I bought a patriot crab (pictures enclosed)

For discussion and photos of all of the non-hermit crab pets we hold dear, including other crab species.
User avatar

Topic author
NotaMallard
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:39 pm
Location: Indiana

I bought a patriot crab (pictures enclosed)

Post by NotaMallard » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:31 pm

I was at my local pet store. In their invertebrate section I saw this absolutely gorgeous crab. The next day, after doing my research and setting a 'tat up, I went back and bought him today. I've named him Uncle Sam.

Oh, one more thing: MudCrabDude, or anyone else who is as obsessed with non hermit crabs, do you have any advice, tips, or suggestions?
I was wondering if his water should be fresh or brackish. The only places online I could find mentioned that it didn't matter whether it was fresh or brackish, but I'd like a second opinion. Also, they're complete scavengers, right? Should I feed him a mostly fish diet, or can he snack on whatever the hermies are having?

Image
Image
I've got a zoo in my house. I should charge admission.


MudCrabDude

Post by MudCrabDude » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:03 pm

Pretty cool! 8)

Here's the official cursory info for them I can scrounge up:
18. Cardisoma armatum Herklots, 185 1
COLOR: Young, newly molted individuals with violaceous carapace; tips
of chelae and walking legs bright red; with age and approach to molt carapace
turns dirty yellow with occasionally slight reddish spots dorsally.
DISTRIBUTION: Western coast of Africa from St. Louis to Baia dos
Tigres, Angola, Africa and Cape Verde Islands.
HABITAT: Moist sandy areas above the mean high tide level; mangroves,
mouth of rivers, under houses, in cultivated areas adjacent to permanent
sources of brackish or sea water; and inland areas of larger islands.
HABITS: Youngest juveniles are in small depressions or newly dug
shallow burrows directly adjacent to water; older juveniles found in smaller
compartments within the burrows of adults. Adults construct deep burrows,
and often these are part of a large colony where the burrows intersect. Adults construct
burrows of varying depth and structural complexity, depending upon their
age and the location of the burrow with respect to available ground water. Both
juveniles and adults are nocturnal scavengers, often moving considerable
distance from their burrows to feed on palmnuts, coconuts, dead fish and
scraps of vegetation. Spawning activities have not been recorded in the
literature for this species.
COMMON NAME: Edible land crab.
REFERENCES: Barnard, 1950 (D,T) ; Cheesman, 1922 (B), 1923 (B) ;
Dalziel, 1920 (D); Rathbun, 1921 (D,T) ; Wanson, 1935 (D).
From: A SYNOPSIS OF THE BURROWING
LAND CRABS OF THE WORLD and LIST
OF THEIR ARTHROPOD SYMBIONTS
AND BURROW ASSOCIATES

By DONALD B. BRIGHT AND CHARLES L. HOGUE

For patriot crabs, since it is a bit difficult to maintain deep burrows that intersect the water table for most typical hobbyists' tanks, the simplest but best way to keep them is to keep one per tank (they can be pretty aggressive towards each other).

Then the tank set up should be of smooth gravel (yep, gravel), but setup so it's sloping - something like this (sorry for the crude drawing:)

Image

The tank you have right now would be fine temporarily, but eventually I would make the switch to the smooth gravel type setup. (On a side note, the tank you have right now is actually recommended for Halloween crabs, like mine, but not for Patriot crabs for long term keeping.) Patriot crabs will need to immerse themselves in water for molts, something that the land hermit and land Halloween crabs do not need to do. The crab will also end up digging out the sand, attempting to dig down to try to find a nonexistent water table and generally making a swampy mess of the sand setup - a gravel setup would be somewhat easier to maintain for the home tank.

For the water, I'd make it brackish, as I've had one molt with me in the brackish water part of my aquarium in the water (unlike land hermit and land Halloween crabs, Patriot crabs need to molt in the water). I'd make the specific gravity around 1.010-1.020 and the pH about 7.5-8.2.

You can put an airstone or a small sponge filter in the water part of the tank to keep it aerated or filtered.

For food, they are known to be scavengers, so they can be fed the same food you are feeding the land hermit crabs, but their main diet is composed of leaf litter, so unlike land hermit crabs, you may need to add more leafy greens to their diet - like spinach leaves, for example. I would also provide cuttlebone as well.

Here's a pic from a German website of one of the armatum tanks:

http://www.panzerwelten.de/v/Cardisoma/ ... 6.jpg.html

User avatar

Kilimanjaro
Posts: 898
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:47 pm
Contact:

Post by Kilimanjaro » Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:58 pm

What a cool crab! :glasses2:

MudCrabDude wrote:COMMON NAME: Edible land crab.
:confused: I hope you won't eat him, Nota! :lol:

:wink:


MudCrabDude

Post by MudCrabDude » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:59 pm

Yah, that part I almost overlooked. :lol:

And this part as well:
with age and approach to molt carapace
turns dirty yellow with occasionally slight reddish spots dorsally.
So it's going to look as if it will look like your typical Caribbean/South Florida land crab as well once bigger (and they can supposedly grow with a clawspan of over a foot, if not more - like their Caribbean cousins). Neat. :)

User avatar

Topic author
NotaMallard
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:39 pm
Location: Indiana

Post by NotaMallard » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:29 am

Thank you SO much, MudCrabDude! None of the sites I visited mentioned that. I'll buy some gravel next time I'm out. Roughly how deep would it need to be? Twice as deep as him, like with hermies?
How long do you expect him to live? I've read "about five years," but seeing as the same site apparently misinformed me about other things I'm guessing they may not be right.
I've got a zoo in my house. I should charge admission.


Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:03 pm

Are they mixible with hermies? :roll:

User avatar

Big MaC
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:00 am
Location: Chicago, "JR"

Post by Big MaC » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:04 pm

I was JUST going to ask that, and are fiddlers mixable with hermies? say 2 fiddlers and 3 PP's?
★Rescuer of Illinois Crabs★ Has 21 in a 95gw tank★
*If you ever need help I will help you to the best of my abilitys and if I can no longer be of assistance I will find someone who can be for you*
<3 The Hermies Want YOU To Help Them <3

User avatar

Spiral
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:48 am
Location: sHELL

Post by Spiral » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:05 pm

No, they are too big. :(
Semi-active
Keeping C.Brevimanus "C.Purpureus" C.Rugosus C.Scaevola C.Perlatus C.Pseudorugosus C.???

User avatar

Big MaC
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:00 am
Location: Chicago, "JR"

Post by Big MaC » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:10 pm

are fiddlers too big too?
★Rescuer of Illinois Crabs★ Has 21 in a 95gw tank★
*If you ever need help I will help you to the best of my abilitys and if I can no longer be of assistance I will find someone who can be for you*
<3 The Hermies Want YOU To Help Them <3


Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:22 pm

I remember some time back when someone posted their success at getting the fiddlers and hermies to live together. You might need to ask around for more information on that. :)


MudCrabDude

Post by MudCrabDude » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:46 pm

NotaMallard wrote:Thank you SO much, MudCrabDude! None of the sites I visited mentioned that. I'll buy some gravel next time I'm out. Roughly how deep would it need to be? Twice as deep as him, like with hermies?
How long do you expect him to live? I've read "about five years," but seeing as the same site apparently misinformed me about other things I'm guessing they may not be right.
As for the gravel, the gravel should be high enough that it allows the water area to be deep enough for the whole crab to dip himself into while molting. This will also change over time as the crab grows. :D

The crab may also try to rearrange the gravel slope - you can easily re-slope the gravel back if you have a spare plastic spatula on hand. Or you can even use some plastic decor used for the red eared slider turtle-terrapins and use the plastic rocks or something. ;)

One recorded lifespan was of a similar Cardisoma in a laboratory was of a female being kept for 13 years! :)

Keep in mind, though, that they can grow kinda big - much bigger than my Gecarcinus/Halloween crabs...:shock:...and will eventually lose their "Patriot" colors....:( But that's for a long time, so no worries, yet...;)
Spiral wrote:Kind of off topic but... Mud crabs are yummy!
Yep, the Scylla sp. crabs. 8) Very much so...I like to keep some in the aquarium...then eat the rest...chili style!..BWAHAHAHAHAHA....:D ;)


seekheng wrote:Are they mixible with hermies? :roll:
I've seen them mixed in Underwater World in Singapore when I went there in Jan. 2007 (my lo-quality photo :D):

Image

and you can see pics of them mingling in the wild (photo taken from the internet of Cardisoma/Discoplax with some strawberry land hermit crabs)-

Image

But unless you have a house-sized enclosure and meters deep of substrate that can cross into groundwater, I wouldn't trust them in your average sized large tank for the long term - eventually during molting, the very agile Cardisoma or Gecarcinus crabs will most likely try to eat their Coenobita tankmates or even their fellow Cardisomas/Gecarcinus.

Personally, I even have my own Gecarcinus land crabs separate due to the size restraints of my living space, money, tank availability,etc.....:)
Last edited by MudCrabDude on Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar

Big MaC
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:00 am
Location: Chicago, "JR"

Post by Big MaC » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:50 pm

What are the requirments for a fiddler?
★Rescuer of Illinois Crabs★ Has 21 in a 95gw tank★
*If you ever need help I will help you to the best of my abilitys and if I can no longer be of assistance I will find someone who can be for you*
<3 The Hermies Want YOU To Help Them <3


MudCrabDude

Post by MudCrabDude » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:56 pm

Big MaC wrote:What are the requirments for a fiddler?
Check out this webpage:

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/brackish/brackish.html

And scroll down to "Set up #3: Mangrove Swamp" :)

User avatar

Topic author
NotaMallard
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:39 pm
Location: Indiana

Post by NotaMallard » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:32 am

Alright. Again, thank you for all of this info! I guess I'm deeper into this than I planned. I was prepared for a relatively small sized crab for only a few years. But hey, this is fine too.
He's done a lot of digging lately, and ravenously destroyed some salmon I put in there. But boy is he skittish! I've seen him out a few times, but as soon as he noticed me he darted quicker than I could imagine.
I've got a zoo in my house. I should charge admission.

User avatar

Julia Coenobita
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:00 am
Location: MA, USA
Contact:

Post by Julia Coenobita » Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:47 pm

Fiddler crabs need a slope-with-water landscape in their 'tat, and higher humidity than land hermit crabs.
*Julia Coenobita- Crabbing Since 6/3/06*
PPs: Amethyst, Chrysoprase
Es: Apollo

Locked