New species of coenobita found in ELHC

Dog Lips · Post by **Dog Lips** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:21 pm

Crabola wrote:I'm quite taken aback by the animosity as well. I haven't heard one negative thing regarding the crabs people have received or about the way he keeps them, in fact everything I've heard seems to be very positive save perhaps a complaint or two about the timeliness in responding to an occasional email voiced in this thread.

Could we all perhaps hold our fire unless we have something worse than that to go on :roll: I mean, we are all here because we care about hermit crabs, are we not?

Given our proximity to Delaware, I had chatted with another forum member about us taking a road trip down there a while back and we were looking forward to going and seeing some really interesting crabs that we had never seen before and talking crabs with Bob who by all accounts sounds like a knowledgeable crab enthusiast.

We still hope to do that, all though if Bob sees this thread for all I know he may decide to not let us come... and I wouldn't blame him, I think some people have been very critical and for no valid reason that I can see. And if it gives all HCA'ers a bad name, I wouldn't be surprised.

I agree, except with the last bit. It's only a group of people bagging on ELHC. A bunch are defending them.

oh and on a sadder not

We ship our Live Land Hermit Crabs Monday through Wednesday using UPS NEXT DAY AIR SERVICE (Signature Required) to US Destinations only

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:38 pm

I certainly hope it won't be the case that Bob tells us to bug off, no HCA members allowed

And I know that some people have not been on the attack and have even defended ELHC, but it's sad to me that it would even be necessary.

Why can't people who have questions just ask them in a "nice" way, crab enthusiast to crab enthusiast?

suebee · Post by **suebee** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:05 pm

wow. No one has received dead crabs from him like other places, Ive yet to hear that anyone who has ordered from him has been unhappy, and he has answered questions that have helped many of us out.

What has he done wrong? who are we to question him? Many of the food sellers wont give you the ingredients of what is in there special blend and yet some of us here will still buy it.
Trade secrets are what makes a business. When they get let out then the business is copied. Ask cocoa cola to give a trade secret.

Im sure he can not do all the importing him self and by making many adds he can weed out the trashy ones that do not care about the crabs like he does and only deal with the best.
Just like the stores we all know there are so many trashy importers who have no idea what the crabs need.

He is doing his best to help educate us and others as well as make some of the exotics available to those of us who would love expand our knowledge and learn about more types of crabs.

Innocent until proven guilty?

I hope this doesnt discourage him. My opinion is sit back and wait to see if any complaints come up. Give him breathing room. Maybe when he feels he is not being chastised he will be willing to give more info.
The web sight is not about the new species, its about his business. Im sure that eventually there will be lots of info about the new species supplied but maybe not on his web sight. Its really not the place for detailed information on how he came about it or the DNA results.
It is however a great place to put a bit about the news of the new species so we can congratulate the finder.
Im sure there are journals and such with all the details, they may not be offered up for everyone to see.
In my opinion he would not have announced the new species unless he had the information to back it up.

Before we take on this person, lets take on the ones we know are shipping crabs incorrectly that arrive dead. Lets take on places we know the conditions are not correct before we speculate on a place we do not know about.

Activism can be a great thing when its properly done. Sometimes a place needs to be shut down, sometimes they just need the education that importers do not know or give.
I have spoke with Bob and find him very knowledgeable. He knows his crabs and I think he will be a asset to the importing of them as well as giving out the proper knowledge to keep them.

He is overwhelmed at this point with emails and such. Im sure he is weeding out the emails that need help now and the ones that are just out to question him can wait.
I would do the same. take care of the important ones first.
Those that need help will get it and those that are just looking to chastise or question the business will wait.

All of my emails regarding my crabs have been answered with Timely wonderful information.

I for one will be open minded until otherwise questioned by some thing ive heard gone wrong.

I also would love to see the shop and hope that belonging to this group doesnt hinder that.

kgbenson · Post by **kgbenson** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:35 pm

suebee wrote:wow. No one has received dead crabs from him like other places, Ive yet to hear that anyone who has ordered from him has been unhappy, and he has answered questions that have helped many of us out.

