Debunking the slimecoat myth

Post by **JediMasterThrash** » Fri May 11, 2007 7:10 pm

I was curious where the information about water conditioners with slimecoat or stresscoat being bad for hermies came from, so I dug into it a bit.

From my limited research, it seems to stem from rumors that keep getting passed around fish forums (whether the rumors are true or not is unknown). I tried to research some of the facts in the rumors, and the origins of the rumors, and here's my current findings:

The key rumor is that slime-coat products contain chemical irritants that cause fishes' skin to generate more slime coat. The sub-rumor is that aloe is one of these irritants.

Aloe is not the active ingredient in stress coat, and aloe does not cause skin irritation. Aloe is used to treat skin irritations and rashes, and can purportedly heal damaged tissues. Aloe has "mystical healing powers".

The slime coat enhancer in most conditioners is a natural hydrocolloid that forms an artificial pretective slime coat. The hydrocolloid is probably formed from seaweed extract or some other gelatin. All a hydrocolloid does is increse the viscosity of water, which thickens it and helps it hold moisture longer and attach to fine surfaces.

It is true that when fish's skin is irritated, it creates more slime coat. But this doesn't imply the opposite - that something that creates slime coat must irritate the skin. I've searched on several fish forums, and found lots of people passing on the rumor that stress-coat and other slimecoat protectors release irritants into the water to promote the slime coat, but none of them are backed up by facts (and I don't deny they might not be true, just that I haven't been able to locate any facts so far, just rumors).

On the other hand, I found one post that seems to make a lot more sense here:
http://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showpos ... ostcount=1

"Polymers such as what is found in Stress Coatâ„¢ can be added to the water to ease stress and temporarily protect areas on the fish where the mucus barrier has been broken. These polymers temporarily bond to exposed tissue to form a protective layer. The protective layer helps the fish maintain osmotic balance as well as protecting the fish from opportunistic pathogens"

Of the ingredients listed on slimecoat packages, none are irritants that I know of. However, it's always possible that there are unlisted ingredients, or my facts are incomplete. I encourage more research and arguments on the subject. The stress-coat package does specifically state that it creates an artificial slime coat, which backs-up my claim that it's the hydrocolloid that adds the slime coat, and that irritants are not used.

I found one reference that claims that most slime-coat products contain PVP, which they claim is an irriant.

However, I can't verify that it's in stress coat or any conditioner, and I looked up PVP (Polyvinylpyrolidone) in material safety, and most references say that it is not a primary irritant, and does not cause skin reactions in normal studies. Rather, in rare cases someone might have a reaction to it, but more along the lines of how in a rare case, someone might have an allergic reaction to latex or peanuts.

PVP-I on the otherhand (i = iodine) might be a mild irritant in animals, but I have no reference that PVP-I would be found in these products.

troppo · Post by **troppo** » Fri May 11, 2007 7:42 pm

Good thread. There's alot of thought that stress coat is an absolute no-no for hermies, and everyone's entitled to decide for themselves on this situation.
I would like to share something though, for months I've been making up fresh and salt water using a water conditioner with added stresscoat, and there have been no adverse effects at all with any of my hermies. They are all in fantastic health.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri May 11, 2007 9:50 pm

And I've read in a couple good crab care guides that stress caot is good for a bath every couple weeks

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri May 11, 2007 10:06 pm

I've heard rumor that Aloe in stresscoat can clog gills, what have you found about that?

NaRnAR · Post by **NaRnAR** » Sat May 12, 2007 3:16 am

good stuff JMT.

I also want to add that I used StressCoat for thier weekly baths for a while, Im thinking 2 years, up until I stopped bathing them and I never had any adverse effects from it.

