles temporary tank which is a pretty good set up if I hear from them? That way he's not lonely and I know for sure the adoptee crabs are at least in good temp/ humidity levels? It makes me sad thinking about the possibility that the singular crabs out there are living in the same mesh house and pink and purple gravel I brought mine home in (I'm going to buy another digital seedling heating matt for him I like having the control with the temps).

Cant wait to see Crabtain post molt!!!

Thank you SO much

[curlysister]

Welcome to crabbing! I will try to answer a few of your questions too.

The crab in the photos is not mid-molt. He must have just been under for a de-stress/ hang out session. They won't come up until they are ready. You are absolutely correct that a crab under the surface should not be dug up, except for very rare circumstances.

Heat lamps aren't terrible things, but they do zap the humidity quite badly, which is why many of us prefer the heat pads (they are called UTH's - under tank heaters - even though they never go under, always on the side or back of the tank).

When you have proper depth of substrate in an appropriate sized tank, crabs should have enough room to molt and not dig each other up. Don't panic, LOL. The only time one of my crabs dug the other up was when the sub wasn't deep enough (I had upgraded tanks, Sonny had grown bigger, sub had settled, and I didn't realize that it wasn't at least 3x as deep as he was). You never need to replace all the substrate, except in very rare cases of a flood or bacterial bloom. In the 9 years I have had my crabs, I have never replaced the sub, only added more as I upgraded tanks and they have grown. I also don't scoop out the poop, I just mix it in. Mold on items in the tank isn't harmful to the crabs, it's only a problem for humans if you have a sensitivity or allergy.

Crabs don't need to be isolated to molt, they can be left in the main tank. But now that you have them separate, you could either leave them or try to re-introduce into the same tank.

Hopefully one of the admins will jump in with more info for you too.

[Badmouse]

Hello Curlysister,

Thank you so much for the welcome I'm happy to be here, thanks for having me!

Very glad to get more confirmation that he's not mid molt- phew! 10 days is a pretty long hang out session though isn't it? Or is that normal? Yeah and you know what I really did make a bad call out of panic before but I'll never do that again. I wasn't thinking clearly. Poor new Kyle, just trying to destress. I was almost 100% positive that he wasn't going down for a molt though cause he's so big and his claws look relatively sharp and he's very vibrant compared to my smaller crab but I gotta say- just read through a bunch of thread of people saying their new crabs dig down for molt as soon as their claws hit the substrate although it seemed they were all smaller crabs. Anyways im trying to tell myself that in this particular case of poor judgment that it'll pan out okay for big ol Kyle.

..Dare I ask what happened when the crab got dug up? Maybe I've had enough for one day? Did the crab make it?I don't get it why would you eat your crab friend. I'm having a moment trying to wrap my head around digging, being paralyzed, eating your exo, then coming back all soft and tasty that's a really vulnerable position to be in for a crabby.

Okay just mixing in the poo that makes sense I think I read about tanks becoming self sufficient? or Ecosomething or other eco efficient? Not replacing sub thats cool cause that's less money and the tanks just keep getting bigger and bigger haha. Do you bake or rinse your sub? Good to know about the mold, I thought about this at one point when I saw a molded grape and thought noones in the wild getting rid of the mold so that makes sense. I have noticed that nothing in the tank has molded since a resealed and dried all of my wood items in the salt water longer. My sub was deff too damp then too, lessons.. so many lessons..

I'm going to leave the pre molt crab alone until he does his business, he's had a rough go of it and I think he's tapped out on change and my last minute crabitats is I think very acceptable for a few weeks.

Yes that makes a lot of sense with the heat lamp, I've got two zoomed UTH on the upper sides of the tank which also happens to be where the pools are and also where the lamp is, and I sprayed, so I'm hoping it will have gone up a bit then rise when I turn it off and wrap that part of the opening overnight. I've got a split bubbler in there too and I cant help but think the little spraying bubbles will help with humidity?

Hey thank you so much for taking a moment to respond to me, it's really helpful. I appreciate your insight a lot. (So do Crabtain Lee and Kyle lol!)

[curlysister]

My crabs are Sonny and Cher. Sonny is bigger, and he dug up Cher. She was in the process of her new exo hardening up, she wasn't too soft luckily. One of her legs was torn off in the digging though. I dug around and found some more of her exo that she hadn't eaten. I made a little isolation hut for her (inside the main tank) with an upside down plastic container, and put her exo in there along with small dishes (I used bottle caps) of fresh and salt water, extra calcium foods, honey, etc too. I kept her isolated for a few weeks before I let her back into the tank with Sonny. She got around just fine with the missing limb. I can't remember when she had her next molt, but it was at least a month or more later. And she re-grew the missing leg! It was a big skinnier, but looked good. After her second molt, her leg looked the same as the others, I couldn't even tell which one it had been!
I do not bake or rinse the sub. I use the playsand straight from the bag, and add the moistened EE to it. I use the 5 parts playsand to 1 part EE mix.
I use multiple UTH's - one on each side and two on the back. My house varies greatly in temperature, depending on the season (old farm house, no air conditioning, baseboard heater in the room upstairs where the crabitat is - and temps outside range from -40C in winter to +40C in summer), so I can plug/ unplug as needed to keep the temp in the proper range.

[Badmouse]

Well Sonny and Cher always did have an up and down relationship didn't they? really cute names! Sounds like it really is a sit and wait and hope for the best situation? Because in theory this could happen accidentally just a crab burrowing around with a ton of substrate couldnt it? But she recovered well and was okay.. and it sounds like Sonny wasn't necessarily looking for a snack or he could have had at while she was vulnerable I suppose?

I do the 5 parts play sand to 1 part EE too, but I have the bag not the block. I read that a lot of people don't wash their sand so I didn't my second time around, also read that maybe I should take a magnet to it to see if any metal pieces that ought not be in there come out? I haven't but I could. I do think I need to moisten it more its slightly less than sand castle consistency although I've noticed their burrows seem to hold. I can see when he's burrow by that glass, which is cute cause they're not totally out of sight.

Crabs in the tundra!? Thats something else! Wow I thought I was having trouble regulating.. thats why I got this fancy shmancy rigged heat matt I feel like id need 3 if I lived up by you im just fighting the air conditioning LOL.

Thanks for all of your help! You're like a fairy hermit godmother!

[curlysister]

Bahaha, I have been on the tundra, but now I am just on the Prairies, LOL! The winter here on the Prairies gets as cold as way up North, but thankfully doesn't last as long.
Yes, it could happen that a crab just accidentally comes across another one without meaning to. I feel really lucky, because it could have been worse than it was for sure.
I was kind of a lurker on this site for many years, and then figured that I should start posting more. I am not an expert, but have managed to keep Sonny and Cher alive and healthy for 9 years now!