Yep.

What has he done wrong?

He is new and brought a little change?

who are we to question him?

I have no problem with questioning someone, just making judgments before one gets the answers.

Many of the food sellers wont give you the ingredients of what is in there special blend and yet some of us here will still buy it.

Indeed there is a large notice about "espionage" on the crab addiction website with respect to their formulas/recipes.

He is doing his best to help educate us and others as well as make some of the exotics available to those of us who would love expand our knowledge and learn about more types of crabs.

And he has been ill.

I hope this doesn't discourage him.

I doubt it - after all, having the animals he does for as long as he has certainly is not mainstream. There are so many hoops one would have to jump through to get say, permission to import variabilis that I cannot imagine it being accomplished by someone without a certain level of tenacity,

Before we take on this person, lets take on the ones we know are shipping crabs incorrectly that arrive dead. Lets take on places we know the conditions are not correct before we speculate on a place we do not know about.

What an interesting idea. I second that motion. I would certainly not want to be any part of any "we" that "took on" anyone based on the things that the anger I see here is based on. But then I tend to like to put my cart behind my horse. Call me funny.
I agree with suebee - write to him or call him with a genuine interest and I am sure you will be answered. Call or write demanding justifications and explanations for whatever you perceive to be an issue (without knowing if it is or not) and I wouldn't be surprised if you weren't met with the most open of receptions. I would ignore anyone who seemed to be itching to find fault. Now some folks might feel that they could never have come off that way - but if what they write here is any indication, they may well have.

Keith

MacandHunter · Post by **MacandHunter** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:31 pm

Call or write demanding justifications and explanations for whatever you perceive to be an issue (without knowing if it is or not) and I wouldn't be surprised if you weren't met with the most open of receptions. I would ignore anyone who seemed to be itching to find fault. Now some folks might feel that they could never have come off that way - but if what they write here is any indication, they may well have.

So you're telling me whenever a store gets someone who might be a little angry at them, they can simply just ignore that person? How would we like it if this happened every time we wrote to a bad petstore? No reply back at all? That's silly.

And I also want to add that this website is not the site with the most folks who actually question this species thing.

The amount of assumption that everything is just fine and dandy and there is loads of research and information on this species elsewhere that may not be out there for us all to see is just silly.

If TCP offered a "new" species for sale on their website without any information about it at all would be getting the same reaction.

Oh, can anyone tell me how is mother and extended family is doing? He still hasn't replied back to my mail. Maybe he is a Stevie fan. In that case I take back all of my posts. But, I wouldn't know because he hasn't told me his musical tastes either.

sugarselections · Post by **sugarselections** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:41 pm

MacandHunter wrote:So you're telling me whenever a store gets someone who might be a little angry at them, they can simply just ignore that person?

Yes. The best part of owning your own business is that you can choose how to respond (if at all) to all inquiries. Personally, I don't respond to people who are rude to me. I choose not to deal with bad attitudes. It makes my life so much nicer.

MacandHunter · Post by **MacandHunter** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:43 pm

sugarselections wrote: Yes. The best part of owning your own business is that you can choose how to respond (if at all) to all inquiries. Personally, I don't respond to people who are rude to me. I choose not to deal with bad attitudes. It makes my life so much nicer.

I wasn't rude, and when we write letters to a petstore we don't like, most of us here aren't rude either. But we aren't happy. That's the type of mail was talking about. I'm a potential customer, aren't I?

sugarselections · Post by **sugarselections** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:57 pm

MacandHunter wrote:I wasn't rude, and when we write letters to a petstore we don't like, most of us here aren't rude either. But we aren't happy. That's the type of mail was talking about. I'm a potential customer, aren't I?

