Deaths-due to lighting or poisoning?

SunnyKrab · Post by **SunnyKrab** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:43 am

I find myself agreing with Luvvin' , it sure does sound like a poisoning. And an aside about the lighting idea. You need to be aware of your lights wattage as well as its footcandle potential. Crabbies enjoy the warmth of a light,however they dont realise how drying it is,and under a high wattage bulb,they can dry themselves out,and thats just not a good thing. Stick too very low wattage bulbs,ones in the 15-25 watt range for a 10 -20 gallon tank. And dont forget to monitor the temperature in the tank after lighting is installed. I had a 20 watt moon glo lamp in my 20 gallon last winter,and it helped to increase the temp by 3-4 degrees .That doesnt sound like much,but if your tank is a 10 gallon,that can translate to 5-6 degrees,and if it is already 76Â° then it may make your tank a tad to hot.

And I am also so sorry to hear of your confusing losses. I recently lost a very large E after what seemed to be a sucessful molt, and its been almost devastating. It has even kept me from enjoying the good folks here at the HCA. But I hope you can figure out what is going on in your tank soon.

Good Luck

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:47 pm

Well, from a poisoning standpoint (which I CERTAINLY hope it isn't!) I'll list everything the crabs have been fed for the past couple months:
Prepackaged crab food (a relatively new package--got it in July)
Rice and Corn Chex
Iceberg lettuce
Natural applesauce
Cuttlebone
Fresh carrot
Saltwater made w/ Doc Wellfish's aquarium salt, and freshwater, dechlorinated.
All fod has been changed daily, and crab food pellets have been crushed.
I'm not seeing anything on the list that's even remotely dangerous--the majority of their diet has been the crab food, with the other items as treats.

Just got an aquarium hood last night in anticipation of a drastic weather change (huge ice storm in Midwest), so the crabitat is now being warmed by a UTH, and two incandescent 15-watt lightbulbs in the hood, keeping my temp around 77* and humidity constant at 72%

ktm

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:07 pm

Your food list looks good with the exception of the treat corn checks...not sure if you are aware, but corn, corn meal and other legume (peas, lima beans) are not good for crabs. While I do not think that minute quantities will hurt them, there are scientific studies: look at UofFlorida under marine animals, then under hermit crabs. They indicate that corn meal in particular, since it is used as a filler in alot of reptile precessed foods, should be lower than 8% of food content. Study indicates that the starches found in them will eventually suffocate the crab as they cannot process it. Another place you can find more info is under JurrassiPet foods for Hermit crabs...they funded part of the studies involving Hermit Crabs...but as with anything I think your personal judgement comes into play...from the symtoms you described, I would not think that food poisoning is a factor...more likely the aquarium salt...(should be Ocean salt) or as previously mentioned the dechlorinator...I would recommend a specific one, but as I am in Canada I am not sure if you would have the brands I have here...best to ask someone from your home state...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:19 pm

Ooooh I just wanna scream and curse at myself now--I think not only have I possibly figured out what the problem is, I might've been causing my crablets to die!
Our house is kept between 65 and 67 degrees all winter long, and it's a struggle to keep my crabitat sufficiently warm. I've been using a 25w incandescent bulb to heat my tank 24/7, and now I'm afraid that I'd been stressing out my hermies possibly to the point of death. How could I?!? It didn't even occur to me that that could be the problem.
I got NO sleep last night--was up until 6:00 worrying about hermies and listening to them chirp. I got up a couple times, and the second time saw Ghost right as he passed on, hiding in the Cocohut on the second level. That's when it struck me--he'd hidden in that Cocohut for several days, as had Houdini and Eggplant! They were probably trying to stay away from the light! I immediately turned off the light and plugged in my UTH, threw a blanket over the crabitat and tried to go to sleep. Needless to say, I did not have good dreams after that. I woke up around 11:00 to check on the crabs, and I think they're doing somewhat better, though of course it will take some time to remedy the damage I must've done to their internal clocks. At any rate, they ate an entire little bitty piece of hamburger I'd put in, and Simon, Garfunkle and Magic were out and about. Pinchy and Jinxie are still buried somewhere in the tank, and I saw Mazda about last night when I was checking on them all, but I think he's buried under the water dish this morning.
Now, I know the cardinal rule of crabbing is to not unbury without good reason, but I'm quite concerned about my two--Pinchy and Jinxie--that I haven't seen for about a week. I'd hate to disturb them mid-molt or stress them out even more, but I feel compelled to check on them and make sure they didn't just bury to die

. Should I give it a couple days of natural light variation (i.e. 25w bulb during the day and UTH w/ blanket at night) to see if they resurface? Something tells me that's the best plan, but I'd like other feedback.
I'm just so mad at myself right now I can hardly stand it. Do you guys think that the lighting issue could've been the problem? Keep in mind that throughout it all, all other conditions were ideal.
ktm

Sheb · Post by **Sheb** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:46 pm

Mmmm.. I just really don't know Anomaly. Had you recently started using the light? Was it completely dark on them at night prior to the light being used? etc etc I've had my crabs since August of '03 and I've always kept the utility light on at night--but it's not a light that is directly over the tank so I don't know if indirect light or direct light would have caused that. What about the lettuce? What if it had been treated w/bug spray (from what I understand most produce is) maybe even after washing it--the lettuce still had some that would effect a crab??

And ONE other thing I thought about when it started leaning towards a poisoning---does anyone else handle your hermit crabs besides you? Because supposedly we are suppose to wash our hands and not let them crawl where we've applied perfume, lotion, makeup etc. Could it have been that??