I still wonder if the aloe in it helps our premolters kind of soften that exo...or something to that affect. You thoughts on that JMT?

troppo · Post by **troppo** » Sat May 12, 2007 3:25 am

I've wondered about the clogging gills thing too, Saucepacket

With water conditioner, only a few tiny drops are used normally to dechlorinate water, so in effect there wouldn't be great deal of aloe in the water. But it may have a cumulative effect over time, but it hasn't been proved. I think if it clogs gills, then wouldn't be unsafe for fish as well, in particular tiny fish who have tiny gills? But then again I could be off track on this.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat May 12, 2007 11:01 am

I use a dechlorinator that can also be used for stress coat, however I use the amount needed for dechlorination, which works out to be 0.5mL per 2.5L jug, so basically a few drops. This is the same dechlorinator I've always used and haven't had any problems. I can't speak to if you were using it at stress coat strength, but honestly if all a person can find is a dechlorinator that also does stress coat, it's better to dechlor your water than not. I also would like to see evidence of stress coat clogging gills, I could see it happening, but I wonder if anyone has any evidence of it happening.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat May 12, 2007 11:35 am

I was told that the aloe in Stress Coats when ingested blocked the absorption of potassium....

Post by **JediMasterThrash** » Sat May 12, 2007 12:44 pm

I doubt it would clog gills, since it's designed for fish. And we've never had a hermie suffocate after a stress-coat bath or drink.

Yes featherscrabs, I heard about the potassium-blocking too, but actually it might have just been from reading one of your posts.

Aloe does block bradykinin, which is an amino acid released with tissue injuries, which is the scientific explaination for how it relieves pain from skin problems.

Ahah! I found it. What happened is that the information about aloe as a food got mixed up with aloe as a healing gel.

The leaf lining of aloe plants does contain potassium blockers, causes dehydration, and can be used as a laxitive. BUT aloe gel (the liquid inside the leaf) is safe and is used to treat and relieve skin irritations and problems. So it is not safe for crabs to eat a full aloe plant, but the gel inside should be safe for them.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat May 12, 2007 2:06 pm

I think I had heard it from either Chestersmom or Cisnegra... not sure who I originally heard it from... so then the thing to find out would be if Stress Coat contains Aloe does it only contain the gel or is the whole plant just crushed up and seperated later ... and if it is the later would that have some effect if bits of that lining was crushed in... ?

*** I think it is great that your are looking at this and seperating myth from fact! ***

THANKS!

Post by **JediMasterThrash** » Sun May 13, 2007 12:43 pm

I'm pretty sure stress coat contains only the gel. The gel alone is what is sold in aloe-based skin care products, it's an easy ingredient to obtain. If it contained leaf parts, it would have to be marketed as a laxitive instead of a healing ointment.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun May 13, 2007 10:36 pm

sauce_packet wrote:I've heard rumor that Aloe in stresscoat can clog gills, what have you found about that?

I heard that the aloe interferes with absorption of potassium in crabs. I didn't know about the different parts of the plant, though. It would be nice to know how they harvest the gel. I haven't heard of anyone having problems with stress coat on their crabs and there are people who have used the stuff every week on their crabs they've had for 20 years. Aloe/stress coat, those appear to be a purely personal decision.

Post by **JediMasterThrash** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:02 pm

I did my tests using stress coat. Stress coat contains:

aloe vera gel (mystical healing properties)
carboxymethyl celluse (organic hydrocolloids for slime-coat)
polyvinylprrolidone (lubricant for slime-coat)
sodium thiosulfate (chlorine/chloramine removal)
elthylenediainetetraacetic acid (organic chelating agent, heavy-metal neutralizer)
tris(htdroxymethhyl)aminomethane (chloramine neutralizer)
diazolidinyl urea (anti-microbial preservative)

Dechlor-Eaze contains:

magnesium sulfate (slime coat production)
polyvinylprrolidone (PVP-30) (lubricant for slime-coat)
Sodium thiosulfate (chlorine/chloramine removal)
elthylenediainetetraacetic (EDTA) acid (heavy-metal neutralizer)
plus 3 more ingredients I haven't been able to find yet. Probably an ammonia neutralizer, gel preservative, and some sources say it also contains Aloe, but that's unconfirmed.

Someone who's better at chemistry can correct me on these.

None of these ingredients are harmful to crustaceans according to the exotixicity database.

So anyway, it's interesting to note that there is a difference. Stress coat uses carboxymethyl celluse and dechlor-eaze uses magnesium sulfate for lubrication and emulsion stabilization.