The owner of ELHC owes you nothing. That's what you don't seem to get. Maybe he just doesn't want your business or maybe he's too busy with personal or business concerns right now to return your email. It's been established that he's more than willing to "talk crabs" with several members of this forum. The reason he hasn't responded to you is his own and he has every right to refuse you service if he so chooses. From speaking to him, I certainly know that he wouldn't have hesitated to refuse to sell me crabs if he didn't approve of my crabitat and level of care.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:02 pm

So you weren't rude, that's good

But the tone of your email wasn't happy... why? Why unhappy? I haven't heard any accounts of ELHC abusing crabs the way pet stores do so I have to say it's an apples to oranges comparison.

I still don't understand why your inquiry email couldn't have been friendly

Ya catch more flies with sugar... etc.

Sue and I are trying to nail down a day that we can try to go down there, combined with an adoption run to pick up 5 PP's which is along the way. As I said, if he lets us come we will let everyone know what we see as objective, open minded, potential customers.

MacandHunter · Post by **MacandHunter** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:03 pm

sugarselections wrote: The owner of ELHC owes you nothing. That's what you don't seem to get. Maybe he just doesn't want your business or maybe he's too busy with personal or business concerns right now to return your email. It's been established that he's more than willing to "talk crabs" with several members of this forum. The reason he hasn't responded to you is his own and he has every right to refuse you service if he so chooses. From speaking to him, I certainly know that he wouldn't have hesitated to refuse to sell me crabs if he didn't approve of my crabitat and level of care.

You're right. I'm a horrible person that doesn't deserve 10 minutes of his time to reply to me with a e-mail. :roll: It's just poor business practices. If he is so busy he should have a notice on his site saying that he is really busy and reply times to questions will be delayed/on hold. If you think ignoring someone who asked a question with a normal tone/wording, is the right thing to do, then I don't know what else to say to you.

I just told him I had never heard of this species, and would like more information about it.

kgbenson · Post by **kgbenson** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:03 pm

MacandHunter wrote: So you're telling me whenever a store gets someone who might be a little angry at them, they can simply just ignore that person? How would we like it if this happened every time we wrote to a bad petstore? No reply back at all? That's silly.

It would be silly - If I had said that. Were you mad at ELHC prior to sending your email?

And I also want to add that this website is not the site with the most folks who actually question this species thing.

I haven't bothered to add up the posts, but you may be right. And?

The amount of assumption that everything is just fine and dandy and there is loads of research and information on this species elsewhere that may not be out there for us all to see is just silly.

You would be right - if that was the case. No one said there is loads of information out there on this species, at least you didn't hear that from me. I have heard Bob's reasoning and I have stated that it would not surprise me if it were another species, but I too would wait for a publication before I accepted it as a fact. I think suggesting that everyone is skipping through the lillies here and accept that everything is hunky dory without any evidence is, well, silly.

If TCP offered a "new" species for sale on their website without any information about it at all would be getting the same reaction.

There is no way to know but I would bet you dollars to donuts that it would be a more measured response.

Oh, can anyone tell me how is mother and extended family is doing? He still hasn't replied back to my mail. Maybe he is a Stevie fan. In that case I take back all of my posts. But, I wouldn't know because he hasn't told me his musical tastes either.

Not sure what you are getting at, but you certainly seem like an angry guy. Take a break, pull up a chair and watch the crabs. It can be so relaxing.

Keith

PS: Here is something to think about. Are you sure he got the email? Was it nice? If it was a congenial request to share info you might hit re-send. Of course you might also just call him.

sugarselections · Post by **sugarselections** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:14 pm

MacandHunter wrote:You're right. I'm a horrible person that doesn't deserve 10 minutes of his time to reply to me with a e-mail. :roll: It's just poor business practices. If he is so busy he should have a notice on his site saying that he is really busy and reply times to questions will be delayed/on hold. If you think ignoring someone who asked a question with a normal tone/wording, is the right thing to do, then I don't know what else to say to you.

I just told him I had never heard of this species, and would like more information about it.

Without the benefit of seeing the exact email you sent to ELHC, we have no way of knowing what kind of attitude you had. If you used the same tone in your email that you have in this thread, I certainly wouldn't have responded to you. Maybe you just don't understand how angry and bitter you come off.

