Something weird is going on in my friend's tank......

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:54 am

My friend, Dianna, who is also an avid crabber, is experiencing a lot of unexplained deaths. We just can't figure out what the problem is, though. She hasn't added any new crabs in several months, so we have ruled out a newbie bringing disease to the tank. Also her conditions appear to be stable at 80 degrees and about 83% humidity. She hasn't changed their diet, and uses the homemade kibble that I make. In addition, she has continued, as always to feed fresh foods.

It isn't just one species that is suffering here. PPs, Es, Rugs, and straws seem to all be in jeopardy. While doing a deep clean a few weeks ago, she found 15 dead. Since that time, she has had two strawberries leave their shell & die. We are at a total loss here, as to what is going on. A few of the deaths have been attributed to molting issues. Yet most of the others seem to be for some other reason.

She has been crabbing for two years, and hasn't changed the type of substrate she uses, or really anything else in the tank. No new crabs. TWO calibrated heat/humidity gages are reading correctly. A 90-gallon tank, that appears perfect on the surface, but something is going wrong.

Do you think it could just be a run of bad luck, or is could this be something else? What could be happening in her tank to cause this? She is so disgusted right now, she is threatening to give up crabbing all together.

hermiefanatic · Post by **hermiefanatic** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:03 am

i dont know but maybe somethings wrong with the fresh food. maybe it had a chemical on it. i so sorry 4 ur friend. i would be devastated.

or it could be bugs. or a chemical might have gotten in to the tank.

Kilimanjaro · Post by **Kilimanjaro** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:53 am

She sounds like her conditions are perfect. Perhaps it is just a lot of bad luck, it happens. Tell her good luck in the future!

Ellinj0206 · Post by **Ellinj0206** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:57 am

Wow! That is too sad!

I know there are some bacterias that crabbies can have and spread to eachother, that's why so many people ISO crabs that show dark spots or other things that are indicative of that. Could this have been a problem at all?

I don't think I would write it off to "bad luck" because 15 is A LOT of crabs! Is she sure that the gauges are definitely calibrated right?

Do you think she would be able to answer the basic questions about her tank that are part of the list on the boards? Maybe that could provide some insight.

When she is finding dead crabs are parts of them missing or anything indicative of a renegade "cannibal" crab?

I'm so sorry to hear about this. Maybe it's time for a major deep clean, but I think more info might be helpful.

hermietastic · Post by **hermietastic** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 12:37 pm

If it were me, I would do a MAJOR deep clean, put all the crabs in little cups, and acsess each one. I haven't had anything contagious (knock on wood) but maybe it is something just like that. How many crabs does she have now? I'm not a very expericend crabber, but I would just play it safe and really look good at each one.

I'm so sorry!

hermiefanatic · Post by **hermiefanatic** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:23 pm

maybe it was some kind of diease that eats away the crab? look at archived food and water on pg. 10 and click on the post that says crab diease\spirilina it is near the bottom. so sorry and good luck. i am confused about this mass wipe out of hermies.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:24 pm

I remember that one of the experienced crabbers here lost nearly all of her crabs once. She finally discovered that there is a bacteria in shellfish that can only be killed by cooking them. Do you think that perhaps your friend is feeding raw shrimp or other shellfish?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:36 pm

libbysmom wrote:I remember that one of the experienced crabbers here lost nearly all of her crabs once. She finally discovered that there is a bacteria in shellfish that can only be killed by cooking them. Do you think that perhaps your friend is feeding raw shrimp or other shellfish?

I would guess the answer to that is no, but I'll make sure of it. The only seafoods she feeds them, that I know of, are cooked shrimp, and the frozen cubes - krill, brine shrimp, emerald dinner, etc.

It's weird because it's not like she is losing them at a hugely alarming rate, say 1-2 a day, or even 5 a week. They are just dying off maybe 1-2 a week, and then none the next week. Almost sounds like some sort of slow-acting illness, but I'm not sure. Oddly, the fragile Indos don't seem to be effected. I have been crabbing for a while, as has Dianna, and I am clueless here.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:08 pm

The heat and humidity sound a little high--especially with crabs going naked. Are there areas where the temperature is lower (a gradient) so the crabs can move to a lower temperature if they choose? What kind of substrate is being used? What kind of saltwater?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:29 am

Like every one else, just throwing out some ideas.

Are there any vets or marine science specialists types she could contact?

Maybe she should throw away all her food just in case something is contaminated.