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:51 pm

To answer your questions, Sheb--when I was up at school there was no heating problem, tank stayed at a nice comfy 75* w/o a UTH or heat lamp, so it's just been since I came home for the holidays--about mid December--that I've started doing anything to heat the tank. The light has always been direct--provided by an aquarium hood w/ built in light sockets.
Lettuce was from a bagged salad (no dressing, but just that stuff that's lettuce, red cabbage and shredded carrots), which I washed before giving to the crabs. I suppose it's always a possibility, but I've been feeding Simon and Garfunkle the same stuff and they've never had a problem with it. I'll try switching them to just absolutely crabbie-safe foods for a while, though.
I'm the only crab handler, except for my dad occasionally, but of course he doesn't use any perfumes or hand lotions. He and I always wash and dry our hands thoroughly before and after picking them up.
ktm

Sheb · Post by **Sheb** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:01 pm

Well if you've been using that salad for a while then that's probably not it. And since only the two of you handle the crabs then the perfume theory is out. I'm just so totally stumped--I guess I was just grasping and hoping to try to help you figure this out. I'm so sorry that you lost another crab. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you so that this will stop happening. Have we already talked about the water?? Could the tap water where you are now be causing it??

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:07 pm

light 24/6 sounds like a VERY reasonable possibility.. I know I'd get stressed if it was light all the time... Perhaps try a ceramic heater for the night? It's like a light bulb but only radiates heat... no light... Or buy a night time reptile bulb of some sort.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:08 pm

Hey thanks Sheb, and everyone else, for your all's help--I feel like all I do is shoot down theory after theory, and believe me it's as frustrating for me as it is for anyone else.

Pretty sure it's not the water, though--and here's why: I've only had between 2-8 small crabs in my 10G, and with both freshwater and saltwater bowls i really haven't gone through too much water. I always follow the directions on the dechlorinator and IO packages, and mix up the water a gallon at a time. I started out buying 2 1-gallon jugs of drinking water at Wal-Mart, treating that as needed, then using treated Kirksville (where I go to college) water and finally treated Kansas City water--Simon and Garfunkle (who I'm beginning to feel are like my "control" specimens) have been exposed to all three types: treated bottled water, treated Kirksville water and treated KC water, and are fine.

I have ONE more idea, and this is really far out there--my tank is covered so my other pets (two cats and a dog) can't get in and pester the crabs, but occasionally a pet hair or two will find its way into the tank. None of my furry animals have fleas or diseases, nor do they run around with flea medicine or anything else on--just plain ol' cats and dog. Is it possible that could have something to do with my problem? Thing is, though, that I'm sure most of us on here have furry pets, and it would be next to impossible to keep an occasional stray hair out of the tank, so I don't really see why that could be the problem--I'm just throwing it out there.

I still think it's probably my gol-durned light. Ooooh I wanna use stronger words than that, but this is a family forum.
ktm

Sheb · Post by **Sheb** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:18 pm

No I doubt it's the stray pet hair. My cat sheds BIG time and I let my crabs crawl around where she's been and never had a problem. I think that by ruling out all the other stuff and the fact that you just recently introduced the light then I guess it must be that causing the problem. But like I said it must only happen w/direct light not indirect light because my crabs don't get complete darkness at night--never have--never will but the light isn't shining right down on them all bright--it's dark in most spots of the aquarium.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:37 pm

Chestersmom wrote:...not sure if you are aware, but corn, corn meal and other legume (peas, lima beans) are not good for crabs.

Minor point. Corn is not a legume.

While I do not think that minute quantities will hurt them, there are scientific studies: look at UofFlorida under marine animals, then under hermit crabs. They indicate that corn meal in particular, since it is used as a filler in alot of reptile precessed foods, should be lower than 8% of food content. Study indicates that the starches found in them will eventually suffocate the crab as they cannot process it.

I tried to find the site you were talking about, but couldn't. Since crabs eat, rather than inhale starch, how could they suffocate from it? It would be like us eating sawdust. We can't digest that either. They would just poop it out.

I know other crabs have amylase to digest starch. Hermies probably do too, since starch is ubiquitous in the food they eat normally (fruits, leaves).

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:39 pm

well, sometimes when you can't digest certain things, you can have an alergic reaction to it which can cause you to have difficulty breathing, but that's with mammals, i dunno if it would affect crabs the same way.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:25 pm

Hi...I guess it looks like I was lumping corn in with legumes, but that was not my intent...here is what I clipped from the article at this URL http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/re ... .noaa.gov/ and this is the clip I had saved in my html folder:

corn and peas and other legumes break down into glutens, a form of sugar, that many reptiles cannot process. Gluten is considered to be deliterious material for reptiles and other gill breathing species such as the Hermit Crab....

I looked for the article, because the page has moved, the webmaster said that articles are frequently archived, I requested they deliver any articles to me archived relating to Hermit Crabs...I have been advised it will take 3-5 days for their reply...so I will post it when I get it ok!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:40 am

That site is full of it. My boyfriend cannot have gluten, but eats corn and legumes. Those things contain no gluten. They contain glucose. When those foods are broken down, they form glucose. Not gluten. I don't know where they got their info, but they're dead wrong! :roll:

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:53 am

Maybe thats why the article is no longer there! It bears looking into further...Jurrasipet food stood by this article, I think I will e-mail them for a straight answer!