It seems like you've decided to be angry with ELHC no matter what the evidence of their business practices (or lack thereof in certain areas). If you choose to be that kind of person, I'm betting that nothing anyone here at HCA says or anything Bob says will change your mind.

kgbenson · Post by **kgbenson** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:19 pm

MacandHunter wrote: I wasn't rude, and when we write letters to a petstore we don't like, most of us here aren't rude either. But we aren't happy. That's the type of mail was talking about. I'm a potential customer, aren't I?

So basically you were initiating contact with something negative. Yep - that will get you off on a good foot every time. :roll: You decided you were not happy before ever speaking to anyone there.

Might I suggest that you call and ask because you are curious (if you really are) and not because you are feeling like it is your duty to investigate - I can't say that is really how you feel, but it is how you come off.

As to the unspoken assertion that because you are a potential customer you get to be anything but very nice, sorry, that dog won't hunt. You get more bees with honey . . . and it's true.

Keith

NaRnAR · Post by **NaRnAR** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:37 pm

Its nice to know this whole thing has gone way off topic..and is now lets psychoanalyze Mac and his "email".

In your comment about accepting something as a fact, KG, well it seems like this new species has already been accepted as a fact as its being sold as so. ...and with no evidence that it is indeed a new species. Again, Im thinking you cant present something as fact with out backing it up...especially a new species.

I also ran my own business and had angry people on occasion. You cant ignore them, no matter how much you want to, because if you want to be an upstanding business you take all the garbage that comes your way and find a way to deal with it, even if it means wearing your "happy email tone" while you grind your teeth and silently cuss the person out. News travels fast....and new of bad business travels even faster. If you want to be a good business you learn to deal no matter how stressed out you get. And if there are personal or family matters to be dealt with perhaps he should have put a note on his site saying he was not going to be resonding to inquiries from --- to ----....another pet peeve of mine, you must let your customers know you wont be able to correspond with them, or it really does look like youre ignoring them. Not good....I dont care how many live crabs people have received.

And on the topic of hiding information...Im sorry that "behavior" is rather insecure. If your going to have a product and your going to sell said product, your customers have every right to know what it is and whats going into it...or the background of said product.

kgbenson · Post by **kgbenson** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:37 pm

MacandHunter wrote: You're right. I'm a horrible person that doesn't deserve 10 minutes of his time to reply to me with a e-mail.

Such Drama. No one said you are horrible. A bit testy and certainly angry, but not horrible.

:roll: It's just poor business practices.

From a particular point of view, sure. From another, not so much. Perhaps you are making assumptions about why he started the business.

If he is so busy he should have a notice on his site saying that he is really busy and reply times to questions will be delayed/on hold.

Are you sure he got the email?

If you think ignoring someone who asked a question with a normal tone/wording, is the right thing to do, then I don't know what else to say to you.

Once again - no one said that. Perhaps you might consider making fewer assumptions? Just a thought. And I believe you already stated that the letter was unhappy. I would not call that a normal tone if all you are really doing is seeking information. If you are grinding and axe sure, but not if you are simply fact finding.

I just told him I had never heard of this species, and would like more information about it.

I have no idea how you asked, I have no idea if he got it and I have no idea why he has not responded, but your tone here is fairly combative, and somewhat demanding. If that was the first time I had any contact with you, I might choose to round file. AS it is I have read some perfectly nice, cogent things you have written, so I am not having much of a reaction.

I am not sure what the point of this thread is any longer. Some folks have had a good experience buying from ELHC. A few folks have had difficulty communicating with ELHC, if one were to call a single email a serious attempt to communicate, in the end time will tell whose impression is more representative of working with the ELHC people. I don't think you will be happy unless he emails you back, I have no idea if he can or will. I am beginning to suspect you will do nothing further to pursue an answer to your concerns. In fact I get the impression that there is almost nothing he could say that someone here won't make an issue out of. So what's left to discuss?

Me, I think I will just go watch my colorful, healthy (and in some cases humongous) hermit crabs.

Keith