Can she have a soil sample done to see if there are any micro-organisms type stuff in the tank?

I would think a really deep clean, such as removing all the substrate, boiling every that can be boiled and discarding what can't would be necessary.

While it could just be a cycle things, like she's had no deaths for two years, so now it's their natural time to die doesn't make sense to me.

Another interesting thing is that she DUG up 15 deceased crabs. Why were they down? Would it be considered a normal trait for them or would it be an unusual occurrence?

Boy, I know we all wish her the best of luck. Tell your friend to hang in and maybe she'll discover something that will help other hermies in the future!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:59 am

has the tat been changed lately,ie as in an upgrade to larger or still the same tat used for 2 yrs,also this is reaching far are there any chemicals old batteries open paint cans or anything of the sorts in the house near the return airs of the furnace or a/c that could be recirculated in the house. hope you solve the problem good luck:)

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:51 am

ONe time I had a mass death happen in a span of 3 weeks. I lost everyone in one tank. We found out that just behind the tank had been sprayed for black widows. It was outside of the wall, but wherever they sprayed, things died...our silkworms & our hermit crabs and the teacher next door lost her fiddler crabs. (My crabs have lived in my former classroom all of their lives)

What I would do in a case like this is get rid of everything. 15 deaths is devastating.

It sounds wasteful, but at this point we don't know what we are looking at.

Actually this is how I started using Eco Earth. When I had the mass deaths (not quite 15 but all of my straws & indos and 2 jumbo pps) I emptied every single tank. I was afraid it was an illness so all of the calci sand got dumped and beach sand. (Which i refuse to use beach/play sand)

I scrbbed the tanks with vinegar and baking soda rinsed for a very long time and let the tanks sit in the sun to dry.

The EE is pretty cheap and easy to move if there needs to be more than one deep clean and in a more frequent fashion.

I'm so sorry this is happening to both you and your friend...

But especially to the little crabs.

ONe thing, does it seem to be the molting process that is killing them? I addressed if there is something gone awry in the tank...

Post by **JediMasterThrash** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:20 pm

I've had a few cases of relatively large-scale deaths.

The first was due to too high humidity when I got a bunch of new crabs. This was before developing a proper ISO method. Threw 20 new crabs into 85% humidity with no air circulation, and 8 died.

The second was due to poor water quality. I had large pools of aerated water, but I wasn't fully cleaning them out often enough, only doing partial cleans. But the water quality decreased very rapidly due to enormous amounts of eco earth and crab noodles mucking up the water faster than it could be cleaned or controlled. I lost almost all my straws and most of my largest crabs.

The third time was due to a vent near the crab tank that I had closed, but at night when the cold air came on it was opening up anyway (and then re-closing when the air shut off), so the ISO tank was dropping to the 60s/50s for an hour every night, and I lost about 6 of 20 crabs.

These issues all happened on the order of 1 or 2 crabs a week. So it wasn't like they all died instantly, it was more like you're describing. So I suspect it to be some kind of environmental issue. Either water quality or air quality related.

How long as it been since a deep clean, and what kind of substrate is it? I've had previous cases where I let my tank go past my usual 6 months, and established crabs started slowly dying, probably from ammonia build-up in the soil. Also, the fact that I have 150 pounds worth of substrate might make the 6 months number, a smaller tank might need cleaning more often. But since I switched to partial substrate changes, I've gone a year without problems now.

Then there's toxin build-up, which can take up to 2 years and a few molts to take effect. Heavy metals and our favorite preservatives fall into this category. If there's anything funny in the water (what's the water source and treatment?) it could be on the order of 2 years to have an effect.

Just some thoughts on my end. I think these things always have an explaination, sometimes it just takes a while to figure out what it is.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:42 pm

JMT, is it safer then to use bottled spring water in order to avoid heavy metal contamination?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:45 pm

Oh! Environmental contamination made me think of those froxen krill she uses. I'm betting that the krill etc. come from China. Can you check? I read about the horribly contaminated farmed fish and seafoods coming from China, and tossed out all my dried krill. I finally found a brand which says it is a product of the US. I've become more than paranoid about the quality of any foods from China after a friend of mine lost her two beautiful show collies in one week. One of the bitches was due to be bred for the first time, and it was just a horrible thing to hear about these dogs dying in such a horrible way.

HCA: Hermit Crab Association

Something weird is going on in my friend's tank......

Something weird is going on in my friend's tank......

a quick questiom or two